Help feeding fat pony...

butcher108

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15 October 2020
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Hi guys I need some ideas on what to feed a good doer please... she doesn’t need any hard feed I just want a handful of something low sugar/starch to add her her vits/mins & salt to. I’ve tried fast fibre & hay cobs with lite and healthy chaff but she just turns her nose up 🙄! Any ideas on something healthy that she might eat!!? Thank you 😊
 

butcher108

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15 October 2020
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Spillers Lite + Lean. It's a pelleted balancer with one of the best all round levels of vitamins and minerals, I've fed two laminitcs on it and it keeps them in top condition without affecting their weight and everyone has enjoyed eating it.
Thanks I’ll have a look
 

butcher108

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15 October 2020
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Spillers Lite + Lean. It's a pelleted balancer with one of the best all round levels of vitamins and minerals, I've fed two laminitcs on it and it keeps them in top condition without affecting their weight and everyone has enjoyed eating it.
I’m sure she’d love it but I’d rather feed something without molasses if I can
 

windand rain

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Most palatable feeds are not good due to molasses so I feed a small amount of soaked grass nuts and grasstastic chaff to carry their vitamins. The other alternative is to give equibite vitamins in a bucket
 

butcher108

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Most palatable feeds are not good due to molasses so I feed a small amount of soaked grass nuts and grasstastic chaff to carry their vitamins. The other alternative is to give equibite vitamins in a bucket
Yeah that’s what I’m finding. What about speedibeet is that appealing? What grass nuts do you use?
 

windand rain

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Emerald green grassnut and their grasstastic chaff all grown about 4 miles away and all chemical free no weedkiller or fertilisers used nuts are about £8.50 a bag and last 5 ponies a month chaff is a tenner and lasts them more than 1 but not quite 2 months.
 

ownedbyaconnie

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Emerald green grassnut and their grasstastic chaff all grown about 4 miles away and all chemical free no weedkiller or fertilisers used nuts are about £8.50 a bag and last 5 ponies a month chaff is a tenner and lasts them more than 1 but not quite 2 months.
Do you give the grass nuts in place of pony nuts? Mine gets honeychop and a handful of pony nuts and I've put so much thought in to her chaff and realised I've never really thought much about the nuts side. I couldn't even tell you why I give them, I'm pretty sure she'd eat the chaff on its own.
 

dreamcometrue

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Another vote for Spillers Lite and Lean. Provides all the vitamins and minerals and horses love it so you don’t need to add anything to it. It is fed in very small amounts therefore the molasses makes a negligible contribution. My pony had EMS and is now clear and has been fed this throughout the lengthy weight loss period.
 

windand rain

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Yes too much rubbish in ponynuts but grass nuts are just grass and no pelleting agents. Also chemical free. I haven't fed ponynuts for 20 years since watching them being made and all the rubbish thrown into the machine sweeping off the floor including sand and grain
 

PurBee

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Beet pulp unmollassed pellets are easy to get in farm stores - cheap too around 10 quid for 20-25kg. Its a very low calories, high fibre feed so ideal for fatties. I use it as a carrier for vits for my 2 who arent fatties. Half kilo soaked pellets each Horse. I soak the pellets in hot water for an hour, drain, sqeeze out excess water and feed. Cold water soaking takes about 3-4hrs.
If you cant find unmollassed beet pellets, soak the mollassed ones and drain, rinse, all the molasses is washed off.

If you cant be spending time with soaking beet pulp, then the other suggestions are great.
 

PurBee

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Emerald green grassnut and their grasstastic chaff all grown about 4 miles away and all chemical free no weedkiller or fertilisers used nuts are about £8.50 a bag and last 5 ponies a month chaff is a tenner and lasts them more than 1 but not quite 2 months.
i love EG forage, emailed them a while back, really friendly helpful farmers.

Its not commonly known in the horse industry, but 1 commonly used weedkiller, in studies in rats, were dosed with the weedkiller, and within 14 days put on weight. Thats rapid weight gain if can be seen in 14 days. This particular weed killer is allowed to be present in hay at 50ppm, while all other food crops the legal detection rate is 0.3-6ppm. So many forage animals are getting quite a dose of these hormone-altering herbicides.
One recent study circulated linking hormone altering agro chemicals with EMS/lami conditions in equines. It’s all under the radar at the moment, but i suspect it’ll soon within a few years have a light shone on the sharp curve of equine metabolic disorders align with increased use of agri-chemicals.

Organic forage for any EMS/cushing/lami-prone equine is a wise preventative move to make.
 

brighteyes

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Yeah that’s what I’m finding. What about speedibeet is that appealing? What grass nuts do you use?
Speedibeet is safe but I think you might be over-worrying about the mins and vits, I really do. Have you read up on what Dr David Ramey DVM has to say on 'supplementing'? Or any other thing. He's excellent.
https://www.doctorramey.com/supplements/
 

chaps89

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Surrey
i love EG forage, emailed them a while back, really friendly helpful farmers.

Its not commonly known in the horse industry, but 1 commonly used weedkiller, in studies in rats, were dosed with the weedkiller, and within 14 days put on weight. Thats rapid weight gain if can be seen in 14 days. This particular weed killer is allowed to be present in hay at 50ppm, while all other food crops the legal detection rate is 0.3-6ppm. So many forage animals are getting quite a dose of these hormone-altering herbicides.
One recent study circulated linking hormone altering agro chemicals with EMS/lami conditions in equines. It’s all under the radar at the moment, but i suspect it’ll soon within a few years have a light shone on the sharp curve of equine metabolic disorders align with increased use of agri-chemicals.

Organic forage for any EMS/cushing/lami-prone equine is a wise preventative move to make.
That's fascinating. Did they give amounts/ratios of weedkiller to have the effect on weight?
Only because I'm thinking most EMS/good doers (who this would effect) are likely to be on tiny feeds anyway. So might it be a non-issue if it's small quantities of feed and therefore the weedkiller? (Clearly none is better than any at all but I'm curious how much it would have to be to make a difference and if it realistically would in a horse on small volumes of feed) very interesting though!
Sorry to thread-jack OP!
 

PurBee

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That's fascinating. Did they give amounts/ratios of weedkiller to have the effect on weight?
Only because I'm thinking most EMS/good doers (who this would effect) are likely to be on tiny feeds anyway. So might it be a non-issue if it's small quantities of feed and therefore the weedkiller? (Clearly none is better than any at all but I'm curious how much it would have to be to make a difference and if it realistically would in a horse on small volumes of feed) very interesting though!
Sorry to thread-jack OP!
hi chaps,

The studies specifying weight gain were for toxicity loading of rats. The doses varied but they were high dosages of skin patch test aswell as oral. The oral groups got ill, various symptoms yet still, unusually for any species when ill, gained weight.

I find the weight gain noted over the 14 day test period to be very intriguing, because the class of hormone herbicides commonly used, interfere with hormone signalling to kill the weed. Thats their ‘modus operandi’.
The hormone system of mammals is what keeps us alive and functioning.

If we humans and our animals are eating food laced in hormone-altering herbicides, the accumulative dose over years of consuming these foods, would produce an ever-increasing statistic of hormone-related illnesses in the population, and in our animals.
I’d link all that statistical info but it would choke this post, to show that, this indeed is what has been happening. Increased use of hormone-altering herbicides on crops since the 60/70s, certainly more commonly used late 80’s globally, with an ever increasing number of endocrine pathologies in mammals.

The toxicity studies were an abnormal high dose than what any animal would ingest or be dermally exposed to via forage. Yet we have to consider the cumulative accrual of herbicides on hay, over the months/years that animals are fed forage coated with the herbicides, as studies also show there is high clearance of them from the body unchanged/metabolised via poop/urine channels, yet not 100% clearance, so some remains within the body tissues (mainly found in gut lining, liver, kidneys) and therefore we can know that a cumulative amount within animals is occurring.

The studies below show that after the study period, and dosage stopped the animals recovered. This is key, because we never stop eating herbicide-laced human food, nor do our grazing animals ever get a rest from consuming even higher than human food doses of eating hay. So micro doses are ever-circulating throughout the years of ingestion, and we have the global animal and human populations and the common endorine pathologies presented that show the longterm effects of micro-dosing hormone disrupting chemicals in the diet.


warning - below wall of text sample from 4 different dose studies!:



Link here:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Aminopyralid#section=Non-Human-Toxicity-Excerpts

2.1.2Non-Human Toxicity Excerpts
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/LABORATORY ANIMALS: Acute Exposure/ Groups of five overnight-fasted male and female Fischer 344 rats received aminopyralid (purity: 94.5%) at a dose of 5000 mg/kg bw by gavage as two doses at 2500 mg/kg administered with an interval of 1 hr, as a 50% mixture in 0.5% aqueous methylcellulose. The rats were observed for mortality, clinical signs and body-weight development during the 14 days after dosing and were then necropsied. One male rat died on test day 3, its appearance before death being consistent with a moribund condition. Clinical observations in the surviving rats revealed a high incidence of various combinations of perineal, perioral and perinasal soiling, watery faeces and a lower incidence of periocular soiling, decreases in muscle tone, resistance to removal, extensor-thrust, and reactivity to handling were observed. All surviving animals recovered completely by the time of study termination. Four rats had transient body-weight loss during the first week of the study, but all rats gained weight over the duration of the study. On necropsy, the male that died had treatment-related gross findings consisting of haemolysis, gas in the gastrointestinal tract and perineal soiling. Surviving animals had no treatment-related gross pathological changes
WHO/FAO; Joint Meeting on Pesticide Residues Evaluation for Aminopyralid (150114-71-9) p.9 (2005). Available from,as of June 17, 2011: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v2007pr01.pdf
Hazardous Substances Data Bank (HSDB)
/LABORATORY ANIMALS: Acute Exposure/ Groups of five overnight fasted male and female Fischer 344 rats received a single dose of undiluted GF-871 (41.9% aminopyralid TIPA) at a dose of 5000 mg/kg bw (equivalent to a dose of aminopyralid of 1085 mg/kg bw) by gavage. The rats were observed for mortality, clinical signs and body-weight development during the next 14 days and were then necropsied. The study complied with GLP. All animals survived the 14-day observation period and gained weight. Clinical observations consisted of bilateral cloudy eyes in all animals on day 1, lacrimation, watery or soft feces and soiling of the periocular and/or perineal regions. All clinical signs resolved by test day 4. No treatment-related pathological changes were observed. /Aminopyralid TIPA/
WHO/FAO; Joint Meeting on Pesticide Residues Evaluation for Aminopyralid (150114-71-9) p.10 (2005). Available from,as of June 17, 2011: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v2007pr01.pdf
Hazardous Substances Data Bank (HSDB)
/LABORATORY ANIMALS: Acute Exposure/ Five male and five female Fischer 344 rats were treated by dermal patch application for 24 hr with aminopyralid (purity, 94.5%) at a dose of 5000 mg/kg bw, moistened with 0.5 mL of 0.5% aqueous methylcellulose. The rats were observed for mortality, clinical signs and body-weight development during the next 14 days and were then necropsied. The study complied with GLP. All animals survived the 14-day observation period. Clinical observations consisted of perioral soiling in one male and two females on test day 1 or 2 and periocular soiling in one male on test day 1. All animals lost weight by test day 2, but gained weight over the remainder of the study. There were no gross pathological observations.
WHO/FAO; Joint Meeting on Pesticide Residues Evaluation for Aminopyralid (150114-71-9) p.10 (2005). Available from,as of June 17, 2011: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v2007pr01.pdf
Hazardous Substances Data Bank (HSDB)
/LABORATORY ANIMALS: Acute Exposure/ Five male and five female Fischer 344 rats were treated by dermal patch application for 24 hr with GF-871 (41.9% aminopyralid TIPA) at a dose of 5000 mg/kg bw (equivalent to aminopyralid at a dose of 1085 mg/kg bw). The rats were observed for mortality, clinical signs and body-weight development during the next 14 days and were then necropsied. The study complied with GLP. All animals survived the 14-day observation period. After a body-weight loss on test day 2 in all animals, all animals gained weight over the remainder of the study. Clinical observations consisted of perineal soiling in one male and reddening of the skin on the test site in two males. There were no gross pathological observations. /Aminopyralid TIPA/
WHO/FAO; Joint Meeting on Pesticide Residues Evaluation for Aminopyralid (150114-71-9) p.10 (2005). Available from,as of June 17, 2011: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v2007pr01.pdf
 
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