Help! Hind End Lameness?! Lunging is vets advice?

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HorseyStar

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Sorry Long Post!
Welsh Cob been grumpy to work with for past approx 2-3 months, started resenting being tacked up, ears back, bucking and rodeoing constantly, then will have days where he works well and other days where he seems to be struggling and carries a funny gait sometimes like his back right leg/hip etc is giving way on him (funny to explain)..after reading further up on his symptoms i thought it may be stifle issues, as when i massaged his stifle/hop area on the right everytime i touched a certain spot his leg dropped?!! anyways, i have spent a fortune on so called professioanls, new saddle 500 quid, vet out to check him, vet says he's fine just needs lunging to strengthen him up?...ride horse...horse still bucking and not happy bout something, get physio out? she never picked anything up....ges vet back out AGAIN today, only really checks his back, then trotted him up and checked his hind legs, says there slightly weak and need srengthening up i.e lots of ridden hill work, lots of lunging etc....problem is yesterday when we went to ride him poor horse could barely walk out of stable he seemed that lame? got vet out, vet is telling me to ride him and build him / strengthen him up?? he said bucking is out of naughtinnesS!? but i am just not happy at all to ride a lame horse and its becomming dangerous as he seems to really be unhappy about being ridden and is becomming dangerous, humping, bucking, broncoing, rodeiong, running off, hollowing back etc etc...i seriously am soo annoyed that not 1 professional as picked anything up when it is very obvious that there is soemthing going on?....
vet says he has weak hind and was just born that way??!! great that helps me out a lot!!.....but never even felt the areas that i massaged on him the other day, he only stayed approx 25 minutes cos horse wa sbeing nervy around him and wouldnt really let him near his legs, so dont think vet cud be bothered to put up with him being silly to try and even check all his hind area out, but then left it at 'if his weakness is still occuring by May he will need to have an operation?'.....ahem, operation for what?? you havent diagniosed him with anything yet? - i have read thought that stifle probs need strangthening up and muscle development, but how do you do this when the horse is showing lame thru it? vet didint actualyl say a diagnosis for 'hind weakness' i am just presuming it may be his stifle area cos vet doesnt seem to think theres anything wrong...he is also in and out of lameness and can seem really horrendous the very odd day and then absolutely fine a day or so later for weeks then back again....strange!
surely he should have done some flexion tests etc etc?? he also said he doesnt need box rest and can be turned out? v v strange....
i now have a whole in my pocket after all these professioanls seem to be taking my money and running and cnt really afford to go anywhere from here? although i am insured with Petplan! thankgod!!
what would you do people? lunge him even though he luks lame? or box rest or work him thru it? ust fed up and feel sorry for him as horses dont lie and the days he has loooked lame must be coming from somewhere surely?!....
any ideas??
p.s its defo a problem from his hind area not his fronts....iv had a physio...
what about a chiro??
id also say viewing him from behind he looks slightly cow-hocked?? his hind legs stick out rather than underneath him...but strangley enough his paces are maginificient, he has paces to die for, floaty canter, elegant high stepping fronts with his trot, he cant be lunged in a pessoa either as he will not tolerate anything whatso ever around his bum / hip area including a big fight when trying to longrein him! nitemare!!
any suggestions?!..im seriously debating taking him a proper hospital to get xrays done on his hind area...but how much will that cost!! :/
 
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My mums horse has a problem that sounds very similar to yours and it was certainly a problem with his stifle.
Can't remember what the vet officially caused it, but basically it was being caused by the ligaments in the horse's stifle being too tight and restricting and causing the horse to look like it was giving way sometimes.
The ligaments that were causing this are the one's that the horse normally use to stand up when asleep.
The vets advice to us was to improve muscle tone and condition and continue to exercise past the symptoms that he showed as if we improved his muscle tone symptoms should reduce.
We did this and we did notice a marked improvement in the condition very rapidly. He also advised that the more turn out the better as standing in the stable would cause the condition to deteriorate as the horse would use these ligaments in the 'locked' position more. My mum does keep her boy in at night in winter but he gets turned out early, brought in late and ridden or longed most days, he now 1 year on hardly shows any symptoms at all.
The vet did also say that they can sometimes grow out of it, and that if we couldn't manage it with routine/exercise and once the horse reached 5.5yo if it hadn't corrected there was an operation which involved making holes in the ligaments (keyhole surgery) to make them more stretchy.
He went into great detail drawing diagrams for us of how it all worked but it's very difficult to describe on here! Hope if this does sound like what your horse has that this is of some comfort to you.
 
I was advised to lunge my mare when she was lame several years ago, and I wasn't very happy with the advice. Mind you, the vet seemed to be convinced I was being a hypochondriac owner and that she just had a touch of arthritis. In the end we got a third opinion (don't ask, it was a nightmare!), were referred to a physio, who referred us to a remedial farrier for some feet xrays. Turned out Mr Blacksmith had really taken his eye of the ball and the poor girls feet were a mess. Her problem was at the front though, although the vet who gave the third opinion originally thought she might have damaged her pelvis because the problem in her front feet was causing her to hold herself very oddly. Obviously I'm not saying that this is the problem with your horse, but I would consider getting a second opinion (although without telling them the prognosis of your original vet before hand) just to see what they come up with.
 
HashRouge said:
Turned out Mr Blacksmith had really taken his eye of the ball and the poor girls feet were a mess. Her problem was at the front though, although the vet who gave the third opinion originally thought she might have damaged her pelvis because the problem in her front feet was causing her to hold herself very oddly. Obviously I'm not saying that this is the problem with your horse, but I would consider getting a second opinion (although without telling them the prognosis of your original vet before hand) just to see what they come up with.
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This is almost exactly what our horse had, a pelvic issue except her hinds were worse than fronts. She's having remedial farriery and regular check ups with a chiro and (touch wood) is better
 
My boy's gait changed behind, did not go lame but I knew something was wrong, vet, physio, chiropracter etc all said keep working him. It was the wrong advice, I now have a horse that I may not be able to ride again. He should have been rested. It took me 10 months to get the correct diagnosis, strained hind suspensory ligament, now damage is permanent. Have turned him away for a year and dream that maybe I will be able to hack him lightly again..Trust your instinct you know your horse better than anyone.:(
 
My horse has had issues similar to this and indeed, Upwards Fixation of the Patella has been talked about in his case.

Now I'm not so sure about lunging as that really is quite strenuos work, but certainly the vets told me to exercise him through it, hill work etc and it would improve as the muscles in the area strengthened and he grew into his body (he was actually better built behind but had nothing up front for a while, so generally unbalanced).

I must say that it has improved, considerably, although if he's been laid off for a length of time he can be a bit stuffy again. Having been through vets and chiros though, having consulted closely with my RI who knows my horse really well, I do try not to fret about it and now I'm confident that this was the case. I did a lot of long reining up and down the hills almost exclusivley for about 6 weeks initially and this helped him no end. He's now 7 by the way, and I've ahd him since he was 4.5
 
showqa said:
My horse has had issues similar to this and indeed, Upwards Fixation of the Patella has been talked about in his case.

Now I'm not so sure about lunging as that really is quite strenuos work, but certainly the vets told me to exercise him through it, hill work etc and it would improve as the muscles in the area strengthened and he grew into his body (he was actually better built behind but had nothing up front for a while, so generally unbalanced).
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funny you should say that cos i got my boy at 5 yrs old last year and his back end is built well but still not much upfront??...and balance issues... the vet did mention Stifle issue and said he would need an op in May if he didnt improve with work......

can this make them buck? cos he's been bucking hard for a few months....

oh and thank you sooo much to everyone that has replied so far, it has put my mind at ease slightly that it is something that we can possibly get round...
 
tamaramccart said:
My mums horse has a problem that sounds very similar to yours and it was certainly a problem with his stifle.
Can't remember what the vet officially caused it, but basically it was being caused by the ligaments in the horse's stifle being too tight and restricting and causing the horse to look like it was giving way sometimes.
The ligaments that were causing this are the one's that the horse normally use to stand up when asleep.
The vets advice to us was to improve muscle tone and condition and continue to exercise past the symptoms that he showed as if we improved his muscle tone symptoms should reduce.
We did this and we did notice a marked improvement in the condition very rapidly. He also advised that the more turn out the better as standing in the stable would cause the condition to deteriorate as the horse would use these ligaments in the 'locked' position more. My mum does keep her boy in at night in winter but he gets turned out early, brought in late and ridden or longed most days, he now 1 year on hardly shows any symptoms at all.
The vet did also say that they can sometimes grow out of it, and that if we couldn't manage it with routine/exercise and once the horse reached 5.5yo if it hadn't corrected there was an operation which involved making holes in the ligaments (keyhole surgery) to make them more stretchy.
He went into great detail drawing diagrams for us of how it all worked but it's very difficult to describe on here! Hope if this does sound like what your horse has that this is of some comfort to you.
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oh yes it definately sounds the same....and this must be the operation teh vet was going on about, maybe iv been a bit harsh on the vet a litt.e perhaps i wasnt listening properly cos come to think about ti he did mention stifle problems, was your mums horse bucking with it? vet recons that it just naughtiness...? so when he appears lame and is dropping his hind leg, do i still work him lunge him as advised by vet? just feel a bit awful asking him to work when he is like this....? but he does appear instantly better once he has been stretched out and iv read up on it and have heard that keepin them stabled on 'rest' makes them worse...and the mre turnout and exercise the better...nly trouble is we have no hills near our hacking?? x
 
I think your idea of sending him to an equine hospital and having a thorough examination done is probably the best idea. I've usually found that in the long run this approach actually works out cheaper than numerous visits from the local vets.
 
quite a gree with TMG get a specilait equine orthopedic vet to look at him. mine had very simmilar symptoms it took lots of investigation but finally diagnosied with spinal artritis though x rays and ultrasound.
Had it not been for my vet being a orthopedic vet and verythorgher this may have been missed as not easy to diagnsoed and the symptoms were so vaired and could have been anything.
her main problmes were:
slight hindlimb lamness/ gait variation
reluctant to work and resistant in the school
backing off leg not wanting to go forwars worse on right rein
unable to canter on right rein and very uncomftable on left rein
on lunge would canter disnited
At one stage just bucked on right rein in trot or canter
would also just plant on the right rein
was having to have phsyio every three weeks to stay freeish
also got very grumpy being tacked up when previously had always been fine

there was no one symptom as such just lots of little ones.
good luck but would def go for full work up
 
I was originally going to suggest that you get a second opinion bt it appears that the vet DID in fact diagnose the "lameness" - not just as hindlimb weakness. I suggest you ring the pratice tomorrow and ask to speak to the vet/get him to ring back if hes out and explain that because you were soworried you didnt really understand what he was saying and would he mind going through it with you. Its not uncommon for that to happen, vets are well aware that owners often take in very very little of what we say when they are worried about their pets. Just make sure you've made a list of all the questions you want to ask beforehand so you dont forget and write down the answers!

BTW - upwards fixated patella is very common in young cob types and sounds very much like this is the problem. I agree with handwalking and lunging and havng your cob turned out 24/7 if at all possible - its the best system for him.
 
glenruby said:
I was originally going to suggest that you get a second opinion bt it appears that the vet DID in fact diagnose the "lameness" - not just as hindlimb weakness. I suggest you ring the pratice tomorrow and ask to speak to the vet/get him to ring back if hes out and explain that because you were soworried you didnt really understand what he was saying and would he mind going through it with you. Its not uncommon for that to happen, vets are well aware that owners often take in very very little of what we say when they are worried about their pets. Just make sure you've made a list of all the questions you want to ask beforehand so you dont forget and write down the answers!

BTW - upwards fixated patella is very common in young cob types and sounds very much like this is the problem. I agree with handwalking and lunging and havng your cob turned out 24/7 if at all possible - its the best system for him.
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thanks for this, it is very very useful to know! i have spoken to the vet since and he did say something about the stifle, which i thnk is UFP...(sorry im quite thick with things like this) but he is a young cob and the vet said more than likely he was born this way, but can get around it with like you say exercise and turnout etc, however i have noticed he wa son just hay and grass and with more workload since introducing feed his symptoms have worsened? not sure whether feed can have an impact on the symptoms?? i have been told that the 'odd' day symptoms are visible he appears to an untrained eye lame, when in actual fact he is stiff and i mad ethe mistake when i forst noticed it of puttin him on box rest, which of course only emphasised the symptoms as he couldnt loosed up etc....so i am told to ride him through it next time, it does seem to be only off days he has and only a mild case, but vet has said if by May after a vigirous fitness programme :eek: symptoms still occur he may have to consider having a small op to help? i think this involves stretching the ligaments or something?? but i am hoping this doesnt need to happen :(

however both the vet and physion have said the bucking is defo out of naughtiness! if you met him you would kinda know it was too! because he is soo cheeky you can just see it in his face! he he.... when i first bought him he was as fit as a fiddle and in daily work, but due to his sore back and snow we had he was laid of for 6 weeks with lots of hay in his belly and became unfit which is when symptoms started re-occuring!....

i must admit keeping him in work the last few days i have noticed his paces improving already, and i am moving yard next week to accommodate him, which has lots of hills around teh hacking to build his hind and also gives me an option to keep him living out 24/7 which again i have read will improve him, and he is so hot that i am hoping it will take some 'edge' of him with his behaviour etc! i am also worried he is a rig! :eek: he seems to want to mount every mare we pass....with me on him!!! :confused:

thanks for opinions so far guys!! x
 
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