Help - don't know what to do with my horse

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Shiraz

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I have a 20yo (doesn't look or act it and vet thought she was 9!) chestnut arab mare, I've had her for 3.5yrs and my mum had her for 6.5yrs before that before giving up with her.

She's an angel to handle with not a bad bone in her body. I don't "click" riding her but she was schooled to a very high level, jumps, hacks out in company and alone with competent rider etc.

She is in at night during winter (yard rules) and in during the day in summer as she's photosensitive. It's when she's in that she weaves for no apparent reason. She always has company, food and able to see out over the whole yard.

She moved yards 3/4wks ago and her new stable is open (part of a barn) and the walls come up to her neck. She is weaving so badly that she has rubbed the hair from the underside of her neck, the muscle under her neck is buldging and badly over developed (always been a bit like this) and she has "popped" all the muscles around her withers. I'm at my wits end what to do with her. I'm now worrying about riding because she's "popped" her muscles which must surely affect the saddle fit and how she can use herself?

At our old yard one morning for no reason she started weaving so badly that she fell over and cut her face then couldn't get back up again. I wasn't there but another livery witnessed it and there was nothing to set her off. Even now she weaves until her legs go from under her!?

I have 2 other horses and Shiraz's carry on is stirring them up and upsetting them. My TB that didn't really weave (miminal 2inches side to side for 2secs are feed time) is now weaving and my QH is getting really stressed and bolshy (ie nightmare to handle) when Shiraz is playing up in the next stable. So obviously I don't want them to suffer either.

She still has loads left in her so retiring isn't really an option as she'll just be even more bored I would have thought. She is fit and healthy (got the vet to give her full MOT in April), worming, vaccs, teeth, back (McT-C/Physio/massages) all up to date etc.

Even riding we don't "click", she is so frustrating to ride that I just have to get off her and count to ten. I've never been like this with any other horse ever. At 20, and taking into consideration how paranoid I am about things, selling isn't an option and even loaning (would be different if she could stay at present yard) would be pushing it. I've put up a couple of notices at the local saddlery and feedstore for a rider/sharer (don't want money or chores done - just need someone who will enjoy her amd have fun) - didn't mention her age or breed due to cliches - but no response at all. Don't know if it's just because it's winter?

Does anyone have any ideas what I could try with her? She can't live out 24/7, I've tried stable toys with no avail, she has constant company and is on a quiet yard. I'm really at the very end of my tether with her. Willing to try pretty much anything and constructive critisim welcome!

Anyone in Stirling area want a horse to ride!!? She is really sweet, honest!

Here are some pics from September this year of her
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Does she weave over the door? How about putting a grill up at least that way she can't rub her neck. Not ideal I know as then she can't see over the door.
 
Why not put a grill up over the wall (if possible) then a weaving rack (think thats what there called) on her door. This way she can still look over the door but wont be able to weave???
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Very pretty girl.

Can you tape off the wall with eletric tape so she can't get near it to stick her head over?

Could she go out with a rug and neck cover?
 
Well, she does sometimes but when my mum went to buy her (I was only 14 and not there) she witness the seller slamming the top door in her face and S running back so usually she just stands in her stable and weaves behind the door/wall.

Now that we've moved to low walls she's started doing it with her head over; hence all the damage to her neck and back. I could swap her and my TB as TB is in a big loose box and I don't think she'd get her head over the door (just 15hh) but it's enclosed so she'd only be able to see over the door. (Her last yard had 1/2 walls then grilles so she could see out and there was no grille over the stable door).

So basically if I stop her doing it one way she will just stand in her stable and do it. That is what she was doing at the old yard when she fell over.

I don't know what to do or try, and then her weaving is now making me really angry because she's hurting herself and upsetting the other 2. I know that is wrong to get angry with her so then I feel really bad and guilty. I've tried tying her up/cross tying/standing with her/fussing over her/being really firm and telling her to stand/making her back up and move over to try and get her mind off weaving but nothing seems to be working
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Ooh she's lovely! Sorry can't be more helpful than that, apart from could she g back to a stable more like the old one? If the problem seemed to start whe she chenged stables?
She looks absolutely fab for 20 - sure you will find a sharer come the spring, she's do brilliantly in vets showing I expect?
 
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Very pretty girl.

Can you tape off the wall with eletric tape so she can't get near it to stick her head over?

Could she go out with a rug and neck cover?

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Thanks. She could live out but the YOs don't like them out 24/7 in winter. If she can't get over the wall/door she just weaves in her stable...

it's all made worse by the fact I get no enjoyment from riding her (sure someone would) so it seems like I am doing all this for nothing. In the time i've had her I've spent £££ getting her checked out and "fixed" hence all the McT-C, massage, new tack etc. I'm just exhausted with it all...

The thing is I'm sure she would be a perfect horse for someone who wanted a pony to pamper and be a happy hacker with equally as well if someone wanted to remind her of her schooling and compete her. She still has so much to give (I know taht sounds pants considering she is 20) and the whole situation is really frustrating me.
 
Question: is there something about this place that is upsetting to all three horses? In my (albeit limited) experience if more than one horse is weaving, it is more likely to be environmental rather than simply copied behaviour.

If you're sure it is just her setting them off, have you managed to identify what triggers her behaviour? Feeding time, boredom etc etc?

If she is feeling lonely a stable mirror could help?
 
Not many yards in my area that are "decent" and have facilities (ie dry stables, clean, safe, a school and hacking) and I have the other 2 to think of as well. I don't know of anywhere that just does turnout.

We've had her 9yrs now and she's always weaved but since I got her she got 100x better and can do things that couldn't be done before (hack out alone, stop, no jogging, catch and bring into stable alone to groom/tack up - all basic stuff but was a nightmare before) it just seems this year that her weaving has gotten much worse. She fell over at the oldyard and weaving is the same at the new yard as it was at the old yard.

Sorry to keep repeating myself
 
TB was declared to weave before I got her but it truely was minimal and I knew before I bought her. She didn't weave in old yard (different block from the arab) apart from gently at feed times. She is now facing onto Arab's stable...

QH doesn't weave but is stabled next to Arab and when Shiraz is getting wound up to high doe the QH starts getting a bit stressed/bargey etc.

I have no idea what triggers her. She gets fed at 7am and is fine when I arrive. As soon as they finish I change rugs, pick out feet and turn out. It's at different times during this routine that she will just start. Sometimes she does it later at night when the yard is really quiet and other times when the yard is busy, and then other times she is fine? She always has water, forage, deep bed and company. She's not to hot/cold.

I had a blood test done in April and asked the vet to check for "everything". It came back perfect, don't know much about ulcers but am assuming that it would have shown up in the blood test.

She doesn't need fed as the grass is really good so just gets 1/2 scoop of alfa a, veteran supp, garlic and mint with carrots, apples etc.

I haven't tried a mirror as never had a wall due to grilles etc and now there is only the back wall and you couldn't fix a mirror to it. She has horses on both sides of her so don't think taht she is lonely.

i've never seen her weave in the field but when I go to catch them she is always first at the gate but I catch the other 2 first and she starts swaying and stressing. She has NEVER been left on her own and all 3 come in together.

Maybe she just nuts? I think she's sending me that way!
 
The obvious answer is move her somewhere she can live out 24/7 !!

you clearly get no enjoyment from her and keep saying someone else could, so let someone else loan her, vet the yard and insist she lives out!

you can get rugs that offer uv protection so she can be out.
 
this is prob a long shot, but I read recently that someone had a very stressed horse that weaved and box walked and they had an equine massage therapist over who gave the horse a long treatment - apparently afterwards the horse was very relaxed and it changed his behaviour dramatically....
 
there is no where?

can't live out 24/7 present yard because the YOs don't want the field getting poached. She's been in during winter the whole 9yrs we've had her.

It's her blaze and white socks that get the sun. She has sun chaps and full face muzzle and seperate muzzle guard, plus she gets factor 60+ baby/waterproof sunblock on and still all her hair falls out her face and goes pink. Which is an improvement on the crusty, sore, yellow scabs that it was before I got her. She is really high maintainance.

It's fine saying get a loaner but I can't find find someone to have free rides on her let alone someone to have to look after her (to my standards) and most people wouldn't look 2x a 20yo chestnut arab mare, would you?
 
"She could live out but the YOs don't like them out 24/7 in winter."

I think with a horse like this, where living in is actually causing physical problems, you need to find somewhere she can live out. I think its the only way you can solve this. For your horses health I think you need to find a yard with 24/7 outside, all year round. Sorry its probably not the easiest answer but I do think its one of very few solutions whcih will work. As long as shes in a stable, she will weave, and may hurt herself.

THe stable is the cause of this issue, so to solve the issue, you need to take the stable away. Horses were never designed to live in stables, some cope with it, some (like yours) don't.

Best of luck.
 
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this is prob a long shot, but I read recently that someone had a very stressed horse that weaved and box walked and they had an equine massage therapist over who gave the horse a long treatment - apparently afterwards the horse was very relaxed and it changed his behaviour dramatically....

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My friend is an EBW and Shiraz gets regular massages...improve her "popped" muscles but doesn't seem to chill her out that much. Thanks though, might up it so she has them more often

ETS she also gets mud fever (have all the boots and creams etc) and when she comes in a night it's a chance for her legs to dry, get treated and get her FAL stable boots on (just got them last year and don't know if it was the silver or not but her legs didn't get as bad and cleared up quicker). So would living out 24/7 not make that worse as I couldn't keep boots on 24/7 etc?

Sorry, I'm so awkward
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I agree that she just doesn't like being in the stable. It gets serious when she weaves so bad she falls over so I think living out would be the best option. Is there no chance of renting your own field?
 
"can't live out 24/7 present yard because the YOs don't want the field getting poached. "

Sorry, but then you need to change yards. She sounds like she MUST be outside all the time. Its no good having a broken/hurt stabled horse. Better a healthy outdoor horse. I know its probably really awkward, but this is your horses health at stake
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Best of luck
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there is no where?

can't live out 24/7 present yard because the YOs don't want the field getting poached. She's been in during winter the whole 9yrs we've had her.

It's her blaze and white socks that get the sun. She has sun chaps and full face muzzle and seperate muzzle guard, plus she gets factor 60+ baby/waterproof sunblock on and still all her hair falls out her face and goes pink. Which is an improvement on the crusty, sore, yellow scabs that it was before I got her. She is really high maintainance.

It's fine saying get a loaner but I can't find find someone to have free rides on her let alone someone to have to look after her (to my standards) and most people wouldn't look 2x a 20yo chestnut arab mare, would you?

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Well yes actually I took on a 19yr old.

so there is nowhere at ALL, in your entire area where she can live out in winter, that is highly unlikely! sure it wont be nice seperating them but she cant go on like this, she sounds extremely distressed, and its affecting your other horses.

Equilibrium do Uv chaps now for sunburn.
 
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there is no where?

can't live out 24/7 present yard because the YOs don't want the field getting poached. She's been in during winter the whole 9yrs we've had her.

It's her blaze and white socks that get the sun. She has sun chaps and full face muzzle and seperate muzzle guard, plus she gets factor 60+ baby/waterproof sunblock on and still all her hair falls out her face and goes pink. Which is an improvement on the crusty, sore, yellow scabs that it was before I got her. She is really high maintainance.

It's fine saying get a loaner but I can't find find someone to have free rides on her let alone someone to have to look after her (to my standards) and most people wouldn't look 2x a 20yo chestnut arab mare, would you?

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Well yes actually I took on a 19yr old.

so there is nowhere at ALL, in your entire area where she can live out in winter, that is highly unlikely! sure it wont be nice seperating them but she cant go on like this, she sounds extremely distressed, and its affecting your other horses.

Equilibrium do Uv chaps now for sunburn.

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Most people I know turn their noses up when you mention age as they think she'll be some half dead thing - not likely!!

I have viewed every yard in my area. The yard I am on is out of my area and adds hours onto my day but it has good fields, grass etc etc. I seriously do not know of any grass livery with safe fencing, shelter and water supply in my area.

Even if she's out all winter she HAS to come in during summer because of her sunburn. She has the UV chaps, used them last year and she has the equilibrium full face mask and the muzzle guard and I'm up first thing to put on sunblock, mum up around 10 to bring her in out of midday sun, and then I'm up at night to ride etc, and reapply everything before turning back out. Not stabling isn't really an option for her?

ETA she is turned out just after 7 and brought in 7.30/8 - I try to give her (all of them) as much turn out as possible.
 
Couldn't she stay out in a field with shade? Or a shelter?
I would look twice at a 20 year old arab mare if it was for loan and I was looking....perhaps you need to think about letting her go out of your area though, I got my lad on loan from a home 2 hours drive away?
 
Can't live out where we are and can't find grazing in my area with safe fencing, shelter, water and company.

I haven't advertised her for loan and TBH because I know first hand how frustrating she can be I would worry about letting her go too far away incase she ended up being "punished" for being her...if that makes any sense
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Oh I wouldn't worry too much about that - my lad can drive anyone round the bend but I still love him to bits, as did his ole owner who I loaned him from... She had LOADS of interest from the Equilink Loans site.
 
I agree with some of the people above, I think you should definitely try and get her out in the field 24/7, 365 days a year. Make sure she is adequately rugged and I'm sure you will see an improvement in her behaviour.

If you really want her to start coming in, you could do it gradually (after a period of her being out the whole time). For example, bring her in the stable to feed her then put her out again. Gradually build up the time she spends in so, after feeding, leave her in for 15 mins, 30 mins.. etc. This way, you can watch her behaviour.
 
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I have viewed every yard in my area. The yard I am on is out of my area and adds hours onto my day but it has good fields, grass etc etc. I seriously do not know of any grass livery with safe fencing, shelter and water supply in my area.



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Ok, so what about a farm, or somewhere where she can live in a barn instead of a stable, so she has more room and wont be as stressed.
 
pm me your info, my friend is in Stirling, shes a very good rider & i think she would jump at the chance
 
You might be surprised at the response you get if you put her out for loan. My gelding has had to be retired from competing so I've just put him out on loan. I am very fussy about how my horses are kept, and you said you wouldn't be able to find someone to look after her "to your standards". When you put them out on loan, especially if they are older or have a problem, you probably won't find a person who would keep them like you do, because they're not suitable for that sort of person (does that make sense!?). The lady who has my lovely horse is not a particularly good rider, but just wants to potter about the countryside and love him. He is warm and well fed, and I am just closing my eyes to the fact that his mane and tail have got too long and he's not ridden on the bit any more - it won't kill him and at least he's still being enjoyed. So don't discount loaning if it might give your horse a while longer of useful life. If you could find a loan home with someone who has to keep their horse out 24/7 that would probably solve all your problems and hers.
 
My honest opinion is, if i were you i would either loan her or sell her to someone who would really enjoy her as you said you dont really, someone else would really love her, she sounds lovely and is very pretty so i think it would be possible. They could then either keep her in a large loose box only when absolutely needed and keep her mostly out 24/7. I know that may be hard but i would think that would be best for the mare and you, good luck with it, its a difficult situation for you i can see that
 
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