Help/advice please - downgrading a horse at BE

[porkpie]

Hello all. I had the privaledge to buy a young BE schoolmaster last year with the intention of doing BE100 and ultimately Novice. He had already done 4 Novice in the 2010 season gaining 1 point for a double clear with his previous owner.

I bought him fully knowing that having that 1 point would cause me a few problems as I am some considerable distance from being capable of doing Novice. However his experience and honest attitude were worth more to me as he would be able to teach me so much and give me much needed confidence.

However, I'm based in the South West and since I bought him we have now lost both Bickenhall and Stockland Lovell. That means an already thin BE calendar that offered BE100 Open sections is even less.

I had not previously considered trying to downgrade him as I felt there were enough BE100 Open sections to keep me busy when we were ready to be seen in public together. Now though, this is not the case so I am revisiting the option of downgrading.

I see though, that it seems that the horse cannot have competed at that level in the current & previous 2 seasons. Therefore, as his Novice point was gained in the 2010 season, I'm a bit stuffed. Can anyone of you more experienced lot confirm/help/advise?

Much appreciated - I'm a keen RC hoping to affiliate and do BE type bod so I'm really hoping someone can help.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sarah_Jane]

There are actually still a fair few within reach see this restricted to BE100 opens http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-...=1&status=NotSet&map=0&year=2012&orderBy=date

Moreton, Bicton, Also, Larkhill, West Buckland to name a few earlier ones

 

[SusieT]

Sorry I think you're trying to downgrade when you shouldn't be. Your horse is capable of novice, do HC BE100 until you are ready then move up.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

get a few pc runs under y9ur belt cheaper! then go novice...

 

[BronsonNutter]

Seeing as it seems he can't be downgraded, it looks like your only options are to stick to open sections where possible, and either go HC or unaffiliated inbetween - are there any decent unaff/RC/PC events near you? We have several near me that run at BE venues that don't have restrictions of BE points, not sure what it's like in the south west though...

 

[popsdosh]

The horse wont be eligible to downgrade until 2013 season you can always run HC in 100 sections anyway.
What ever way you do it you will need 3 clear CC runs at 100 level before you could take the horse novice.
Im not an expert but I think the point will make riding clubs qualification difficult as well.

 

[Tangaroo]

As S-J says there are still quite a few BE100 opens in the SW.
I am looking to buy a similar type of horse but i really want one without any points as i want to be eligible for grassroots. Think its harder to find a schoolmaster without points.

 

[popsdosh]

I am looking to buy a similar type of horse but i really want one without any points as i want to be eligible for grassroots. Think its harder to find a schoolmaster without points.

But surely a schoolmaster without points is a contradiction!

 

[TheoryX1]

We are in the same neck of the woods as you by the sound of it. My daughter's horse has points (daughter's results) and has suffered a lot of confidence issues so has gone up and down from BE100 to Novice as and when required. We dont ever seem to have any issues finding events to accommodate her. Also, dont forget you can still do BE100 plus if your dressage is up to it as well.

On top of this, in this region you are still within easy striking reach of the South Wales events (Monmouth and Homme House do a BE100 open and are lovely events,in fact Homme is one of mine and my daughters favourites), plus the Midlands like Solihull, Sapey etc, plus at a pinch you can get to the Oxford/Berks based ones as well, so plenty of choice.

Alternatively, have a crack at riding HC, I know you cant be competitive but it gives you an idea of where you would have been placed. One question before I go though, your horse is described as a young BE schoolmaster. Surely a contradiction in terms? My daughter's horse is 10 this year and has quite a few more points than your horse, and I would not for one minute describe her as a schoolmaster, unless you wanted her to just pot hunt at BE100 opens, which she will do all day without effort, but complete schoolmaster she is not.

 

[porkpie]

QUOTE "Alternatively, have a crack at riding HC, I know you cant be competitive but it gives you an idea of where you would have been placed. One question before I go though, your horse is described as a young BE schoolmaster. Surely a contradiction in terms? My daughter's horse is 10 this year and has quite a few more points than your horse, and I would not for one minute describe her as a schoolmaster, unless you wanted her to just pot hunt at BE100 opens, which she will do all day without effort, but complete schoolmaster she is not.[/QUOTE]

Hello - well yes, he is only 7 and only done 2 seasons BE (although went from 90 to Novice very quickly, but produced by a proff) so you're right, I guess he is not a proper schoolmaster in the strictest terms. However, because of his ability and honesty, hes fab for a keen amateur like myself. In many ways, hes a very special horse because he has natural ability but he is so genuine and such a trier that hes perfect for me.

The 1 point is, frankly, a pain in the arse but I didn't want to bring on a youngster but instead have something that could teach me a few things. Whilst he hasn't got the experience you refer to, he does have enough to show me some stuff, bless him.

You are all correct about HC - not something I had seriously considered, but on reflection it really should be. Silly to miss out on opportunities for experience - ribbons can wait!!

Also S-J is quite correct - I'm sure the first draft of the fixtures for next year didn't have as many showing 100 opens - either things have changed (improved!) or I'm a bit blind. Either way, there really does seem like there should be enough events to keep me going - and yes - Monmouth and Homme House a possibility too.

 

[Tangaroo]

But surely a schoolmaster without points is a contradiction!

I dont see why its a contradiction.
Some people dont compete affiliated but do all the riding and pony club teams very successfully.
I would like a horse who is confident jumping 1m and who has been out and about proving it. I dont think a schoolmaster has to be at a much higher level, just happy and genuine at the level they are capable of.
I realise i will probably be looking for months

 

[TheoryX1]

Interesting, ours was produced by a pro, who in fact bred her as well. Being on an eventing yard, I sometimes think they get pushed too fast, but keep my feelings to myself, I am not an expert. She took her to PN at 5 and was just about to go Novice when we bought her. She's done 4 seasons with my daughter since, and if she didnt have BE points I would have definitely said she was a PN schoolmaster, but that is all. She started at BE90 and has taken her to Novice with a view to doing the JRN champs and/or a 1*. Its really interesting to see how these horses are described as schoolmasters, particularly young ones. Ours will do a very reliable dressage test in the mid 20s, mostly go clear sj and go clear within the time xc, she is a very genuine and honest little girl. If she was for sale, which she is not, I would have to say she was a JRN horse, as she is a perfect little teenagers horse at 15.1hh.

There is usually loads to choose from in our area, so we may see you out and about.

 

[Honey08]

This is only my observation, but I think that some people use the term schoolmaster for a horse that is confident and talented - especially if it has done a higher level than they want to do at the moment.. Quite different from a real schoolmaster, and probably not suitable for a novice really.

I too think that some of the pro's young horses are pushed too far too soon. But to them it doesn't matter if they don't go the full way, they are just sold off and the ones that continue to win carry on.. I have two friends that bought horses that have been pro's rides. One is incredibly talented (another one point horse!) but his head is totally mashed by it all. He would probably have gone a lot further with someone who took it slower. The other horse has a few eliminations at BE90/100 which doesn't look good on it's record, but it was pushed up to BE100 at 5yrs and not ready. As an eight yr old in a private home it is now jumping very well.

 

[porkpie]

Interesting, ours was produced by a pro, who in fact bred her as well. Being on an eventing yard, I sometimes think they get pushed too fast, but keep my feelings to myself, I am not an expert.
There is usually loads to choose from in our area, so we may see you out and about.

Its interesting - my chap was put up for sale (he was always brought on to sell) when he had had some good placings at BE100. He didn't sell at the time (not sure if price was too high, poor location, bad advertising or what) and eventually people were then asking why he wasn't being taken up to Novice. He had not been taken Novice at this stage (although I gather he was ready for it - a pro's view - us lesser beings may not have taken it that fast because they didn't want him to get points so he would be easier to sell to someone looking for a Grassroots type horse. But then it looked bad that he wasn't going Novice - as if there was some issue with him. So, as he hadn't sold, thats what they did and he promptly got a point for a DC - doh!!

I can see it was a difficult decision when he was brought on to sell - bit of a 'rock and a hard place' kind of decision.

However, regarding 'Schoolmasters' - well, I guess it is really a question of what level you want to compete at, and if that horse has done it or above and is genuine. Horses for courses perhaps??!

 

[DarkHorseB]

Sorry I think you're trying to downgrade when you shouldn't be. Your horse is capable of novice, do HC BE100 until you are ready then move up.

What a ridiculous comment
The horse has ONE point - it hasn't won Badminton!!
She is perfectly entitled to downgrade the horse from 2013 - far, far more experienced horses have been downgraded. It doesn't really matter what your opinion is on downgrading - BE make the rules.
OP may never be ready to do Novice or she may be quite soon but she shouldn't be made to feel bad about downgrading a horse that is eligible next year.