Help and advice please

[twofatladies88]

I was happily enjoying a girly day with the ponies having brought them all in out of the rain. Lots of cuddles and grooming. Went in house to get a cuppa and OH said "There is a letter from the council saying that we have contaminated the public highway drainage system". Eh? Apparently on multiple occasions water used to clean the stables within (my address) is flowing into the public highway drainage system. The water is understood to contain debris such as straw and also contaminated with horse manure. ????? Firstly, we have never washed our stables out ever (we are too old and crocked to lift rubber mats!), secondly, we don't and never have used straw and thirdly, our stable 'yard' is the lawn - there is no concrete yard with any run off. We have been told to to prevent further drainage from the stables entering the public highway drainage and to carry out any works required. We are at total loss! How have the council ascertained that straw and horse manure are present - no proof has been given!!! The only drainage we have is for rainwater from the roof of the two small stable blocks (2 boxes and 3 boxes) which go into a grid at the gable ends These have grid covers on them. Furthermore, I have been quite ill this year, in and out of hospital so the ponies have been turned out since April so the boxes haven't been used till today. Really at a loss and really upset - rang council for more info but no one in on Friday afternoon! I will now have to worry all weekend. Any advice as to how we handle this? Do we invite them round to see a spotless stable yard with no contamination anywhere!? Please note I have ocd and no one but me can muck out my stables!! I have no idea where they have got their information from.

Help yourself to my Stoptober wine if you get this far!!!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It will be a malicious complaint from someone/your neighbours. Immediately put in an subject information request under GDPR to the council. I am guessing that your letter is from Environmental Health Dept - they seem to think that they can do as they please and make up any old rubbish. DO NOT invite them onto your property. If they turn up uninvited , insist that they bring a warrant (they won't get one).
Take legal advice, if you have BHS Gold membership ring the advice line, they were excellent when we had a similar situation. In the end EH gave up with their tail between their legs, we got a serious apology and the EH Officer concerned was disciplined.

 

[Goldenstar]

Where is your muck heap OP ?
I also think a neighbour is at the bottom of this .

 

[twofatladies88]

Thank you so much PAS. The letter starts "It has been brought to our attention" er how? The middle section states "The water is understood to contain debris such as straw and horse manure" - understood? have they not tested it? The letter is from the Flood and Water management team. We have been here 10 years and nothing has changed on our part, apart from this year we turned ponies out as I was ill so don't understand why now!

 

[twofatladies88]

GS the muck heap is quite a way away from the house and stables (in the opposite direction of the road) - so far that I am unable to push a wheelbarrow that far!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

It will be a malicious complaint from someone/your neighbours. Immediately put in an subject information request under GDPR to the council. I am guessing that your letter is from Environmental Health Dept - they seem to think that they can do as they please and make up any old rubbish. DO NOT invite them onto your property. If they turn up uninvited , insist that they bring a warrant (they won't get one).
Take legal advice, if you have BHS Gold membership ring the advice line, they were excellent when we had a similar situation. In the end EH gave up with their tail between their legs, we got a serious apology and the EH Officer concerned was disciplined.

Apart from I agree from the description it sounds malicious but if you’ve nothing to hide then why wouldn’t you let them see that if necessary?

As a former warranted officer under Section 108 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 you could enter any premises to prevent pollution. Entry powers are greater than that of the Police. You did not need to get any other warrant. Entering a private residence was different but not the outside land. I’m a bit rusty on the details now and RIPA May have had an impact. But usually unless it’s serious pollution advice and guidance is normally given on how to prevent it in future, it’s too costly to do much more than that. That’s probably why you’ve had a random letter without any checks because there have been so many staffing cuts over the last decade.

All in all though if you’re not causing a problem then I don’t see why you need to worry.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

If you get the subject information, you will possibly/probably be able to work out who is behind this.

However although I would be tempted to ask the letter-writer for proof of the claims, please don't respond until you have taken legal advice. If you are not BHS members, you might be able to get legal advice through your home insurance/membership of a professional body/a union , or CAB.

The very experienced solicitor that BHS put me in touch with told me that the letter we received was 'all bluff and bluster', he was right!

SbS, because they make things up that they say they have seen! NB, I was dealing with Environmental Health, not your colleagues.

 

[twofatladies88]

Sbts - we have nothing to hide - we are totally compliant with the law but this just seems like some random letter pointing the finger at us when we have done nothing wrong. The letter is very threatening (they have referred us to the Environment Agency) stating that they have had to clear out the gullys on several occasions due to blockages. Thing is, if we were to allow (non existent straw and manure) to enter the drains, then we would be blocking our own drains! OH has been out today and checked all drains and they are all clear with running rainwater. Old people get very worried with threatening letters!

 

[twofatladies88]

It has completely ruined my nice girly day - was enjoying the pampering sessions and cuddles and now all worked up and OH telling me off!

 

[cobgoblin]

Ask the council for proof.

 

[twofatladies88]

Thanks CG - it was so out of the blue - our place is immaculate so I am at a loss as to how the council can just come along and threaten us with no proof!

 

[Foxychops]

We had this a couple of years ago . The letter said our muck heap had contaminated the water source that ran in to a local pond. The pond is about a mile away . No evidence was given etc. We know who it was and it was meant to be malicious. A cleverly worded letter back put a stop to it as they weren't snowy white and soon wound their necks in!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Please please get legal advice before you reply or do anything else.

The standard advice if any-one turns up wanting access to your property, including RSPCA, is don't let them in without a warrant - and my experience, when we did allow EH access to our land bears out the advisibility of that course of action. EHO made up all sorts of nonsense, with absolutely no proof to back any of it up. Hence the disciplinary action that he was subject to several months later, after we got it all sorted out.

 

[twofatladies88]

I really could do without all of this as I am not in the best of health. Thanks again PAS. I am a gold bhs member and also have legal cover on our building and contents insurance. The (almost) laughable thing is the gullys drain into the river where cattle graze the meadows and obviously p1$$ and cr@p in the water so how are they saying it's horse manure without testing not that they would find any of ours! Does anyone know how the Environment Agency test? With regards to blocked drains, the road drain at the end of our drive adjoining the road used to have a solid manhole cover on it but a while ago was replaced with a 'holey' one with gaps 2cm by 20cm. As we enter and leave the property, we can see garden debris in the drain - pine cones and needles- lots - from the tree in next doors garden. There are 4 properties that drain into drain and yet we have been singled out?!!

 

[scruffyponies]

Deep breath OP. You haven't done anything wrong. Take your time. There's good advice here. Get legal advice and lodge the subject access request. When you have more information, then you can sit down with a cup of tea and decide what to do.

If you state just the facts as you do here, it sounds like you will have no problem rebutting the allegation - which is all it is, but don't be rushed into anything until you have been professionally advised.

 

[Britestar]

I got a letter years ago saying my muck heap had to move as it was too close to a burn, and the run off contaminating it.

I live on a hill and the nearest burn is probably over 1/2 a mile away.

EH turned up and I showed him the muck heap and asked where he'd like me to move it to, as technically if I moved it, it would be nearer the water. He realised it was a malicious complaint, and was actually the wrong property. I guided him to my neighbour, who's muck heap was right next to the burn.

 

[JillA]

Ask the council for proof.

This.
Ask for any supporting evidence and when there is none demand that they dismiss the matter. Although, that said, I had similar from a neighbour about the smell from a midden and the EH man who came said he had been next door ans smelt it in June. Actually that midden had not been in use for some three months by then so beware the complainers influence

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I think it’s malicious too but just check that if you soak hay for the ponies the run off and hay may reach water supply...

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This.
Ask for any supporting evidence and when there is none demand that they dismiss the matter. Although, that said, I had similar from a neighbour about the smell from a midden and the EH man who came said he had been next door ans smelt it in June. Actually that midden had not been in use for some three months by then so beware the complainers influence

Yes, eventually we found out that the complainant had concerns about something happening at the back of their house, apparently in relation to/caused by our muck heap. All our land is to the front of their property but when we got the subject information that part had been redacted 'to protect the identity of the complainant'.

Because of other allegations/assertions made by the EHO with no evidence, we eventually got a meeting with the Head of Dept, who showed us her redacted copy of the original complaint, the 'back of the property' part had NOT been redacted and we were able to tell her that if EHO hadn't been so invested in the complainant's version he would have understood from the first moment on our property that their problems were none of our making.

Do get all your ducks in a row, OP, before you even start to respond. We were naive, don't follow our example.

 

[twofatladies88]

Thank you everyone for your input - it is much appreciated. I've had a sleepless night so will feel rubbish today! OH is very pragmatic and thinks it will go away but I think councils work differently! He did make me smile though, when he said "good job you didn't get the garden concreted last year"!!! I had thought of getting concrete between the two stable blocks to make the place look better and to stop me sliding about in mud with my dodgy knees! It also made me smile slightly when I re-read the letter that I washed out my stables on multiple occasions! They are stables not a milking parlour! Who washes their stables out that often?

 

[Berpisc]

All good advice above. Check that nothing of yours could or does potentially cause any regulations to be infringed (as Ps says, get your ducks in a row) but I would agree that it is better to respond when you are ready. You then cannot be seen to be ignoring or avoiding the letter. We used to get stuff like this a lot when we were farming in our village. The arable stuff is now done by contractor so we are less easily bullied. (we are also tenants so that was another route for those who felt the need to prod us.)

 

[twofatladies88]

I agree that it must be a malicious neighbour - anyone who comes here, farrier, vet, edt, physio all know I use shavings so gobsmacked to get a letter accusing us of blocking drains with straw! Sort of narrows it down to the new people at the end of the road (where the overflowing gully is) as they obviously haven't been on our premises! Funnily enough the farm next door rents out the old farm buildings to a farmer to house his cattle - he uses straw!

 

[twofatladies88]

Morning everyone.
As per your brilliant advice, OH has submitted a gdpr form to the council. I rang the BHS helpline (which has been outsourced to SEIB) Spoke to the solicitor and said we had submitted gdpr - solicitor said we wouldn't get the information unless the other party agrees to it which they probably wouldn't.

Has anyone had any experience of this process please?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You *will* get the info, the law says that you must. The complainant's name and other identifying details will be redacted but that won't stop you working out who made the complaint and what the complaint is actually about. You may have to wait at least a week. Did the solicitor tell you how to respond to the letter?

 

[twofatladies88]

Thank you pas, solicitor said to ring back when we have reply.