help!! jumping a red light while towing

[sangwyneleri]

I was on my way home from a farm ride yesterday and had slowed at a set of traffic lights but had just started to accelerate again to get through the lights however they changed. I debated it in my mind but decided it wasn't fair on my horse to brake harshly. so I jumped the red light. I have been had at these lights before so I have been extra careful. I am now worried I will get a fine and points. I wondered if anyone else has been in this position before and whether they appealed on the grounds it wasn't safe for them to stop because they were transporting animals, and whether they successfully appealed. is it worth me appealing if I get a letter through?

 

[wills_91]

You jumped a red light and you think you should get away with it, are.you mad?! You had already started to slow then sped up again so you must have been aware that the light were likely to change.

 

[shortstuff99]

TBH unless a policeman was there to catch you I doubt anyone will know!

 

[AmieeT]

I have to say I think it was a bit silly of you to speed up again, especially as you'd been had at them before. It sounds as though it was perfectly safe for you to stop, but you chose to speed up. How can you say you were concerned for your horse?

I think it's a case of hope for the best. And if you do get a fine and points, suck it up. And this time learn from it.

A

 

[*hic*]

Perhaps there will be the option of a safer driving course. If not perhaps you should look at doing some further training.

 

[numptynoelle]

I was on my way home from a farm ride yesterday and had slowed at a set of traffic lights but had just started to accelerate again to get through the lights however they changed. I debated it in my mind but decided it wasn't fair on my horse to brake harshly. so I jumped the red light. I have been had at these lights before so I have been extra careful. I am now worried I will get a fine and points. I wondered if anyone else has been in this position before and whether they appealed on the grounds it wasn't safe for them to stop because they were transporting animals, and whether they successfully appealed. is it worth me appealing if I get a letter through?

You judged it not safe to stop after deciding to deliberating accelerate to get through the lights? At lights that you previously had been punished for jumping? You sound incredibly reckless. You deserve a ticket, at the very least!

 

[minesadouble]

Don't hold your breath about the appeal - someone I know pulled 4 foot forward at a red light to let an ambulance through, appealed and was told tough luck pretty much!!!

 

[JustKickOn]

Perhaps there will be the option of a safer driving course. If not perhaps you should look at doing some further training.

The courses aren't available for traffic light offences IIRC. It's a straight fine and three points.

Not all lights have cameras but from the OP post it sounds like they do.

OP- you slowed down, presumably awaiting the lights to go red, then sped up and thought "oh bobbins!" when you could in fact have stayed slow and been patient. You can try and appeal if you get a ticket in the post, however you are in the wrong and I would suck it up and learn from this one.

 

[sangwyneleri]

I didn't deliberately speed up to get through the lights. the lights were still on green when I started to speed up. I know I was in the wrong. but just wondered if anyone had tried to appeal on these grounds before.

 

[sangwyneleri]

and I know that sounds very irish when i'm admitting fault.

 

[AmieeT]

I don't know anyone that's tried, but I doubt you'll be successful when learner drivers are taught to slow down approaching traffic lights in anticipation of change, it's something that should be done at all times, not just when towing.

A

 

[Orangehorse]

Are there cameras on the lights which makes you think you have been seen?

I did something similar years ago with 2 ponies on the trailer. I didn't speed up, but I hadn't slowed down ready for them to change, so having got there, the lights changed and I couldn't/didn't want to slam on the brakes.
I wasn't caught, but I gave my passenger a fright and I admit that I have always been super cautious since.

 

[Pigeon]

Someone ran a red light the other night and nearly went into the side of me. The driver's side. I ended up with her headlights three inches away from my face. Bmw 4 by 4 to nissan micra... You're lucky you got away with it, especially with a trailer because you can't exactly accelerate out of trouble!

With a trailer, you slow down as you approach traffic lights, even if they are green. (you are meant to do this in any vehicle but most don't) I know it probably annoys people behind you but it's really the only way. How far away from the lights were you when they went red? I know there's a gap between then and the corresponding lights going green, which is probably when the camera goes on.

 

[npage123]

Sorry to say OP but that was really bad driving. At least you're admitting you're at fault, but there's no way that you should be let off. Slowly and easy does it, especially in 'hazard' areas, and especially with precious cargo! Remember that innocent bystanders are often also affected by RTA's so from start to finish every road user should drive carefully for the whole of their journey.

 

[RoughcutDiamond]

With a trailer, you slow down as you approach traffic lights, even if they are green. (you are meant to do this in any vehicle but most don't) I know it probably annoys people behind you but it's really the only way.

Sorry pigeon, but with my ex-driving instructor hat on I have to disagree with the comment that you should be slowing down in "any vehicle" on approach to a green light - given that the closer you get to something the slower you must be going to stop within the remaining distance we would all be crawling through light controlled junctions at a snail's pace ;-).

Judging whether or not stopping is safely possible was something most students struggled with initially so I taught them to consciously consider and decide, as they approached a green light, whether or not it would be safe to stop if the lights changed (taking into consideration approach speed, visibility, weather/road conditions, proximity of following traffic etc). At some point the decision changes from assessing and deciding "I CAN stop safely" to "I CAN'T stop safely". Following this kind of method works well and is something I still personally use after 23 years driving, adapting distances and decisions to whichever vehicle I'm driving - be it private car, ambulance or horsebox.

Of course a green light means "go on if the way is clear..." and were there hazards at the junction/lights requiring a reduction in speed then that would be prudent regardless of the light remaining at green. The amber light means "stop at the stop line" with the caveat that the stop line should only be crossed if the amber shows AFTER the line is crossed or if you are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident. Therefore a decision should be made in expectation of an amber light appearing rather than AT the time the amber shows....leaving a decision so late either results in heavy braking OR going through the stop line late.

If I'd taught learner drivers to slow down on the approach to every set of green traffic lights there would have been many many test fails for hesitancy but since I have not taught trailer/HGV then it may well be that advice IS to ease off the gas and cover the brake on approach - I'd genuinely be interested to hear from an instructor or someone who has sat one of these tests recently to see what the "official" advice is. I have to say that, of all the vehicles/combinations I drive, making these decisions is easily most difficult when my beloved equine is the precious cargo and we all make mistakes from time to time ;-).

To the OP, best to suck it up and chalk it up to experience I reckon. The livestock is, of course, precious to us but when compared with jumping a red and potentially causing injury or worse to another human I don't know how much of a sympathetic hearing you'd get on appeal.

 

[WelshD]

OP what's done is done, try not to worry too much now as you cant change a thing

If you get a ticket then try the appeal and see what happens, if no luck it was worth a try

 

[burtie]

I think I know what you mean OP, and there is a set of lights on a 60 mile an hour A road with a fairly steep downhill approach that I have been through on just gone red on an occasion. It didn't have a camera so I got away with it. But stopping distances and amber light times are set for normal vehicles with normal breaking and a car and trailer with livestock does not have that so of course you often have to reduce speed speed a bit on approach to some lights particularly those on down hill stretches and judge a point at which beyond you cannot safely stop, add to this the requirement to keep moving at a reasonable speed, there are going to be some times when those lights change just at the point of no return and you may just pass through on the red. That said I would never actually speed up at lights simply just stop reducing speed and make normal progress!

 

[burtie]

Sorry pigeon, but with my ex-driving instructor hat on I have to disagree with the comment that you should be slowing down in "any vehicle" on approach to a green light - given that the closer you get to something the slower you must be going to stop within the remaining distance we would all be crawling through light controlled junctions at a snail's pace ;-).

Judging whether or not stopping is safely possible was something most students struggled with initially so I taught them to consciously consider and decide, as they approached a green light, whether or not it would be safe to stop if the lights changed (taking into consideration approach speed, visibility, weather/road conditions, proximity of following traffic etc). At some point the decision changes from assessing and deciding "I CAN stop safely" to "I CAN'T stop safely". Following this kind of method works well and is something I still personally use after 23 years driving, adapting distances and decisions to whichever vehicle I'm driving - be it private car, ambulance or horsebox.

Of course a green light means "go on if the way is clear..." and were there hazards at the junction/lights requiring a reduction in speed then that would be prudent regardless of the light remaining at green. The amber light means "stop at the stop line" with the caveat that the stop line should only be crossed if the amber shows AFTER the line is crossed or if you are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident. Therefore a decision should be made in expectation of an amber light appearing rather than AT the time the amber shows....leaving a decision so late either results in heavy braking OR going through the stop line late.

If I'd taught learner drivers to slow down on the approach to every set of green traffic lights there would have been many many test fails for hesitancy but since I have not taught trailer/HGV then it may well be that advice IS to ease off the gas and cover the brake on approach - I'd genuinely be interested to hear from an instructor or someone who has sat one of these tests recently to see what the "official" advice is.


Having you just contradicted yourself? Either we drive as if expecting an amber and therefore slowing down as we approach the stop line, or we drive as if not expecting an amber and carry on at the relevant safe speed for the road and if we get an amber then decide if safe to slow down and stop or carry on at the same speed?

 

[Doublethyme]

I have successfully argued mitigation on a red light fine in a horse box. However slightly different circumstances in that I was approaching uphill set of lights behind two cars. Decelerated as you do, lights changed to red. We all stopped slowly and appropriately at lights. Waited for them to go through change sequence, green again so we all started moving through. By the time (very short) I got level with lights they changed again (ridiculously short time). I was already on line but due to slow nature of lorry on hill I got flashed. I argued the point in a letter explaining there was no way at that point I could put the brakes on with horse on board and that I hadn't been speeding but pulling away from stationery.

 

[Clannad48]

OP what would you be posting now if someone had gone through their lights and hit you and/or your trailer. A completely different story I suspect. What you did was dangerous, especially considering you have been caught at this set of lights before.

 

[Red-1]

I know how that can happen. In fact I find that slowing down does not help, as the slower you are when you are close to the lights and they have not changed (so you have to continue or be ar$e ended by the driver behind), the slower you then are to make up the remaining ground before the lights are at red. I find there is a distinct "danger zone" where you are stuck, dammed if you do, dammned if you don't.

I agree with a previous posted that the amber timing is for normal vehicles, not horseboxes.

In point of fact I found it safer (as in not as likely to run a red light) if you lose some speed, but not all of it, the danger zone seems smaller.

That being said I would say take the fine/points. Officialdom will not be interested in your horse in the box, and ultimately it is your responsibility to stop at a red light.

Edited to add, if I am caught in the danger zone, I still stop. I may be over the line once I have stopped safely, but I do not cross the junction.

 

[rachk89]

I think Roughcutdiamond is right to be honest. The chances of an appeal are slim to none - you endangered the life of a human being over that of an animal is not a case any judge will agree with. Thats why basically if you see an animal on the road and you have a driver behind you, you hit the animal otherwise you're getting the blame for injuring/killing the person because you wanted to save the animal (although they may make an exception to deer as they will severely damage your car and probably you). Of course not many people actually do that, as I've found many times from people slamming on the brakes to avoid hitting an animal (we're too much of an animal loving nation). Its a horrible consequence of our law system unfortunately, human life > animal life. Its wrong, but chances of that law changing are slim to none. Really should be equal, the fact that people who hurt animals get a very low sentence for it sickens me, especially they are usually the freaks that go on to kill people. Lock them up before they commit a worse crime.

minesadouble: That may have happened because ambulance drivers are trained to get around traffic easily, even at traffic lights. That would have went against your friend unfortunately, even though they were being nice, but they would have been endangering other people by doing it, so theres that issue too.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

My friend went through a red light in her horsebox taking horse to vet for colic. It was on an uphill bit which you had to accelerate to get going and she felt she couldn't just put her brakes on hard even though she wasn't going very fast. She got a ticket, wrote to appeal it and never heard anything again.

 

[Pigeon]

Sorry pigeon, but with my ex-driving instructor hat on I have to disagree with the comment that you should be slowing down in "any vehicle" on approach to a green light - given that the closer you get to something the slower you must be going to stop within the remaining distance we would all be crawling through light controlled junctions at a snail's pace ;-).

But what about the big 'SLOW - TRAFFIC LIGHTS' signs I drive past every day!! I guess 'controllable speed' is a better term than slow

 

[orionstar]

My driving instructor once said, traffic lights dont suddenly change, they are designed to change, so you should approach each one as if they will turn to red. This is especially significant if you are towing, and yes if that means crawling through lights at a snails pace, then so be it. I'm not about to send my horses into the breast bar or be blind sided because I saw a long one!

 

[alainax]

Was there a camera at it?

 

[sywell]

Its a balance do you cause injury to the horse and please guilty with mittigating circumstances and hope the magistrates have common sense. I was in 3 lanes of traffic recently on a roundabout and some one came up the inside lane very fast and was I was looking in my mirror the lights had changed and I decided the horse came first and braking suddenly was not an option.

 

[fatpiggy]

I didn't deliberately speed up to get through the lights. the lights were still on green when I started to speed up. I know I was in the wrong. but just wondered if anyone had tried to appeal on these grounds before.

You should always be prepared to stop - after all you are supposed to stop at AMBER, not red.

 

[xgemmax]

The courses aren't available for traffic light offences IIRC. It's a straight fine and three points.

Not all lights have cameras but from the OP post it sounds like they do.

OP- you slowed down, presumably awaiting the lights to go red, then sped up and thought "oh bobbins!" when you could in fact have stayed slow and been patient. You can try and appeal if you get a ticket in the post, however you are in the wrong and I would suck it up and learn from this one.

There is a course for jumping red lights, its the safer driving course. I have done it for being on the phone and there were several people there that had been caught going through a red light.

I think its a case of hope for the best, no harm in sending an appeal in. I have done it several times when lights have changed and i'm too close to stop, would rather that than give the poor horses a bad travelling experience by slamming on the breaks!

 

[fatpiggy]

Sorry pigeon, but with my ex-driving instructor hat on I have to disagree with the comment that you should be slowing down in "any vehicle" on approach to a green light - given that the closer you get to something the slower you must be going to stop within the remaining distance we would all be crawling through light controlled junctions at a snail's pace ;-).

Judging whether or not stopping is safely possible was something most students struggled with initially so I taught them to consciously consider and decide, as they approached a green light, whether or not it would be safe to stop if the lights changed (taking into consideration approach speed, visibility, weather/road conditions, proximity of following traffic etc). At some point the decision changes from assessing and deciding "I CAN stop safely" to "I CAN'T stop safely". Following this kind of method works well and is something I still personally use after 23 years driving, adapting distances and decisions to whichever vehicle I'm driving - be it private car, ambulance or horsebox.

Of course a green light means "go on if the way is clear..." and were there hazards at the junction/lights requiring a reduction in speed then that would be prudent regardless of the light remaining at green. The amber light means "stop at the stop line" with the caveat that the stop line should only be crossed if the amber shows AFTER the line is crossed or if you are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident. Therefore a decision should be made in expectation of an amber light appearing rather than AT the time the amber shows....leaving a decision so late either results in heavy braking OR going through the stop line late.

If I'd taught learner drivers to slow down on the approach to every set of green traffic lights there would have been many many test fails for hesitancy but since I have not taught trailer/HGV then it may well be that advice IS to ease off the gas and cover the brake on approach - I'd genuinely be interested to hear from an instructor or someone who has sat one of these tests recently to see what the "official" advice is. I have to say that, of all the vehicles/combinations I drive, making these decisions is easily most difficult when my beloved equine is the precious cargo and we all make mistakes from time to time ;-).

To the OP, best to suck it up and chalk it up to experience I reckon. The livestock is, of course, precious to us but when compared with jumping a red and potentially causing injury or worse to another human I don't know how much of a sympathetic hearing you'd get on appeal.

Hey RoughCutDiamond,you might have been interested to see the learner under instruction incident I saw about 4 years ago - driver was about 30 feet from the lights and managed to stall the car. As they restarted and put the car into gear the lights went amber but the instructor allowed the learner to proceed over the stop line and through a now red light in first gear, snails pace - much to the surprise of the traffic now going through the lights the other way! Just one of many examples I have seen of terrible standards of driving instructors in my locality in the last few years . No wonder there are so many bad drivers around if their instructors are no better.