Help again please

Ideal

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I have not written a Ben update for a couple of weeks , due to working ridiculous hours and having had 1 day off. I have been spending time with him either side of my shifts , grooming, talking to him . Lungeing and riding .

Ben arrived on the 08.12.2011 my first ever horse. He is on part livery , turned out and bought in for me.The first day he was turned out he reared , kicked and escaped. A chiffney has been used on him since , by experienced staff at the yard. He has been fine on the ground , and had been fine going in and out since then. I am at work today till 7pm . Just found out he has reared , hurt a member of staff and escaped , whilst being brought in today. Over reaching and cutting himself in the process. I will be straight to yard when I finish work.

I am so upset and worried about what I have bought, have I made a huge mistake ? I thought the first time was because he had not been turned out for a few weeks. He was such a good boy to ride in the school yesterday. I am already nervous of him and losing confidence by the second .

I would really appreciate some advice, comments as I am at work and am really upset ( I am a ridiculous worrier anyway ) .

Thank you for reading x
 

Godknows

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Is he your very first horse? Is he from a dealer? I'm sorry you are having problems like this. How experienced are the yard you keep him on?
 
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When I first got my mare, she was on Part Livery (she was switched to working livery briefly) and I was always being told 'your mare did this' or 'your mare wouldn't do that'. After being told some scary things by the children that had ponies there and seeing her covered in cuts one morning (never got to the bottom of what actually happened), I then witnessed the truth by turning up at an unusual time (the children were telling the truth).

Basically the staff were very pressed for time and were trying to get all the horses done as quickly as possible. My mare became frightened of them, they got cross with her, she became more scared etc... Plus she didn't like the YO at all and I can understand why.

I'm not saying that this is the case with your horse but I moved mine to DIY, spent time with her and we've never looked back.
 

Ideal

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Hi Godknows ,

He is my very first horse of my own yes, the elation is now turning into fear . I have a previous thread on here too re settling him in . Yes he was from a dealer ( I tried loads of horses private ads and dealers ) . The staff at yard are very experienced and I trust them. I know them well, as my loan horse is at the same yard, and I was loaning him for 18 months.

I just thought things were getting better , he had not done this since his first day . He was fine being turned out this morning. I know everyone will say different things which I appreciate and read everything advised . I tried him twice, had him vetted , took knowledgeable people with me. Who rode him too.

I just don't know what to do , it's hard being at work as I am sensitive and I am upset.

Thank you for your reply , and sorry my NYE thread is full of woe :(
 

Tammytoo

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Is he the last to be brought in from the field? If so, he may just be panicking and trying to get to his horsey friends. Does he do it if he is lead in with another horse beside him?

It's very early days yet and some horses do take a while to settle into their new surroundings and routine. Take a look at the Kelly Marks website "Intelligent Horsemanship" and see if there is an IH instructor near you who can come and give you some groundwork lessons to help you and your horse build up confidence with each other.

Most people reckon it takes around six months for you and your horse to build up a bond - so be patient and don't despair.
 

Godknows

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Hi Godknows ,

He is my very first horse of my own yes, the elation is now turning into fear . I have a previous thread on here too re settling him in . Yes he was from a dealer ( I tried loads of horses private ads and dealers ) . The staff at yard are very experienced and I trust them. I know them well, as my loan horse is at the same yard, and I was loaning him for 18 months.

I just thought things were getting better , he had not done this since his first day . He was fine being turned out this morning. I know everyone will say different things which I appreciate and read everything advised . I tried him twice, had him vetted , took knowledgeable people with me. Who rode him too.

I just don't know what to do , it's hard being at work as I am sensitive and I am upset.

Thank you for your reply , and sorry my NYE thread is full of woe :(
If possible as you are losing your confidence I would be returning him back to dealer if possible. It's not worth the fear he obviously has learnt this from not being handled correctly previously and not really for a novice. Which I hope was said in your warranty that you are a novice and this horse is suitable for such. I know there will be loads on here that will say give him a chance. If he carries on escaping he will get worse and bolshy. Beleive me you need a good experience this sort will put you off.
 

iconique

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I know you say you trust them but there may be a problem with the people working with your horse. A chiffney in the wrong hands (which imo is most hands as they don't have experience) will make a horse rear. It is always difficult if you aren't handling a horse yourself to actually find out why and what causes it.

If its such early days, I would get in touch with the dealer and then if there are further problems they are informed incase you decide he isn't fit for purpose and want to return him. Also speak to your yard manager to see if they think it will be an ongoing problem or something that they actually can deal with in a suitable manner - if they can't then he simply isn't the right horse for you.

Sorry you are having a difficult time, its just a shame that in this day and age no one trusts anyone enough to have a trial period as it takes time for a horse and owner to settle together and its only time that tells!
 

Ideal

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Hi Tammytoo

He is on his own at the moment due to a high worm count. He has horses in adjacent and opposite fields to him. I don't know if he was in first or last yet. I am really keen on getting some help from the site you suggested I will have a look in a moment . I have become fond of him and want it to work out , he has been so good on the ground and loves bering groomed, scratched, feet picked out etc. Rugs going on and off. He has not put his ears back at me once.
He was good in the school last night , and it was drizzling with rain. Just walked and trotted some circles etc.

Thank you for suggestion I will look into it asap, and thank you x
 

be positive

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If he is being good to ride and lunge for you, try not to lose your confidence continue to get to know him and hopefully enjoy your time with him.
The grooms may be having problems getting him in from the field but it is their job and they should be able to learn how to manage him, it may be that he needs to come in a bit earlier possibly if there is not much grass he is hungry and getting stressed waiting to come in.
Have a chat to the YO and see if there is something else to try often a small change is all that is required, even if it is a nuisance the horses well being must come first.
 
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I agree with whoever said about looking into getting and NH person out, or failing that, do you have an instructor who could work with you?
Having him on his own is going to create a lot of problems - how long does this have to be for? When are you re-worm counting?
Does he have to be in at all? Some horses are stress heads coming in at night, but stick them out 24/7 in a small herd and they really calm down.
 
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Would it be possible to have only one, experianced member of staff turn him out and bring him in? Then he could get to know them and hopefully this will help.

It's hard, but try not to let things that he has done with other people, erode your confidence with him. From your post, it sounds like he has always been very good with you.

Horses respond differently to different people.
 

Ideal

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Thank you Iconique and Godknows , the dealer only texted me this morning to see how he is, and I said everything was fine. As I thought it was . He was sold as a schoolmaster and confidence giver.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so stressed out just want to hide and have a massive cry,

x
 

Tammytoo

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Being in a field on his own may be the problem. Even though he has horses around him he may still be feeling isolated and desperate to get closer to company. Many years ago I had a mare that was kept temporarily on her own but with horses in the next field and she underwent a total personality change. She would spend all day glued to the hedge next to the other horses and if I tried to catch her and bring her into a stable, still in view of the others, she would simply swing round and bolt out of the stable. I had had her for 3 or 4 years at the time. She was fine being ridden because that was "normal" but being seperated from other horses wasn't!

Because I knew her so well it didn't bother me so much and she was soon restored to her normal turnout with others and went back to being the calm and confident mare I knew and loved.
 

Ideal

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Overwhelmed by the lovely responses , really helping me :)

They are turned out from 9:30 - to 15:00 in the winter and in during the night. My riding instructor was one of the people who came with me and rode him twice. I have had 2 lessons so far , and she was kindly on the ground in the school with me yesterday as I was nervous. He didn't put a foot wrong.

I just get really upset and fearful to hear he has reared again and hurt a member of staff. I worry he will be hated and people will think I have bought a crazy first horse.

He should be going out in the next week or so , with the horse he is currently next to in the field.

I will try and find a NH instructor in my area to help me with the groundwork too .
 

NeverSayNever

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Thank you Iconique and Godknows , the dealer only texted me this morning to see how he is, and I said everything was fine. As I thought it was . He was sold as a schoolmaster and confidence giver.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so stressed out just want to hide and have a massive cry,

x
hmmm - i would say the fact from day one the yard staff have had to lead him in chifney means everything is not fine, sorry. Especially if he was sold as s confidence giver. Id make sure you contact the dealer asap and make them aware of the facts, for your own sake just incase things dont work out and the dealer turns round as says 'well you said he was fine'. It sounds as if the dealer is decent if they have contacted you to check if he is working out ok.

dont lose heart - honestly ive been exactly where you are; sometimes it works and you are well matched and sometimes it doesnt and never be ashamed to admit it doesnt and send the horse back. Not saying this is the case here - he may well work out fine and just be settling in and trying it on in a new environment.Sticking a chifney in from day one seems extreme, if these yard staff are experienced and they deem this necessary i would have concerns about this as a first horse.

If i were you i would ask the dealer to come and visit if possible and give you some pointers. Get him/her to turn him out etc and see how he is behaving. Also, get a good RI to come to the yard and give you a lesson. Ask them to work with you on the ground as well and explain you are a new owner. That way they can come and watch you handle the horse and give you some tips before you tack up and perhaps have a short lesson.

Good luck - get help and get a plan ;):)
 

moosea

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I got my first ever loan horse at the end of November .... isn't it a scary time!! I also have people who turn her in and out for me during the week.

After she had charged both of the people when they tried to catch her I thought that she would have to go back.

However, I have put her onto magic daily calmer and took a week off work to spend with her and she now comes to the gate when called and has minimal aggression towards people.

It's very early days and maybe taking some time out to get to know your horse would be helpful in resolving his issues.

Big hugs to you .. it will get better :)
 

Miss L Toe

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Thank you Iconique and Godknows , the dealer only texted me this morning to see how he is, and I said everything was fine. As I thought it was . He was sold as a schoolmaster and confidence giver.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so stressed out just want to hide and have a massive cry,

x
Ouch! ring your dealer and explain your anxiety you are not happy and neither is the horse, do go to the YO and talk to her, she is on the spot and should help you out.
Ask the dealer to come up to your yard.
 

FairyLights

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It appears to be just a turning out/bringing in issue. Dont panic,apart from this he sounds like hes a good horse. How long is he out for daily? ETA i've just read the post about time of turnout,TBH this is quite short and he probably isnt used to it.What is he being fed? I would recommend hay only,no hard feed and turn out as much as possible. He may have been out 24/7 for most of his life and cannot understand being in at night and is in a rush to get to the paddock. Also,if hes the last to be brought in/turned out then hes almost certain to panic. There is also the possibility that in the past he has been "herded" with others too and from the field and not actually led so he doesnt understand being restrained [led] to his paddock and thinks he can charge off as soon as the stable door is opened. You need to speak to the YO and find out exacty what the routine is and what is going on.
 
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Aperchristmas

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To be fair to the staff and your horse it's probably just the settling in period where they try to test out new people. Just continue to be firm with him, up his work if you can and check his feed isn't overly heating. For example he may have a slight intolerance to sugar so any sugar sends him loopy (I'm not saying it is this at all but it is a possibility). Are you having regular lessons? Have as many as you can afford as this will give you more confidence.
 

Ideal

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I will call the dealer tomorrow as not in a good place right now. I am at work ( very boring job ! ) hence being able to use the internet.

Really grateful for all replies and advice so far, this is new for me . My loan horse was not a novice ride and he taught me loads. I knew he spooked when we went out and was a grumpy git , but I was never nervous. Ok maybe first few rides I was !!

Thank you again everyone ( Sorry I gush a bit with thanks , can't help it )
x
 

springtime13

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Does he need more exercise? At the dealers they probably had him in a routine and worked him hard every day. If he's not exercised enough he might be feeling very fresh and this would contribute to poor behaviour on the ground. I think someone else has asked about feeding, personally if he was mine I'd be thinking handful of hi fi lite chaff for dinner and breakfast, no carrots or apples (known to cause lively behaviour due to the amount of sugar) and adlib hay rather than haylage.
 

Godknows

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I will call the dealer tomorrow as not in a good place right now. I am at work ( very boring job ! ) hence being able to use the internet.

Really grateful for all replies and advice so far, this is new for me . My loan horse was not a novice ride and he taught me loads. I knew he spooked when we went out and was a grumpy git , but I was never nervous. Ok maybe first few rides I was !!

Thank you again everyone ( Sorry I gush a bit with thanks , can't help it )
x
Ideal

Don't let this put you off it is different when you can't just say "well he's not my responibility so the fear is not so great" When it's up to us to decide then there is only you can make that decision as to what you can cope with. Even if it takes a few years to find the right horse for you don't give up. It took 3 years to find my OH's horse for him but when we did he was ideal and gave him more confidence to do it all. (He did very well too).

Chin up and let us know what happens:)
 

Ideal

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Thank you again everyone. He has Spillers, I think it's called happy hoof ( I can check tonight) 1 scoop morning and in the evening. I have been really strict on the no treats and have only given him one apple in his feed bowl when he was a super star last night. He has 2 haynets put up for him about 4pm,the hay is soaked.

Other then that no treats. I finish work at 7pm and will be at yard by 7:15pm , give him a groom and look at his cut heel.

Then go home have a early night as back in work for 7am . Will try and get a grip till I get to the yard.

I hope everyone has a lovely new year and a brilliant 2012 x
 

springtime13

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See I think two scoops of happy hoof is quite a lot - although it depends how big your scoops are! I know they market happy hoof as lamitius suitable etc but it seems to me, as I feed it to be quite molassed and so sugary. You can get unmolassed chaff, or could drop his feed right down to say a half pint mug full morning and evening.
 

FestiveBoomBoom

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Could it be that he is the last one to be brought in and is getting himself wound up, especially if he is out in the dark? My pony shares a field with 2 others who are on full livery so the yard bring them in and this means that frequently my boy is left out on his own until I get up to the yard. Not ideal, but as he doesn't stress it's not a big deal. However, as soon as he catches sight of me he gets very giddy, broncs round the field etc getting very excited and can be strong to lead in although it doesn't bother me as I know him very well and he's never reared/kicked etc! He is only like this because he is the last one to come in, if he's the first he is a dope on a rope. I'm just thinking it could be as simple as ensuring your boy is not the last one to come in OR left out on his own in the dark. Of course this might not be the cause of his behavior but if he is good to handle in every other respect then there is clearly something upsetting him. Hope you get it sorted
 

Tammytoo

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I think you sound as though you have a lovely horse who is just a bit traumatised by the fact he is being kept separate at the moment and trying to adjust to his new surroundings. If the dealer was trying to pull a fast one I doubt very much that she would have contacted you to see how you were getting on.

I think the suggestion of him being brought in first is good and also check that he has enough to eat whilst he is out, there is very little goodness in the grass at the moment so if he doesn't have any hay in the field he may simply be hungry and seeing the others being taken in is winding him up.
 

Syrah

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I think you sound as though you have a lovely horse who is just a bit traumatised by the fact he is being kept separate at the moment and trying to adjust to his new surroundings. If the dealer was trying to pull a fast one I doubt very much that she would have contacted you to see how you were getting on.

I think the suggestion of him being brought in first is good and also check that he has enough to eat whilst he is out, there is very little goodness in the grass at the moment so if he doesn't have any hay in the field he may simply be hungry and seeing the others being taken in is winding him up.
^^^^ This.

I feel your pain. My mare was declared unmanageable, unsuitable, needed to be sold at our old yard. She was even put up for sale.

I moved her a couple of weeks ago and what a difference! She hasn't put a hoof wrong.

At the old yard she was breaking out of her field (one strand of leccy tape that wasn't turned on) and doing the odd loopy thing. She was in a field on her own with very little grass and only one small haynet to last her from 4pm until 9am..... she was hungry and lonely. We're now on a more experienced yard, she has all the hay she can eat, she's handled quietly and is a little star. She's still a little spooky but I've put her on schooling livery where they are desensitising her and teaching her to look but not react and to get her confidence from her rider.

I do think that some yards just don't suite some horses. Mine was obviously very unhappy at the old yard, she loves it where she is now.

I think a chiffney is quite drastic and agree with alot of comments that your horse sounds like an angel apart from the 2 rearing episodes.

I would still speak to the dealer and see if they can help. Speaking to the dealer who sold me my mare was like a lightbulb moment for me (once we'd got past the defensive bit ;) )

I hope you manage to sort it out :)
 

McNally

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We moved yards in the summer and our youngster who is good as gold handled by a child daily, never puts a foot wrong type became not obviously upset but naughty and difficult for a while after the move I was really worried at the time but he just found the move traumatic, he settled and is happy now.

It could be that you have a lovely horse who's finding life stressfull right now. How long was he at the dealers? The fact it was a dealer shows he has had upheaval recently so probably not just one big move but another fairly recent one too.

If he's good to ride and you dont seem to be having problems yourself brushing etc i'd be inclined to stick with him a while- I'm also fairly impressed a dealer bothered to follow up a sale! I would however mention your worries to him see what he thinks, Is he a nice person?.
Sit back, Deep breath and look on the positive side He's not a bad horse he just had a few moments during a scary time in a horse life!

Good luck xx
 
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