Help! Advice needed I'm desperate...

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jessikaGinger

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This is going to be long...Very long

Bought a 13.2 chestnut mare 5yro in 2010 (now 7yro)
Sorry state, underweight, worms, Nervous..but bombproof to ride

Fast forward to june 2011 she pops out a foal which was weaned at christmas

I brought her back into work and she was great bombproof steady hack (quite green)

i started bringing her on with more and more schooling

I Rode her on the thursday and she was great, rode her friday she was bucking every time i put my leg on/ asked her to do anything
When i touched her hind or stomach she flinched slightly - even when brushing
This was at the start of summer
She also mounted a few horses around this time

i got the vet out, did a bute trial with 2 weeks box rest still same reaction
Vet checked for lameness - fine
she did a poo sample for ulcers - clear

So we tried physio - she was tight but nothing too worrying
Teeth - perfect
Saddle - not a problem

had her ovaries checked - one was large but she had just been in season
he took bloods - fine
So he gave me 'Calmex' and said if it is hormonal that will help but he thinks its behavioural
she has been on calmex 2 weeks and for the first week she seemed to be her old self plodding along not sensitive to touch although still Evil with other horses
Yesterday she was a bucking broncking loony
Same again today - if i tell her off it makes no difference, if i ignore her it makes no difference

I really have no idea what to try next? suggestions please
 
What is she like lunging/long reining? Is it def just a sensitivity thing? I've seen a couple of mares with these symptoms. 1 had over active overies and was compeltely fine on regemate (a course of regemate would be my next try in your shoes). One ended but being diagnosed with spavins in her hocks and one was found to have her pervis out, thought after having foal young and under developed. Maybe things to look into.
 
I haven't tried, mainly because I only really have the road to ride on and if she does buck me off it will hurt...a lot! I'm willing to try mind
 
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. But aren't ulcers diagnosed by scoping? not testing poo samples?

I would be wanting back x-rayed to rule out Kissing Spines.
 
If ulcers are suspected scoping will be required to either find them or rule them out, testing dung samples is not going to tell you. Ask your vet if he can do this and also a bute trial while she is in work, not on box rest, to rule out pain.
Hormonal stallion type behaviour can be addressed by using drugs such as regumate which your vet can supply and could help.

I remember some time ago she was not going properly on the lunge and looked as if she had no idea what she was meant to do and was definitely unhappy in canter at that time. She may have been a good hack but not had any basic work put in before someone just got on and rode her, often a weak young pony can be got on and ridden with no problem, go past scary things because they just take it in their stride, no energy or strength to do otherwise, she has now got fitter and healthy, possibly with some chestnut mare attitude thrown in to the mix and is challenging what she does not really understand.

If there is no underlying physical issue, can you get help to go properly back to basics, longreining, lunging, rebacking but making sure she really understands what is required, do not move on to the next stage until she is really confident.
 
My 5 year old has started being a pain, bucking, leaping, just being a hooligan really and looking back she was the same this time last year so maybe it is just the time of year to bring out the worse in them. I have had her teeth done and her back is being checked tomorrow, but I actually think she is just being naughty.
She sounds very much like yours as if you do tell her off she stops but only until the next opportunity to do it again. I put it down to her breeding as her grandfather is very 'quirky'.
I also hope she grows out of it all.

You have done all the checks possible. Maybe turn away for a few weeks for her to unwind before it turns into a habit and then try again slowly??
 
I don't have any personal experience of this but last year (or early this year, can't remember now), a lady I used to work with was having these similar problems with their previously lovely pony they bought for their daughter a couple of years before. She sstarted but not wanting to be groomed and it escalated to her ending up being unrideable. They had the same tests done as you have said and tried various treatments but none really worked. The vet shockingly said she should be PTS but this mare, like yours was only young and had previously been a saint.

Anyhow, she was determind to try all she could and changed to a different vet. It jsut happened by chance a friend of hers mentioned she's had a similar situation with a pony turning aggressive etc and said it had been discovered she was deficient in a particular mineral. I believe it was magnesium. Anyway, the lady put pony on this recommended supplement and within a very short space of time she had back the genuine safe pony they knew. Someone who knew about the condition likened said basically the horse becomes hypersensitive and any light touch to the skin is painful - must be horrid for the poor animal.

This pony has since been sold as the daughter has grown out of her. The new owners are fully aware she must be kept on this supplement. Something simple though has made such a difference.

It may be worthwhile looking in to it as the symptoms you describe sound awfully similar.
 
About to loose one from ulcers and an unknown problem - get her scoped!

poo samples cannot diagnose ulcers... scoping does.



dont hang about either - mines 6.
 
I did mention scoping and he pretty much ignored the fact I'd said anything, I am waiting for a call back so I will ask again! I'm not sure about season as she's been like this all summer.. I'm only asking her to walk on or move over and she bucks not anything she doesn't already know
 
Several things spring to mind;
1. get an equine specialist vet who knows what he's doing - yours has just charged you for a test which was never going to tell you anything.
2. look carefully at her diet. Have you been feeding her anything different recently? Even if not make sure that nothing she is eating, including supplements, has any cereal, molasses or alfalfa in it - all these ingredients can make susceptible horses very uncomfortable and cause behaviour similar to that which you describe.
3. get her saddle checked - has she changed shape recently for any reason?
 
The vet I use is a equine vet who is highly recommended on here
She is fed apple Chaffee only to mix her calmex into
Her saddles been checked twice and it's not a problem :/
 
Little update - I've decided to sell ginger..
The vet is still saying its behaviour so I have to believe him.. He's the expert.
If it is the fact she's confused and needs re- schooling then she would most certainly benefit from an experienced owner who unlike myself has the time and facilities to do this!
I'm not in a rush to sell her as she means everything to our family but its for the best
 
Could it be the feed? if you are keeping her while you try to sell its worth having a tinker with the diet excluding certain things maybe?
 
The problems started before she had a feed she was on grass and hay she only gets feed to mix her calmex into
As I only have weekends to ride its a bit of a waiting game
She is fed apple chaff 1 scoop of garlic and magnesium and half a sachet of calmex
 
If you are only riding at the weekends perhaps she just needs much more exercise - How about getting a sharer for her who can ride her during the week & see if this helps..
Its very hard to nip things like this in the bud - consistency is needed.
 
Its a tricky one but I would hold out for a sharer! as TBH you probably won't get much for her at the moment & if it was me if it definately is behaviour related would be worried about her being passed from pillar to post...
 
It would be better for her in the long run if you get to the bottom of what's going on - try her on a magnesium supplement in the mean time to see if that's behind it, doesn't cost much and it won't hurt your pocket or her.
Personally, to me it feels wrong to pass on a problem to someone else as long as you make them aware, otherwise this could or will come back to haunt you and you could be back to square one :(
 
She already is on magnesium and so far no change at all
I'm 200% sure it's pain as even the slightest touch from my leg she bucks..
I've rang the vets for the 3rd day running and still no call back! I feeling like filing a complaint
 
Finally had a response from the vet... He doesn't know what to do!!!!! My insurance basically said while ever the vet thinks its behaviour I'm not covered, however the vet doesn't know if it is or not! My next step would be to get her up for bone scans and scoping for ulcers but this is likely to cost a thousand pounds but if she isn't covered I can not afford it...
Really at a loss of what to do I got on her last night she was tense had her back up the minute my leg made contact with her she bucked this was only walking.. And she was covered in sweat!
Considering trying a month Roberts trained person next :-S
 
Please please consider having her scoped for ulcers. the behaviour difference in my boy was quite incredible when he had them. it is a couple of hundred pounds but it sounds pain related from what you've said and as her varies have been checked this would ne my next port of call. can't believe a well respected equity vet would be unwilling to do this
 
A poo sample for ulcers would be checking for occult blood which is blood that is invisable to the eye and has been digested which usually means it come from high in the GI tract. It not a conculsive test but its a lot cheaper than scoping and samples can be taken on a regular basis. Its often done for humans and is the first step in work up tests.
 
She did have the poo test and it was clear but I'm still not convinced..
She's not worth breeding from as she hasn't a nice nature
I can't afford to pay for her reschooling
I'm not selling after a long hard think she could end up anywhere so my options all depend on the insurance now :(
 
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