HELP! Colt got into field and covered my mare!

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Can anyone advise on time frames please. Web advice is difficult to follow. On Sunday last, my mare and another mare were covered in the field by a colt - possibly 18 months old - who broke through the fence. He was seen covering the other mare and my mare had hoof marks on her back, spots of blood on her rump and started screaming for her new boyfriend when she was removed and stabled, so it's 99% certain that she was covered too. My mare is a rescue horse and she only has about 5% of her liver function remaining, due to severe ragwort poisoning. A foal would kill her. She MUST have the injection to bring her back into season. My equine vets say this injection has to be 10 - 14 days after the covering. But the woman who owns the colt (who is going to pay for the treatment) says HER vet has advised to wait 21 days to see if both mares come back into season. But if we did that and they were both pregnant, we would have passed the 10 - 14 day deadline for the injection. Also, I never know when my mare is in season, she has never shown any overt signs. Also, with winter approaching, waiting for signs of another season could be misleading. This woman's vet has allegedly also said that (a) the colt probably isn't fertile yet - yeah, right and (b) after he's covered one mare, he won't have any more semen to get a 2nd mare pregnant. Yeah, right again, and anyway, who knows which mare was first in the queue????? Does anyone know (a) how soon the injection must be given and (b) what do you think of the idea of waiting to see if another season occurs? I think the woman is just trying to get out of the costs. But like I said, my mare absolutely CANNOT be allowed to get in foal as it would kill her. HELP please! Thanks.

 

[Tia]

I'm sure my vet suggested the shot needed to be given before 35 days after the event. I don't recall him mentioning how soon afterwards it needed to be done though; just that it had to be before 35 days. We had a horse come here a number of months ago who needed to have this shot as a precautionary due to some hanky panky business having gone on.

Personally, if it was me, I'd still have her jabbed regardless of whether she came into season or not; some mares can have what looks like seasons even when they are pregnant, so would never put too much stock in that I'm afraid.

 

[Maisy]

I would go with what your vet recommends. And then get her to foot the bill.

What a nightmare!! What kind of fencing did he get through??

 

[Crystalbank_stud]

Mares can still come back into season, even when being pregnant so be careful.

I'd lean to going with what your vet recommends.

Good luck, not a great situation to be in.

 

[cissiny]

What a horrible situation!

I assume that your own vet knows the mare well and also her condition (liver problems). If I had a mare that had a very low liver function, I would discuss any medication with a vet that is more or less specialized in liver diseases. The liver is after all a very important organ when it comes to medications.

So, first of all, I would listen to a vet that knows the mare very well. Is there any risks involved in the shot used to stop a pregnancy? If there is, should an ultrasound be done prior to give the shot, just to be sure that she is in foal? I would certainly not wait for her to show signs of being in season, as mares can show that even when in foal and also the fact that she can be "empty" even if there is no sign of season (especially at this time of the year).

I did study vet medicine/pharmacology years ago but that was definitely too long ago to give any kind of advice more than that you should consult a vet that really knows her liver condition.

If this would have happened in Sweden, where I live, the colt owner would be responsible for any costs that arise after the colt's visit to her field. I don't know what the British laws say, but here the colt owner could not get away from the costs it takes to make sure that the mare is not in foal or has any resulting damage (as if she needs specific treatment after this).

If it was my mare, I would also take steps to make sure that this did not happen again. I.e. thinking of sterilisation/castration of the mare as having a foal would be so dangerous for her. I don't think that you can get the colt owner to pay for that, but maybe it is something to consider? Accidents can happen... But of course, I would also bring this up with a vet considering her liver condition (I'm thinking of meds needed for surgery etc).

If the laws regarding a colt/stallion owner's responsibilities are the same in the UK as in Sweden, I might consider contacting a lawyer if the colt owner don't want to pay all costs involved in this. Just to be sure which laws that apply. Here you can get free advice on the phone, maybe that's possible in the UK aswell?

Good luck with everything, keep us informed

.

Best wishes,
Cissi

 

[JanetGeorge]

Easiest and safest way is to give a jab of PG (Estrumate)10- 14 days after the 'incident'. It will bring her into season on schedule and terminate any chance of pregnancy. It's cheap and easy - I doubt there are any implications for your mare's condition, but your vet can advise on that. Your looking at whatever your vet charges for a visit and a jab plus about £5 for the dose of Estrumate.

The colt owner is - of course - talking absolute nonsense! My 18 year old stallion can cover 2 or 3 mares in a day and get them all pregnant - he could almost certainly do more (although he'd sleep well that night!)

At this time of year, waiting to see if they come into season is a non-starter as many mares are starting to go into transitional oestrus. So even if your mare normally shows 'in season' easily (not all do) she may be harder to spot this time.

 

[Springs]

One other option is to have the mare scanned and is any folical is present have it pinched (this is normally done when twins are present) This can be done stright away and then checked 14 days after conception.

No drugs should be needed

Good luck

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Many, many thanks everyone, especially JG. That's exactly the detail I needed. I've just rung the colt's owner and she isn't a fire breathing dragon - she just needed to know that my mare wasn't in the position to benefit from a "free" covering and that I was determined that she would have to have the injection. All agreed now and her vet is coming out 1st or 2nd October. Phew! Cisinni and Springs, the problem with severe liver damage is that it also affects the clotting ability of the blood so any procedures that could involve bleeding, especially internal where you can't see it, are dodgy to impossible. She had a liver flush just after she arrived last year which involves inserting a drip into the vein in the neck and infusing a gallon of saline/glucose/minerals to absorb any still-circulating toxins. When the needle was withdrawn, it took over 4 hours for the incision to clot. Talk about panic! I've been very fortunate that Prof Derek Knottenbelt of Liverpool University - a world expert on ragwort poisoning in horses - has given me detailed advice on supporting Angel's liver and her daily management to keep her as healthy as possible. She's doing amazingly well and only came home on the Saturday from being backed! She must have thought it was Christmas when she found a nice bit of talent in her field that night!!!!

Once again, many thanks all. Will post in a couple of weeks to update xxx

 

[AndyPandy]

PG would be a much cheaper option than pinching.

The colt would potentially need less than 10 minutes between mares to be ready again to produce an ejaculate containing viable sperm... assuming he is fertile, which he could well be at 18 months.

Get the mares jabbed. PG will not effect her negatively - she may sweat but that will be transient. There's no point waiting to see whether she's pregnant and then dealing with it... prevention is better than cure (although I'm aware that in this case, the PG jab is a cure of sorts).

Good luck

 

[wishfulthinking]

I had a similar situation a few years ago and followed all the correct advice with PG etc. She was due to go to stud that year so took her for a scan when next season was supposed to be due only to find that she was in foal! Not trying to scaremonger but in this situation where a pregnancy could be very harmful to the mare it may be woth having a scan following the PG.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

OMG wishfulthinking! The first thing I asked my vets was if the injection was definitive! Will talk with them again in the morning - many thanks for the info x

 

[AndyPandy]

There are no definites in horse horse breeding! It's always worth getting them scanned afterward, as there can be no guarantees.

In wishfulthinking's case, we don't know about the timing of the injection... in addition there may have been other factors (such as a double ovulation) which may have reduced the effectiveness of the PG jab.

Get them jabbed, then get them scanned. Simplest way.

 

[wishfulthinking]

You're right AP and unfortunately I can't remember the timings. I know she was taken to the vet the morning that the neighbouring colt broke into the field and the vet examined the mare and thought it likely that an attempt at covering had been made and she was washed out and injected and she was injected at two weeks then again I think but can't be sure.

Anyhow, best be on the safe side and scan afterwards in this case I think.