Help dog with severe PMT :(

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Beatrice5

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My 4 year old Show type Cocker only cycles 12 to 18 monthly and is very grumpy in between. She has just had puppies this summer ( 14 weeks ago) and was such a happy relaxed girl all the way through from when she finally came into season after 14 months until today. Today she has been very grumpy and flew at another dog.

I have spoken to the vet previously about this and he checked her over then and said she looks absolutely fine and not to worry about her cycle as that is just her - We have known him 3 years so he does know her well. All he suggested for the PMT was blood tests to see what her cycle is doing but he wasn't worried but then he doesn't have to live with her.

Anyone have any suggestion apart from keeping her away from my other dogs as she is currently being an evil witch to everyone and flew at my old girl this afternoon and had her pinned down by the throat when we were in the garden after a lovely sunny chilled walk. It was totally unprovoked and came from nowhere poor old Amber was shaking afterwards. I can only assume it was over the chicken food that was scattered all over the lawn that Amber was snuffling around for crumbs and Tallulah is an utter gannet and very food orientated. But they are well fed ( raw and JWB ) gets lots of veggies to fill them up and are all slightly too well covered due to scrumping for hazel nuts in the garden.

She is worrying me and I am having to seperate her from the others if I leave the room for fear of her flying at one of the other dogs :( NB she is absolutely fine with humans but I am very strict that the kids keep away from the dogs when I am not in the room .
 
I would spay her too, she sounds very unhappy and this may be hormone related.
My older dog was out of a dog-aggressive, nervy bitch (if I knew then what I know now etc etc etc) and she should never have been bred from.
Pups get so much more from the mother than people think - yes, the stud is the stud, but she carries them and raises them. There are more problems from the motherline, in the litter my older dog came from, than you would imagine.
 
Going to go with the flock here and suggest you have her spayed. If she is having hormone related problems it will possibly make her more prone to pyo, not worth the risk imo.
 
Oh my very quick to jump to assumptions!!!!

She is not an agressive dog. Yes she is the alpha female pack leader. She is very happy but can get premenstrual prior to a season.

I guess I posted in the wrong forum I was after constructive knowledgeable advice from those who know and live with entire bitches and their cycles.

If she was an agressive dog I would not have bred from her.
 
I have plenty of experience of entire bitches, including ones who have had irregular season cycles. If any of them had shown symptoms such as you describe I would have had them spayed. You say she cycles approx every 12 - 18 months, and has a litter aged 14 weeks, so if she is showing PMT symptoms now she is either going to come in season at a more normal 6 month interval or is going to be suffering these symptoms for up to 12 months. Are you keen to have another litter from her because if not I do not understand why you are reluctant to spay her which would surely solve the problem if she is worrying you.
 
I've always lived with entire bitches, I only got my first male dog three years ago.
And yes, I nearly lost one who sounds just like yours, from a pyometra, it's a terrible condition.
She was bred twice, first litter was a disaster, none of the second litter made it. Nature's way of telling us not to bother I think.
No need to throw a strop because different people are telling you the same thing, breed away at her then :)
 
Sorry, reading that back, it looks very snarky.
MM has put the point much better than I.
If it is causing an issue and a worry, the best thing is to have her spayed and remove all worry. Her long term health and happiness and that of your other dogs is surely more important than her having puppies?
I don't think it is a coincidence that all the posters so far have given the same basic opinion of a spay.
 
I have plenty of experience with entire bitches and of having litters.
You should already have her 14 week old breeding replacement and there is no reason to continue breeding from a bitch with hormone issues.
I'm rather concerned by this bitch being described as a "4 year old Show type Cocker" - so she is just a pet? Four years is getting on for a first litter and why breed from her at all especially as you say she has a history of grumpiness.
I would not have bred from her and would be booking the spay ASAP.
 
Firstly she is a pet from show lines so is a calmer version of a working Cocker.

I have over reacted as to the severe bit. I was shocked by her behaviour and in her 4 years of being with us she has only snapped at another dog twice, yesterday over food which is as with most spaniels her complete love and once over a tennis ball again a strong desire to fetch and return it.

This is her second litter as I didn't keep from the first stupidly and they have all grown into amazing family pets and one even is doing very well in the KC good citizen scheme the others do basic agility and obedience. She has also been shown lightly as a puppy more for socialisation as it's a great way to meet loads of different shapes and size of dog and she did very well and behaved perfectly.

She is great around other dogs on walks, accepts strange visitors dogs into the house, plays nicely with our puppy and is generally a very nice obedient tolerant dog.

We had just got back from a long walk and chasing pheasants , she was hot, tired and probably in need of a snack - hence the irritability when she and Amber met nose to nose over a morsal of chicken food. All she did in dog language was to say back off it's mine but to me in a slightly over the top way. There was no blood, no damage no squabble she just put her in the submissive position as any pissed off dog would to a puppy.

So I apologise for misleading you that she is a dog eating agressive fire breathing dragon! But I do however feel she could do with something for her hormones to regulate her cycle and sometimes she has more subdued big eye days so I may well consult my local homeopathic vet and stuff some omega oils in her food as I am sure that is all she needs.
 
To put a slightly different slant on it - she's given you a lovely litter, she's suffers from PMT, making her unhappy and unpredictable, why not spay her - for 'her', and aleviate her symptoms? Giving her a happier life.

She owes you nothing in terms of reproduction.
 
Thank you for explaining that your first post was an over reaction. However having read your further explanation it would make me say even more that spaying would be the sensible option. You have no reason to keep her entire that I can see so why risk the chance of a pyo, even if you aren't bothered about the times of the year when she is grumpy and unhappy.
 
The only real benefit of spaying is if done before the 2nd season it reduces the chance of mammary tumours by 90% as she is 4 there is no health benefit to her in that respect.

I am very well aware of Pyo and it's symptoms and risks I have a father who used to breed and train security / drugs dogs etc so come from a very experienced dog owning family .

Spaying can in breeds such as Spaniels and setters predispose them to incontinance which is a risk I am not prepared to take.

It also ruins their beautiful silky coat meaning they have to be clipped and makes them predisposed to putting on weight and being permanently on a strict diet.

At the moment I would rather try natural options as I do not feel she is unhappy all the time she just has the odd off day but don't we all. I can be snappy when my kids are playing up maybe I should be spayed.......!

But thank you for not judging and be so kind and helpful with your replies :D It's so good to talk and work things out.
 
Beatrice5 said:
The only real benefit of spaying is if done before the 2nd season it reduces the chance of mammary tumours by 90% as she is 4 there is no health benefit to her in that respect.

I am very well aware of Pyo and it's symptoms and risks I have a father who used to breed and train security / drugs dogs etc so come from a very experienced dog owning family .

Spaying can in breeds such as Spaniels and setters predispose them to incontinance which is a risk I am not prepared to take.

It also ruins their beautiful silky coat meaning they have to be clipped and makes them predisposed to putting on weight and being permanently on a strict diet.
Click to expand...

AND it also stops them from getting pyo, which can kill them, rapidly, if not caught in time, as you will well know with your experience and awareness of the symptoms and risks.
My bitch got it at 11.
Not a spaniel obviously but lived for another five years with no leaking and a nice (for a sable :p) coat after an emergency spay, with no additional weight gain despite a broken leg in youth.
Sounds like you had your mind made up anyway, sorry you didn't get the answers you wanted :) as mentioned, good luck with her :)
 
Cavecanem I am at home with my dogs all day everyday bar popping out to drop / collect kids / riding and shopping when necessary. My dogs are house dogs not kennel dogs so I know them really well and take their tempreture / check their colour etc if I notice the slightest change. I understand the risk of Pyo increases with age and will unpon the advice of my vet spay if and when it is deemed necessary.
 
Why is it necessary now ? There is no urgency she is in top health and in absolutely fine form. As for future litter plans I don't have any and your point is?
 
I believe in your original post you were rather hoping that someones dog had suffered the same and had used something like evening primrose oil or something similar. Why dont you ring Global Herbs and speak to the vet Stephen Ashdown(I think thats his name) who is very knowledgeable and see what he has to say.

Then perhaps you can come back on here and tell us what works, in defense of the other answers you have had, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here who have bred for many years and are only trying to pass on this knowledge to you and stop you from having a tragedy.
 
Thank goodness finally someone with some helpful advice :D

I will do that as I have used Global herbs for the horses and thought they were very good.

I do appreciate there are some very knowledgeable people here hence posting the question. Unfortunately the anti breeding campaign who's answer to everything is spay or castration always add their tuppence worth and have nothing to back up their orders as to what to do. This I find mighty infuriating and narrow minded.

But thank you again for taking the time to post and being very diplomatic.
 
I'm not anti-(responsible) breeding, thanks, I have a castrated dog (due to health problems, his health is the most important thing to me and he is not breeding material) and an entire one.
As you will also see, at least two of the other respondees are not anti-breeding either as they have in the past and most likely intend to in future, breed litters.
I said 'spay' to eliminate the risk of pyo, to 'back up' my answer, not 'order', because any bitch I have known personally who has funny with hormones or suffered from a phantom pregnancy, has ended up with a pyo, and it would not be a risk I would take, personally :)
 
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OK my final word on the matter. I consider myself both an experienced and caring dog owner, I lost a bitch just over 12 months ago to a pyo, she was at the vet at the first symptom but unfortunately due to her age although she survived the surgery she went down hill afterwards and had to be pts. I will never forgive myself for not spaying her earlier, when she was fit and health and it was not an emergency, what is a bit of incontinence and a different textured coat compared to not having your dog anymore.
I am not anti breeding from health tested parents of good breed type and temperament, and am intending breeding from my bitch at the next season. I will hopefully have a bitch to retain from that litter but either way Evie will be spayed as soon as possible after her litter.
I am glad your bitch is in fine form, would seem your OP was not really necessary as this is the case and your worries were unfounded.
 
There has to my knowledge never been an anti breeding campaign on this forum only irresponsible breeding, people who dont health test and churning out unwanted puppies.

Both my 2 Dobes a dog and bitch are neutered and spayed even if it wasnt a condition of rehoming(both Dobermann Welfare) I would still have had it done as the health and social benefits outweigh keeping them entire. Our Lancashire Heeler puppy who is 6months old will be bred from if she has a successful show career and they are on the KC vunerable list but even so only if she proves herself as a good and healthy specimen.

Good luck with your dog and I hope she gets sorted.
 
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