Help guys, i really need your vast experience.

[barkinghorse]

Right here goes,
William has always been "funny" with his mouth, i have had the vet check his teeth and the dentist has checked his bit seat.
I have tried various regular bits and he has always given me the feeling of grabbing the bit and going heavy in my hands, almost like he gets hold of it and bears down whilst cocking his head to one side or the other.
Tonight i tried a waterford to see if that stopped it, but still the same "sensation".
By a stroke of luck i was sat on him talking to my friend on the yard when he did it, She looked at me in disbelief and said "have you seen what he does with the bit? How on earth do you ride him while he does that!!"
He did it again and she described to me what he did.
Apparently, he curls his tongue right up into his mouth and pushes it down hard on the bit, as though to push the bit out of his mouth.
Question is, what sort of bit can stop this?
Have tried him in a flash but that doesn't stop it, He doesn't try to get his tongue over the bit, just pushes down on it.
Having never come across this before i don't know what route to take, so your
imput would be greatly valued.
This probably explains why i don't feel comfortable asking him for canter!

Thanks guys in advance.
Jo xx

 

[Ginn]

Perhaps a hackamore thus removing the bit from his mouth?

 

[barkinghorse]

He's young and green, didn't really want to go down that route yet, thought that there maybe a new fangled bit out there that would help first. (plus hackamores scare the s**t out of me!)
Jo xx

 

[Fleur100]

I break youngsters and find that a bit with a port mouth helps with this sort of problem. The other route you can try is to hack out in a double bridle without a curb chain. That encourages them to play with the bits, then you can go back to a conventional bit.

 

[Louby]

My horse does exactly the same!!! Its awful isnt it.
Ive had awful trouble and have tried every bit going including ported mouthpieces, Sprenger, Neue Schule, Myler, Happy Mouth, Normal snaffle variations, hackamore infact everything. The best hes been is with a hanging cheek and most recently he has walked without doing it in a Neue Schule Verdiband, start to trot and off he goes again. Ive used a Flash and drop but due to his overactive mouth they rub him. Its a nightmare. My experienced friend says to ignore it and push him forward, giving him plenty to think about ie change flexion etc. He also started as a four year old and is now 7, does it on the lunge too. I think its an evasion thats developed into a habit.
Please please let me know if you find a cure.

 

[tiggersdad]

Ive only been riding 45 years and only looked in fifteen thousand horses mouths so far. From what you describe your horse is uncomfortable in the mouth and has consistent pain when taking up the contact. On a daily basis I see horses with biting problems but the normal solution is to invest heavily with the bit makers rather than eliminate the pain the horse is suffering. From what you descibe the horse has sharp teeth sticking into its cheek under its masseter muscles. These are difficult to rasp and often ignored.

 

[barkinghorse]

I have had his mouth x rayed to see if there are any teeth that are causing pain, this was my first port of call.
All seems fine and his teeth are checked every 6 mths.
We have also given him strong pain killers over a period of time to see if that showed up anything and nothing changed.
I am am at a loss what else to do other than try different bits, Someone said that maybe because he was a racehorse he was never mouthed properly, but i rebroke him last year and spent 2 months just breaking him to the bit.
Jo xx

 

[miamibear]

My old horse used to do exactuly the same, in turn this made him strong.

The best bit for him was a waterford as it moved with the contours of his mouth, i would try a low ported bit such as a myler, the release of the tongue pressure in his mouth may make him stop doing it.

Basically he is trying to get away from the pressure on his tongue and i am presuming he has a very big tongue.

Its a huge issue and im afraid i never found a miracle cure, its just trial and error.

Try calling Heather at Neue Schule bits

Best of luck

 

[dunc_n_toby]

Did you turn him away before rebreaking? what did you mouth him with? how about trying a breaking bit with keys on?

 

[barkinghorse]

Yes, he was turned away for 8 mths.
I used i key bit with he and he quite liked it, but when he started doing it, i started to change bits.
Jo xx

 

[Triskar]

Does he do it in a french link snaffle? I've used this for my ex-racehorses and they all seemed to go well in it.

 

[Happy Bird]

The above advice given is probably a lot more than I could contribute

, but what about a tongue guard. I have seen black rubber ones used on racehorses. Think they're only a couple of quid too ????

 

[flyingfeet]

You could try a tongue bit - this one is double jointed, so no nutcraker and he should find it hard to get his tongue back far enough to push it down.

If he is generally happy in himself (you've already covered teeth), its probably just a phase, so you'll be able to retrain him in one of these and then swop back to a more regular bit.

 

[Louby]

My horse is the one with the same problem as yours. I forgot to add that he also has had his teeth extensively checked as I have too every 6 mths as he had a cheek tooth removed under GA. Didnt think to put it in my earlier post and it does look like Ive tried loads of bits without checking the obvious.
Had a little breakthrough today. Wierd really how it happened after reading this last night. On my lesson today, my instructor made me really aware of just how light we should be with our hands and he went so much better. Im not heavy handed or anything but I realised that I dont give to him as much as I should and he does lean a little and I let him. Every time he leant slightly, I would give and take with my fingers and hand and stop him, immediately giving once he responded. He felt great.

 

[barkinghorse]

I have a new instructor starting with me in a week, so i am going to wait and see what she advises.
I do tend to fight back with him, so maybe you have hit the nail on the head with the hands thing!!
This new instructor is a dressage coach, (and very expensive i might add) so i am hoping she will strip my riding back to basics which is where the problem probably lies.
I will let you know how i get on, at the moment i am giving him the benefit of the doubt and putting it down to rider error.
Jo xx

 

[barkinghorse]

Ooh i like the look of that!!
Do you know where i can get one from?
Jo xx

 

[Louby]

Good luck with your new trainer. Mine is an experienced dressage trainer too and we have been together a couple of years now. I too blame myself and today proved it a little. It was if my boy was saying 'thank christ youve let go of my mouth.... yes I will go nicely now' Its been a long hard slog but things are finally coming together. Trainer has the patience of a saint!
Oh you can get that bit from Shop4bits, Ive thought about it too but they dont do it in my size. Boo Hoo.

 

[barkinghorse]

Who's your trainer? i'm in Greater Manchester too!!
Pm me if you don't want to say
Jo xx

 

[Lark]

My mare was incredibly difficult to bit and I was at the point of trying a hackamore - which to event in is a little dodgy.

I found the Mickmar Bit extremely good - it looks quite scary but is extremely light with a full copper rotating disk (nearly like a mouse run).

It does need to be fitted correctly. But when it is, it is extremely effective without being harsh. [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]