Help, I am now VERY worried, what do I do ???

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Gentle_Warrior

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Why does my horse keep falling over ??

I know he is a large lad (Suffolk Punch x Cob at 15.3hh) and is naturally very on his forehand. He has done it 2 times now since the beginning of Feb. Each time he has been on soft going, and gone down to his knees. The first time he was walking, today he was trotting.

I try and ride him forward but this has it’s problems aswell. (this does not mean that I ride on the buckle if I don’t !!! I let his head stay at his comfortable angle and he is walking activley) When I ride him forward and together and lift my hands, he gets all stroppy/excited and gets stronger and stronger. He then starts head shaking which then un-balances him cause he wants to go and for me to leave his head alone. I have blisters on my hands from it today !!!!

I ride him in a NS veri-bend loose ring lozenge, but must admit that I do not use a noseband, he dose open his mouth but not excessively but has moments when he plays with the bit. He is better to bridle with no noseband as his bridle is looser, he is headshy when putting it on. I use an irish martingale to stop his reins going over his head when he head shakes, he gets upset when I use a running martinglale, although will use if recommended. I have no other ‘gadgets’ on him.

His saddle has been checked the other week and is fine. His teeth are fine

I am getting an instructor out in the next couple of weeks to ask for advice. It is starting to scare me now, I worry about him most of the time but this is just not right is it ?

He does RDA during the week which as you can imagine does not work him properly if at all. In the summer I will start riding more to get him working from the rear end !!! I currently only see him at weekends with work and dark nights.

What would you do ? Is there anything else I can try ?? He does not like schooling so anything I can do out hacking is ideal, although I may start schooling once a week if it will help !!!

Help me please.

xx
 
sounds like he has a problem with his feet...i'd have a good chat to my farrier about some remedial shoeing, if i were you.
 
You should get him checked by a vet. My old horse started doing this. It turned out he had ataxia, caused by a tumour on the spine.
Dont want to worry you though so hopefully it is nothing serious. Worth getting checked though as you dont want him falling over and maybe injuring you.
 
Shadow used to do this when his toes got a little long (basically if i left it a bit long between shoeings) are you sure its not this?
 
Cropi did this a few times to me last year. She went down on her knees in the road going down a hill, I went straight out the front door
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and she did it again on a hack. After the first time I got some knee boots just in case it happened again and then the second time I got the vet to check her out. She was fine but he thought that her toes were a little long. My farrier then came and he has put natural balance shoes on the fronts and it seems (touch wood) to of cured the problem. She does still trip sometimes but its normally when she is dolly daydreaming and she seems to forget to pick her feet up.

I'd get it checked out if I was you xx
 
Re the head shaking, my sister has put her big mare in a PeeWee bit, this has eleminated the not wanting the bridle on and has stopped the messing with her head when out. The mare has a very big tongue and fleshy lips, the French link type bits did not help at all. The Pee Wee has a thin mullen mouth sweetiron bit and the mare loves it. Sister now has breaks! Horse is now working better from behind. It may also be an idea to eleminate all hard feed for a while to ensure that the head shaking is not a result of an intolerance to food stuff. Alwo suggest gloves for you and knee boots for horse for the time being.
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He may need rolled toe shoes to help him with his breakover. Failing that I would suggest he does some work to help lift his forehand and that may mean he has to do some schooling. He may not like it but it would be for his and your best interest. It does sound like he wants his own way and when you tell him no he argues so perhaps a few lessons in you being the boss would be a good idea.
 
I would like to know how old he is as that could be relevant. And would agree with speaking to your farrier, as well as vet.

It could be a few simple things that would be helped by a good instructor, especially if he is young/old and not very fit and as you say on his forehand and probably being led about very slowly in RDA work.

By his breeding sounds like he has the large flat kind of feet?! Is he tripping do you think, or slipping? (Sorry, probably hard to tell from rider's point of view.)

But am not sure if the headshaking has something to do with it - as in do the two coincide? It sounds like he is only shaking his head when you take up a stronger contact - is that when he falls down too? I can give you my (very humble) advice as an instructor if you can fill in a few of the questions for me... Obviously your instructor can help most but willing to offer some help in meantime...
 
And some horses are just clumsy buggers! Often the heavier they are the more clumsy...
I agree with trying the Pee Wee bit. Mine loves it! That could sort your head shaking out right there. Head shakers can make themselves a bit dizzy as well.. , same as when you shake your head vigourously, and when they have their nose in the air, they can't see where they are going!
Where his feet are concerned... does he need shoes? If he doesn't, try him barefoot. Barefoot horses always know exactly where their feet are. Just as an aside, I rode about 300 miles in total barefoot last year over every sort of terrain, (60 miles competitive) never stumbled, never lame.
To make him more conscious of his feet, I would recommend doing some pole work with him.
 
I would also have him checked by your vet, i had a horse that kept on tripping whilst being ridden, then in the field he would be standing one minute and then sort of collapsing but not falling over totally, turned out he had narcolepsy and was nodding off!
 
Some neds can just be clumsy, but my first port of call would be a chat with your farrier, he may need rolled toes or similar
 
I'd suggest the following;
1. Check foot balance as often over long toes can cause this...ask for rolled toes to speed up breakover on the fronts.
2. Eliminate any deficiencies by asking for a full blood test. I taught at a yard (in the carse land of Stirling) where a lot of the horses dragged their toes and stumbled. It was due to a selenium deficiency. Perhaps you could feed a broad spectrum vit/min supplement such as Equivite (my three all find it palatable) just to be sure he's not lacking anything.
3. Get your vet to check that he hasn't got any underlying lameness such as arthritis...I forget how old he is...
4. Look at the feed he's getting...does he get enough protein in his diet? Is he being slightly underfed by the yard to keep him quiet for the RDA?
5. Schooling - lunge him in the school over first a single walk pole, then walk and trot poles (approx 9ft distance between poles will let you both walk and trot them). Raise alternate ends of the poles. Build a small jump, and lunge him over them...getting him going forward. This will help him to flex his legs and improve his balance.
Hope this helps with your handsome boy.
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Thanks, here are some answers

how old he is as that could be relevant. ***= ***** 16 in May

By his breeding sounds like he has the large flat kind of feet?! Is he tripping do you think, or slipping? (Sorry, probably hard to tell from rider's point of view.) ***= ***** piccy below !!! he is tripping

But am not sure if the headshaking has something to do with it - as in do the two coincide? It sounds like he is only shaking his head when you take up a stronger contact - is that when he falls down too? ***= ***** he can fall weather high contact, medium contact or long rein !!!! does it both, he can headshake and not fall down if that makes sense


I can give you my (very humble) advice as an instructor if you can fill in a few of the questions for me... Obviously your instructor can help most but willing to offer some help in meantime... ***= ***** your advise will not be humble
 
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that is my fear - but he has NEVER done it with RDA - he never buts a foot wrong for them

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that is probably because he's just "bumbling" around.....

i would take the cheapest route first...

get out the farrier and get him on some sups......

give him a short time to adapt..if there is not a tiniest bit of improvement, then take it further.....
 
From my own exp it was one of the signs that lead the diagnosis of negative sole planes, one of the things that helped was shoeing with 3 degree natural balance shoes.

I totally understand about you losing confidence when he trips, it happened to me in walk, bam I was on the floor with hulking 17" hander just missing me. Its not pleasant.
 
My horse had a bad tripping problem. After LOTS of investigations a McTimoney chiropractor cured it, as he wasn't using his back end correctly. Before I changed the saddle, changed farrier, had physio, etc. etc.

Feet are important, possibly rolling toes on shoes.

Mine is barefoot. He doesn't trip now, whether barefoot or wearing his Easyboot Epics. But he was in shoes for quite a time before, without tripping.
 
When was he last shod and what type of shoes does he have? How long do you go between shoeings? Does he grow alot of foot?

A good way to test if he's feeling something in his feet, that could be from a foot balance issue as well as other things, would be to lunge him in a circle and watch how he places his front feet down or whether he is lame on a circle.

Patches used to trip an awful lot and will still trip somewhat when being schooled on grass. She no longer trips out hacking or on a surface though.

I had rolled toes put on her which helped, but didn't completely solve the issue. She was then assessed and x-rayed by a vet. The x-rays showed a foot that was out of balance for her. She had her toes cut right back and her heels allowed to grow a bit "higher". The result was instant. He feet now look a bit boxy to most, but it is clearly how she feels comfortable. She is no longer lame on a circle, no longer trips and her foot falls are now crisp....whereas before she sounded like a teenager shuffling her feet along.

Another change is in her schooling/fitness. She used to lean terribly on me, which obviously put her on her forehand. She no longer leans at all. She's incredibly light in the hand. I don't know what I did to improve that, it's just been a natural progression. She doesn't carry herself in a true outline, but she has her own version of self carriage now. I can throw the reins at her and she still holds frame when trotting/cantering or walking when hacking.

I would start with the farrier initially and then progress from there if he were mine.
 
Sorry, went off on another forum but think you have got some good advice here from lots of people! Doesn't sound like it is at all connected with headshaking so that's a relief as that would be harder to sort. As 16 is not exactly ancient, no excuse there either! So it's probably feet and/or way of going.

Do tell your farrier straight away and see what he suggests. However when I had a pony tripping the farrier suggested it was a riding problem so don't be despondent if he throws it back at you like that!

Farrier might suggest rolling the toes, or setting the shoe slightly further back to alter the breakover point. THis might help your horse to pick his front feet up just a fraction sooner so his back feet don't catch the front and cause the tripping.

But sometimes it can just be clumsy/not paying attention/not very fit. So get your instructor involved asap. In the meantime can you lunge? You shouldn't put yourself in danger so until you have altered a few things, perhaps stick to the school for riding.

You could also lunge over poles too and try to watch how he is moving - is he more of a daisy cutter, ie legs straight in front movement, rather than a knees-up type? Get a friend to lunge and sit on the side and watch so you get a clearer idea of what he is doing.

Agree with the schooling exercises as suggested by Shilasdair above - poles, especially lifted one end, to encourage him to lift and use his legs, to think about them.

Some other exercises you could try - some small half circles back to the track and shoulder-in (in walk) would be useful too because then he has to pick up each foot and place it carefully, but get your instructor to start you off there as if you haven't done these before then it needs to be done with someone on the ground watching the first few times. Basic transition work too even if you stay in walk and do halt walk halt to make him carry himself as opposed to you carrying him!

Think I have gone on enough especially as lots of people have offered help but do let us know if there is any improvement or if the farrier changes anything.
 
My lad was always doing this and god is it unnerving!

For him it was a combination of his toe being too long and a touch of arthritis. He is now on cortavet and has his toe taken back further and it hasn't happened now since about Sept.
 
I dont mean to sound rude, but if your horse is flat footed, your farrier should be shoeing accordingly anyway. You should not have to point it out to him. But I agree, rule out any medical conditions, get roll toes and lunge him over poles (possibly raised poles).

No disrespect to you, but perhaps he needs schooling to teach him to move better!?

I wouldnt get yourself upset about it, I am sure you will be able to help him.
 
My horse started stumbling, it was early stage arthritis in the knees. She also had narcolepsy, and it seemed to be set off by using a dressage girth. She would slowly sink to her knees in a kind of trance. Then she started dropping right down. Apparently it's more common than you might think.
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Natural Balance shoes if you're not already using them - I knew a mare who'd fall over atleast once a month - hardly does it now.
 
Both my oldies (22 and 27) have done this both on and off the roads. My farrier now puts on rolled shoes on the front and road nails on the rear. I always ride them with felt/leather knee pad skeleton boots on the front legs just in case it happens again.
 
internet kept going down yesterday - here are a couple of pics, they show his build and his feet for you - not the best - he looks a bit like a mule

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