Help!! Horse tanks at jumps!

YoungNag22

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Hi everyone. A friend of mine is in need of some help with her ex showjumper. He is an absolute dream on the ground and to school but the minute a jump goes up, big or small he absolutely fires and tanks towards, over and away. Tried to re school him over smaller fences and poles for confidence, tried going with it, tried circling, trotting into, various different bits over the past few years (which have made absolutely no difference) and all sorts of different exercises and grids. The problem she is finding is how strong he is, Once he has locked on there is nothing she can do to slow him and it is getting very frustrating for her now. Any hints, tips or useful things to try for her? Thanks for your time!! :)
 

PorkChop

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My first thought was are you absolutely sure he is not in any pain? Especially as this is a fairly long term problem.

Has she had her instructor or someone really experienced sit on him?

Is he a horse that was a decent showjumper before your friend bought him? He may be set in his ways if this is the case.
 

YoungNag22

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Hi LJR thanks for your message. Pain is 100% ruled out he receives massage and chiro every other month and they are very pleased with how he is at the moment, master saddle fitter out recently and all fine and farrier has also said he is in very good shape. She has lessons every other week with her instructor but has thought about having a professional get on him recently. He is an ex 1.40m horse as far as she is aware but doesn't know anymore about his past unfortunately!
 

JillA

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How old? Because the older they are the harder habits are to change. I would start walking around among jumps - no more than a walk until he can do that in a relaxed fashion. Then progress to trot, in small snatches and back to walk, until he is relaxed doing that.
The answer is to get him relaxed, and to get him engaging his hinds - I would guess he is on his forehand and if so, the only way he CAN jump is very fast.
 

YoungNag22

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He is an older boy, he's 19 but isn't in himself at all and absolutely would say he is set in his ways. Which to an extent is fine, she just really needs to kind of breaks. It's interesting what you say about being on the forehand as when he schools he is extremely balanced and uphill. The most she will ever want him to do is 80cm unaffiliated but I will suggest restarting with the walking and progressing slowly. Thanks!
 

PorkChop

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Hi LJR thanks for your message. Pain is 100% ruled out he receives massage and chiro every other month and they are very pleased with how he is at the moment, master saddle fitter out recently and all fine and farrier has also said he is in very good shape. She has lessons every other week with her instructor but has thought about having a professional get on him recently. He is an ex 1.40m horse as far as she is aware but doesn't know anymore about his past unfortunately!

Fair enough :)

Therefore, considering his age, his experience and the likelihood that he has been ridden by a professional or extremely competant amateur my feeling is that it is your friend that will have to learn to ride him in a certain way.

Bare in mind, a horse that has competed at 1.40's will have to be brave and have a "let me at them" approach to jumping.

It could also be that the height your friend wants to jump does not back him off enough.

What is he like through a grid? There are lots of grids to try that will make him back right off his fences, the other advantage to a grid is that you are able to put the fences up a bit once you get the right formula, even with a rider that wouldn't usually jump that height of fence in a course.
 

YoungNag22

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LJR thanks again, this is all very helpful. The combination of horse and rider is absolutely lovely now it is just going for the jumps, so maybe saying just go with it?

So you also think increasing the heights may help back him off too? He is ace down grids but will still tank towards the first jump. If he does this and doesn't concentrate too (like any horse) sometimes mid judgments and trips will go on but at excelerated speed it's not as easy to rectify other than hope they will sort themselves out! He is such a lovely horse in every other way!!
 

PorkChop

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LJR thanks again, this is all very helpful. The combination of horse and rider is absolutely lovely now it is just going for the jumps, so maybe saying just go with it?

So you also think increasing the heights may help back him off too? He is ace down grids but will still tank towards the first jump. If he does this and doesn't concentrate too (like any horse) sometimes mid judgments and trips will go on but at excelerated speed it's not as easy to rectify other than hope they will sort themselves out! He is such a lovely horse in every other way!!

Not necessarily go with it, because if your friend is out of control and the horse is just getting quicker and quicker, it could be a disaster!

Has your friend tried a different instructor? One that has or is competing at a high level? If you find the right one it will be well worth the money.
 

ester

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I suspect he thinks he knows better than the rider ;) the heights are potentially small for him (even my little squirt is a tit if they are small much better with more to back him off) I think she needs to learn to work with him within reason :)
 

puppystitch

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If he was competed at 1.40, especially by a professional, that is how they've been trained to go unfortunately! I've jumped one like that, and it was terrifying - she knew what to do and we were off - she really took me to the fences. Once he's at speed (albeit faster than you want) does he keep the rhythm nicely?
 

YoungNag22

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I definitely think putting the fences up will probably help him, it is very difficult to do that though and be brave when they are the way he is! Well I watched him go down a grid last weekend and he yanked but then did stay at the same speed all the way down the grid. Over summer in the field he just tanked to the jump and then pretty much took off across most of the field! It was funny at the time but obviously not what anyone wants!! He is currently in a happy mouth straight bar Pelham with a curb strap and rounding a which he still tanks through when the jump is in front of him. I don't think there will ever be a bit to stop this only retraining to an extent. I just want her to be able to have fun and enjoy it!
 

ljohnsonsj

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Yes sounds like one of my old horses, the first 'horse' I had off ponies actually! Much more experianced than me and by god did she let me know!

He sounds like he needs reining in a little. When schooling lots of changes of rein/transitions/rein back halt-canter and back up etc. Don't go at the same jump twice in a row, keep him guessing! Jumps are a bit small for him probably but he can still remember his manners. Don't let him jump from the silly pace for now and when jumping at home. If he rushes pull him round and circle him and keep doing so until he gains even a little bit of respect. On landing if he is rushing I like to pull them up after a few strides, main thing is to keep him guessing! She'll learn a lot from a horse like this, I did!
 

ljohnsonsj

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I also just read that he is in a pellham. I don't think it suits a horse like this it just gives them more to lean and run against. I had my mare in the neue schule elevator, although on paper it wasn't the bit for her this worked really well and I could just hold her at a nice point, neither of us had too much hold over each other, and I tried everything!
 

paddi22

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theres a chance he was probably ridden by a pro with a lot more core strength and strength in their seat to keep him together and not just flattening out in a faster pace. does the horse do it with a much stronger rider on it?

Either that or i'd check for stuff like arthritis in the hoks. i had one that had it and it caused him to tense and tank around courses as he was anticipating pain.
 

YoungNag22

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Ljohnsons sounds like you have been in the exact same situation and know how she's feeling. I do agree he should still have some respect and manners! Will suggest and elevator also thought about a myler combination? Like the idea of keeping his mind really occupied and guessing on the work too!!

Paddi22 it is a possibility, all she knows is he did big stuff when he was younger over in Ireland but she doesn't know anymore than that sadly. I haven't seen him with a stronger rider or professional on board but it is something my friend is thinking about getting just too see what he does and for advice etc. Will also suggest about the arthritis thanks 😁
 

Mrs B

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(As an aside, I keep reading this thread title as 'Help!! Horse jumps at tanks!' and thinking 'I'm not surprised! Mine would too ...')

*toddles off to Idiots' Corner*
 

YoungNag22

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Hahah Mrs B he is such a good boy in every other way he probably just dawdle past it! He is the older uncle who takes the silly baby ex racehorse out hacking past the scary things!!
 

ester

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I would certainly consider a play with the bitting/noseband situation, just to make things a bit safer/the rider feel a bit better. He sounds like a lovely chap really though, I do just suspect he is full of his own self worth when jumping :)
 

Irish gal

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Yeah get the professional's opinion. Also if you have his name then it should be possible to see his jumping record in Ireland online. Must admit when I read your post my first thought was - enter him in the grand national!
 

Starzaan

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My horse of a lifetime was an ex grade A showjumper and puissance horse. Anything less than 1m he just wouldn't concentrate. He dragged me into them, went flat and clattered through them. The bigger the fence the more he backed off it and jumped it properly.

I had to learn how to ride a horse who had been trained and ridden all his life by people far far better than me, and accept that he knew his job far better than me. When I accepted him and learnt how to ride him he was the most incredible horse I've ever had the pleasure to sit on.

It sounds like he's not jumping big enough, and like he's attacking them as he would have to coming into a whopping great fence.
 

Notimetoride

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Going back to the pain thing, have you considered ulcers ? My Welsh cob had pretty much no symptoms at all, just the usual Welsh cheekiness but mostly an absolute star. However I just had a really weird feeling that something wasn't quite right. Got her scoped and lo and behold, and to my complete horror, she has grade 3 ulcers !!!! Maybe the Welsh cheekiness wasn't that at all - she was trying to tell mum she had a poorly tummy. Thank God I got her scoped and she's now receiving treatment
 

ljohnsonsj

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Ljohnsons sounds like you have been in the exact same situation and know how she's feeling. I do agree he should still have some respect and manners! Will suggest and elevator also thought about a myler combination? Like the idea of keeping his mind really occupied and guessing on the work too!!

Paddi22 it is a possibility, all she knows is he did big stuff when he was younger over in Ireland but she doesn't know anymore than that sadly. I haven't seen him with a stronger rider or professional on board but it is something my friend is thinking about getting just too see what he does and for advice etc. Will also suggest about the arthritis thanks 😁

Maybe try a myler. It didn't work on my mare but she was very senstive (and also chestnut) but it could work on him for sure
 

ann-jen

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I would literally start with a pole on the ground. Approach in walk and make him halt a few strides in front.... then walk over the pole in a straight line then halt afterwards still in a straight line..... do this ad nauseum until he's anticipating the halt at the far side. Then progress to doing this in trot and then canter. But he has to be respectful and has to halt in a straight line before the corner of the arena. Once he's doing this ok I'd then change the pole to a small fence or grid and continue from there.... Once he's accepting that a bit more you can reduce the halt to a half halt and hopefully your friend gets a bit more control.... worked with my excessively exuberant mare who was also capable of jumping much bigger than I wanted to do and basically just tried to take over because she knew her job!
 

scats

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I had a Wembley jumping pony as a kid who knew her job inside out. She came at fences like she was setting off around the national. I trusted her and just let her be, which others had failed at previously as they had tried to slow her down and she used to end up rearing and bouncing. She terrified several people into never wanting to sit on her again. I thought she was fantastic.
 

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I could give you an idea of what to do which isn't perhaps the most conventional and many forumers may not agree but it has worked for me.

A bit of background, the horse I have done this one is an out and out jumper, you could face him to the moon and he would certainly think he could manage it. Our problem was speed, too much of it.

The way we slowed him down was to set up two or three fences with approx 4-5 strides between each one, let him jump the 1st and then ask him to pull up before the 2nd. Go round again and pull up maybe at the 3rd. We repeat this 5-6 times and eventually do the line of jumps and instead of him taking off he waits and listens to me - works a treat for us, but please don't ever do this on a backward thinking horse, it just encourages them to stop.
 

ljohnsonsj

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I could give you an idea of what to do which isn't perhaps the most conventional and many forumers may not agree but it has worked for me.

A bit of background, the horse I have done this one is an out and out jumper, you could face him to the moon and he would certainly think he could manage it. Our problem was speed, too much of it.

The way we slowed him down was to set up two or three fences with approx 4-5 strides between each one, let him jump the 1st and then ask him to pull up before the 2nd. Go round again and pull up maybe at the 3rd. We repeat this 5-6 times and eventually do the line of jumps and instead of him taking off he waits and listens to me - works a treat for us, but please don't ever do this on a backward thinking horse, it just encourages them to stop.

I agree with this- Get him anticipating what your going to ask rather than assume he is just going to the next jump
 

wench

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I'd get a pro's opinion on him, i.e. Do they think it's the way he's used to being ridden, or do they think something is wrong
 

helenchat

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My sister had a very similar experience with her new horse- 21 year old ex Intermediate eventer. Brilliant in all respects, but my god was he a know it all when it came to jumping!
Again he was a horse that had only ever been ridden by professionals / one seriously competent amateur , and he just used to decide his own stride into the fence which really unnerved my sister !
On advice from her instructor she just spent weeks only jumping out of trot, just over a few simple fences, until he was quietly popping 1m upright out of trot. Only then was she allowed to canter.
Instructor also advised jumping him a few times a week, only over small fences and only a few at a time (e.g. 4 jumping efforts per session) and to school normally in between. So she would do flatwork for 10 minutes, pop a single fence, 15 mins flatwork, jump another etc.
This really helped diffuse the whole exciting atmosphere of jumping for the horse, and helped her nerves too- as it felt like less of a build up, and simply made the fences normal boring work for both of them !
Since then they have gone from strength to strength and he has given her so much confidence- and completely transformed her riding! Whilst she no longer regularly uses this technique schooling, it always is useful to use if he gets a bit big for his boots in a warm up!
Best of luck to your friend :)
 
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