Help: Lunging- Horse that wont stop

[NewerRider89]

I've recently started loaning an ex racerhorse, and have only lunged him twice so far.
But the second that gate shuts behind us, in the round pen, he is off like a shot, in an unstoppable canter, ignoring all voice commands and body language. He will continue to canter for a very long time.There is also a lot of head tossing, in other words "you're not bloody telling me what to do"

Should I;
a) Let him "get it out of his system", and wait until he has let off some steam before we begin? After all, I'm sure this is what he was used to as a racehorse.

b) Take it as disobedience, and wave the lung whip in his path/ point the whip at his shoulder until he slows down?

The head tossing tells me he's trying to be dominant, but the owner tells me to let him get it out of his system.

What do you/would you do?

 

[Wagtail]

I've recently started loaning an ex racerhorse, and have only lunged him twice so far.
But the second that gate shuts behind us, in the round pen, he is off like a shot, in an unstoppable canter, ignoring all voice commands and body language. He will continue to canter for a very long time.There is also a lot of head tossing, in other words "you're not bloody telling me what to do"

Should I;
a) Let him "get it out of his system", and wait until he has let off some steam before we begin? After all, I'm sure this is what he was used to as a racehorse.

b) Take it as disobedience, and wave the lung whip in his path/ point the whip at his shoulder until he slows down?

The head tossing tells me he's trying to be dominant, but the owner tells me to let him get it out of his system.

What do you/would you do?

Head tossing can also be a sign of a back problem such as kissing spines. Both the ex racers on my yard have KS. Both head tossed. The one who has had the op now no longer tosses his head. No saying yours is the same, as it could well be dominance behaviour. Personally, I would let him get it out of his system rather than waving the lunge whip in his path etc.

 

[*hic*]

I'd establish voice control whilst leading him - in a bridle if he's inclined to tank off - before I attempted to lunge him. Then I'd check back to my lunging lessons and make sure I was not sending him off on one unintentionally.

 

[cheeryplatypus]

If its safe I'd just stand and totally ignore him until he calms down and looks towards you for instruction. You would have to be completely passive though which may be hard if he's acting aggressively. Make sure the whip is pointed down at the ground which is where you should be pretending to look and not at him, when he calms down and stands then reward him and take him straight out of the pen. Hopefully the time required for the calming should get shorter and then you can take him in in a relaxed manner and build it back up starting with walking a couple circles and taking him out etc.
Is he getting plenty of turnout?
Good luck, and keep safe, he sounds a handful.

 

[NewerRider89]

Thanks, I'll let hm get it out of his system then. I was just worried I might be sending him the wrong message, and he would think he had one over on me.

 

[PolarSkye]

I've recently started loaning an ex racerhorse, and have only lunged him twice so far.
But the second that gate shuts behind us, in the round pen, he is off like a shot, in an unstoppable canter, ignoring all voice commands and body language. He will continue to canter for a very long time.There is also a lot of head tossing, in other words "you're not bloody telling me what to do"

Should I;
a) Let him "get it out of his system", and wait until he has let off some steam before we begin? After all, I'm sure this is what he was used to as a racehorse.

b) Take it as disobedience, and wave the lung whip in his path/ point the whip at his shoulder until he slows down?

The head tossing tells me he's trying to be dominant, but the owner tells me to let him get it out of his system.

What do you/would you do?

Leaving the whole KS issue aside as until you've had that diagnosed you need to address the behaviour - it sounds possibly as though he just doesn't know what to do.

Personally, I'd let him tire himself out but do NOTHing . . . no eye contact, no waving the whip, no stepping front of his shoulder, no driving him from his quarters - take a neutral stance until he starts to lock on to you (you'll see an ear on you and he'll start licking and chewing). When he stops and steps towards you, reward him by stepping towards him and giving him a scratch/rub and kind word, then calmly send him on (in walk) and praise him verbally while he stays in walk. Be careful about your body language - i.e., don't inadvertently step into a driving position - and, if you find it helps, drop the lunge whip (Kali used to run away from the lunge whip). Once he is catching on (and this could take weeks) then you can start teaching him that we start a lunging session in WALK but you want to be sure the walk command is established first - otherwise you're giving him an opportunity to ignore you (if that makes sense).

Can you also try some join up/free schooling in the lunge pen? It's a good way to get him listening to and focussed on you - Kali used to be brilliant at spending the first two or three minutes in the round/lunge pen with his head turned to the outside totally focussed on his friends in the field, the muckheap, the chickens, people and their wheelbarrows - in short, anywhere but on me. Loose schooling and some join up helped hugely and I found that if I did that for a couple of minutes first, he was much more compliant once I clipped the lunge line on.

Lastly, do you lunge in a cavesson or a bridle - and if you use a bridle, how do you attach the lunge line - straight to the bit ring nearest you, over the poll or under the chin? If you lunge in a bridle, you can administer a small half halt on the lunge line (not a jerk or a steady pull) as you give the downwards transition command.

Hope all that helps.

P

 

[overtherainbow]

I would be worried waving the lunge whip in his path would create a potentially dangerous situation if he reacted badly to it, and putting the whip to his shoulder is the command to go out rather than slow down, better to position yourself slightly in front of his eye and keep the whip down and let him calm down.

Has he ever been lunged properly before? It may be a case of leading him round at a walk at first to get him used to the fact he doesnt have to blast away and just canter round.

 

[nikicb]

Have you tried lunging without the whip? 2 of mine (out of 3) don't respond well to me having one (I've never beaten them up, honest!). And I don't let them slop along. If they are being lazy I use my voice and just hold my arm as though I had a whip and if they are still being idle then I will shorten the lunge line and walk a circle inside their circle (does that make sense?) so that I am much closer and drive them forward that way (although I wouldn't advise that until you know he won't kick out at you or jump on you). It might not be conventional but it works for me.

I would also ignore the charging off and just talk soothingly until he comes back. One of mine did this when I first had him but now is fine. On him I also run the lunge line through the inside bit ring and onto the roller and have a side rein on the outside and gently squeeze on the rein to half halt. He's now easy to lunge and I happily let my 14 year old son do it by himself.

Lastly make sure his side reins are not too tight to start with - I'm guessing if he is an ex racer he may not like the contact and that may be what he is fighting against. Start with them having just a little contact and then gradually tighten them over time.

Lastly, going by your username you may not have that much experience and he may not be an ideal horse to learn to lunge if he too is inexperienced. Can you either see if someone with more experience can have a go with him and also it may be worth your while seeing if you can have a go lunging a more sensible horse once or twice so you build up your confidence. Good luck!

 

[Circe]

Hi
My tb used to do the "wall of death " routine when lunged.
Are you on your own when you are lunging him?'
If you are, I would let him get it out of his system, then as he changes pace down to trot,give him the command to trot, and the same with walk. That way he 'accidentally' learns the voice commands.
Then you can drive him forwards again using the voice commands.
if its all getting a bit too out of control then I used to "block" him with my body position, so standing further forward than his midline, ie level with his head.
This might make him turn in at you though, so if you want to keep him out on the circle you have to be quick at moving back along the side of him.
I would be careful with a lunge whip to begin with, my boy was very whip shy, and I often had to drop the whip to calm him down. Now he has learnt that whip pointed at his heels is walk, pointed at the hocks is trot, pointed in the air is canter, and in front of him is stand.
If you are consistant and calm, then your horse should soon learn what you want.
Kx

 

[stencilface]

I woudl take the lunge whip out of the equation, and then I would ignore him until he gest it out of his system. Then, when he drops into trot, I would encourage him back up to canter again, just for a circuit or so, then he trots again when you ask.

My horse would do this everytime I would lunge him, I just let him get on with it until he is bored.

Body language is key when lungeing, mine knows when I am front on to him, that is my 'aggressive stance' and he must not slow down or come in. So completely facing him at all times. When I turn my body on the side (can slouch shoulders to exagerate) that is his key to come down a pace, alongside the voice command. I can change his pace through either voice or stance now

 

[NewerRider89]

I think I need some advice on lunging gear.

He is at a rescue center, and the woman that runs it told me to do this;

(Put him in his bridle and saddle.
Attach the lungeline by pulling it through the inside bit ring and attach it to the bit ring on the other side.)

Personally I don't like how she wants me to do it, I have just bought him a lunging cavesson.

When she is not there, I do like to lunge him without a lung line, as we are in a round pen anyway.

He acts the same regardless though.

1) Do i need to have side reins?
2) What is the purpose of the roller? I thought it was just for breaking them in. Can I just use his saddle instead?

 

[millitiger]

It sounds to me like he is very confused and has no idea what you want from him.

I would lunge him with 2 reins and use the outside rein with the 'Whoa' aid so he starts to understand what you want.

 

[PolarSkye]

I think I need some advice on lunging gear.

He is at a rescue center, and the woman that runs it told me to do this;

(Put him in his bridle and saddle.
Attach the lungeline by pulling it through the inside bit ring and attach it to the bit ring on the other side.)

Personally I don't like how she wants me to do it, I have just bought him a lunging cavesson.

When she is not there, I do like to lunge him without a lung line, as we are in a round pen anyway.

He acts the same regardless though.

1) Do i need to have side reins?
2) What is the purpose of the roller? I thought it was just for breaking them in. Can I just use his saddle instead?

All good questions - here are some answers :

Cavesson versus bridle - personally I hate lunging cavessons unless they are fitted really well - they tend to pull across the horse's face and with a less than cooperative or green horse I like the extra control a bit and bridle gives me . . . but that's just personal preference and if the cavesson works for you and the horse then that's fine.

Lunge line on the bit - well, with Kal we started out running it through the nearest bit ring, over the poll and attached to the furthest bit ring just to have that additional bit of poll pressure to help reinforce my voice commands and now we clip it as you describe - through the nearest bit ring, under his chin and clipped to the offside bit ring. I don't really like attaching the lunge line straight to the nearside bit ring as if they have a "moment" you could end up inadvertently pulling the bit through the horse's mouth - which can't be comfortable.

Roller versus saddle - I use both (although I always remove the stirrups and leathers as I don't like them bouncing around) - the major difference between the two is that the roller has more places to attach gadgets like side reins and pessoas (multiple D-rings).

Side reins - well until the horse has learned how to lunge properly (as in not do the wall of death and listen to your commands) I wouldn't be attaching any side reins. As an ex-racer, he needs to learn to balance/carry himself properly but before he does that he needs to learn to listen. If you're going to use side reins, please have someone knowledgeable show you how to use them properly - in the wrong hands/applied the wrong way they can really create problems/make a horse sore/develop incorrect musculature.

Hope that helped.

P

 

[Goldenstar]

I think it's possible this is what he thinks you want him to do he may never have been taught to lunge calmly.
I would simply go back to basics and teach him as if he is a 3yo if you have never taught from scratch buy a book and learn .it will be an excellent bonding learning experiance for both of you it's a great way to get their attention and build up trust and respect between you.
I love this sort of project great fun.

 

[paulineh]

join up is a very good way to introduce him to correct lunge work. As you have a round pen leave him with either a bridle (Without the reins). use the lunge rein to send him round, use body language to tell him what you want him ti do.

Once he starts to slow down just send him on again. He will soon learn that you are in control.

Do you have some one that could help you. TB are big horses and ex racers are use to running.

 

[Circe]

I think I need some advice on lunging gear.

He is at a rescue center, and the woman that runs it told me to do this;

(Put him in his bridle and saddle.
Attach the lungeline by pulling it through the inside bit ring and attach it to the bit ring on the other side.)

Personally I don't like how she wants me to do it, I have just bought him a lunging cavesson.

When she is not there, I do like to lunge him without a lung line, as we are in a round pen anyway.

He acts the same regardless though.

1) Do i need to have side reins?
2) What is the purpose of the roller? I thought it was just for breaking them in. Can I just use his saddle instead?

Well, I prefer to use a lunge cavesson.
when I started lunging my boy we didn't have a round yard, so I had to use the corner of the field. He mistook this for the starting line, and came out the corner at a flat out gallop a couple of times. I was worried about him damaging his mouth if he got loose and stood on the lunge line...proud to say he never did, I just got dragged on my backside a few times
The thing with the cavesson is that it has to be fitting quite tightly, so you need someone to check it for you, or it will pull across the face.
Also, the leather ones with the heavy brass rings on the front are enough to make my boy shake his head alot.
As a previous poster said, the head tossing can be a sign of discomfort.

I would say that if the woman that runs the centre also lunges, but in a bridle then he will be used to that, and its only fair to him to all do the same thing with him.
I use a saddle if I'm getting on afters, otherwise I use a roller if I'm using side reins, but, I wouldnt put side reins on your boy until he'll settle and knows how to balance himself.
Kx

 

[PolarSkye]

I think I need some advice on lunging gear.

He is at a rescue center, and the woman that runs it told me to do this;

(Put him in his bridle and saddle.
Attach the lungeline by pulling it through the inside bit ring and attach it to the bit ring on the other side.)

Personally I don't like how she wants me to do it, I have just bought him a lunging cavesson.

When she is not there, I do like to lunge him without a lung line, as we are in a round pen anyway.

Can I just ask - is the woman who runs this rescue centre his owner? If so, it's a tad disrespectful to not do what she wants with her horse. Also, can you explain why you don't like the way she has asked you to lunge him with a bridle?

Lastly, lunging him without a lunge line is not lunging - it's loose schooling. When you lunge, you are exerting a different sort of control. If you would like to loose school him, I suggest you ask her first.

P

 

[Ibblebibble]

has anyone at the rescue lunged him? have they not assessed him before putting him up for loan? if they haven't it's bloomin irresponsible on their part! i would be asking them to lunge him to show you how to do it that way if he acts the same with them you know it is him not you
what is he like to walk in hand? if he is good, when you get in the pen walk around the outside with him until he's chilled out a bit and then slowly let the lunge line out so you are farther away from him, if at any point he tanks off reel him back in and make him walk with you again.

 

[NewerRider89]

He was loaned by another girl at the beginning of last year, she rarely, if ever, lunged him, apparently, she just used to ride him.
The woman who runs the rescue center does so mostly on her on, with no paid workers, only a few vlunteers. there are in excess of 60 horses there, so feeding/ poo picking takes their time up.
He hasn't been lunged by her, or anyone else there since the last girl loaned him.
He is a good boy to lead, groom, shoe and everything else.

The women who runs it feeds him, but that is all. He doesn't have an "owner" as such. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful with the lunging, I'm just trying to try different things. How else can I find out what works best for him.

And the only reason I dont like using the bridle with the lunge line is because at the stables where I ride, we were taught with a cavesson, it just seems more confortable then a bridle and bit. I'm no expert on bits, but the one he has is very big, and to me, looks like it would be very uncomfortable when pulled. It's the same bit he had when he was racing, so I guess it was one suited to him. But I'm trying to go for comfort first.

 

[crabbymare]

Not sure what you mean about the bit being big Do you mean that the mouthpiece is to big for his mouth or that it has a thick mouthpiece or big rings on it? I would let him get on with it and when he stops then I would start to do a bit with him but in the situation you are in it may be better to ask the oerson who runs the yard to spend 10 minutes with you showing you how to get him started as it sounds as if you have had some experience with horses that are trained to lunge but not those who need to be shown what to do. If you are letting him loose before you lunge try taking a mug of coffee or something to the pen and when you get the horse there as well drink it while you are waiting for him to get bored of running around, that may help you stay relaxed while he does his thing so you can start work in a better frame of mind!

 

[s4sugar]

Where are you as it sounds like you could do with an experienced eye casting over what is happening?

 

[NewerRider89]

Thanks CrabbyMare, I'll try that.
I just mean the mouthpeice is the biggest one ive ever seen, two very thick peices, and where they meet in the middle looks like it could inflict a lot of pain on the roof of his mouth.
As I say, it's been his for a long time, but it just looks very harsh to me.

 

[hayinamanger]

I would ditch the lunge whip (I hate the blimmin things) and just ignore him while he charges round. I wouldn't look at him or speak to him, just stand in the middle and send a few texts or read something.

 

[muff747]

Firstly, if not already, he needs to be turned out regularly, if he is in his box all day, he will want to run around when he gets out!
Yes I agree to ditch the lunge whip, some horses just bomb off at the very sight, and if my gelding wouldn't slow down or stop, I would point it behind me and tuck it under my arm.
He also may be very sensetive to eye contact and your body language as others have said. You need to turn your body angle away and don't look directly at him, eye contact in horsey language means go away, so he's doing just that! In Monty Roberts "From my Hands to Yours" book, to slow them down, he advises looking at the horses shoulder and repeatedly drawing your eyes backwards towards his hind legs, being aware to keep your head bowed, shoulders down and at an angle to him.
If you are a novice at this and haven't done any Natural Horsemanship reading, practice or training, I would not do any more lunging or loose schooling as you may be setting up the wrong conversation with him from the beginning and as with humans, you need to find a way to break the "getting off on the wrong foot" syndrome (forgive the pun) .
Good luck with him, it will be rewarding to end up with a calm useful horse.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Long rein him first then go in to a normal area not a round pen, if he has been chased round one previously he may think that is what you are asking, you don't need a whip by the sounds of things, is he going nicely in a bridle.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Firstly, if not already, he needs to be turned out regularly, if he is in his box all day, he will want to run around when he gets out!
Yes I agree to ditch the lunge whip, some horses just bomb off at the very sight, and if my gelding wouldn't slow down or stop, I would point it behind me and tuck it under my arm.
He also may be very sensetive to eye contact and your body language as others have said. You need to turn your body angle away and don't look directly at him, eye contact in horsey language means go away, so he's doing just that! In Monty Roberts "From my Hands to Yours" book, to slow them down, he advises looking at the horses shoulder and repeatedly drawing your eyes backwards towards his hind legs, being aware to keep your head bowed, shoulders down and at an angle to him.
If you are a novice at this and haven't done any Natural Horsemanship reading, practice or training, I would not do any more lunging or loose schooling as you may be setting up the wrong conversation with him from the beginning and as with humans, you need to find a way to break the "getting off on the wrong foot" syndrome (forgive the pun) .
Good luck with him, it will be rewarding to end up with a calm useful horse.

^^^^^^^^^this is all good common sense, if you are a novice, you are setting him up for a difficult transition, can you send him to a sympathetic trainer?

 

[NewerRider89]

He lives out permenantly, so that's not an issue. As I say, I have only lunged him twice so far, neither time have I brought in a lunging whip. I was just wondering if that might help in controlling him.
The second time, I got him to stay in trot, and then down to walk.

It's just the first 5-10 minutes is him racing around on his own accord, so I posted this to see if I should let him get it out of his system, or intervene, but after everyones comments I now know it's okay to let him have his moment.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

Hi Newer Rider,
This Ancient Hacker had a 30-year hiatus in riding (crazy!) but returned to it a couple of years ago starting, madly, with ex racehorses.... purely by chance, and also because I love TBs.

There are a couple of books that focus on re-training racehorses; haven't got around to getting the books, but they may be helpful.

One of my TBs came to me hot from the track, and I found that the greatest challenge was for ME to accept that if they're straight from racing they are really different from what we're used to. My experience MIGHT help you a little, I hope, so in essence this is how I've managed him:

1. Lots of working with him from the ground - simply handling, leading him, grooming, talking, teaching him to respect my space and respond to my voice.
2. To start him on lunge, I started first with his bridle, with a connector and lead rein. I simply led him around, walk, trot and LOTS of halts. I didn't carry a stick at all, initially.
3. I moved on to using a lunge rein, still walking and trotting on my short legs next to him, but gradually letting the lunge rein out longer. The greatest emphasis was on voice, with constant and consistent voice commands. Mainly Whoooaaaa!
4. I eventually (and this is very much a process, rather than an event!) used the full lunge rein and introduced a crop, rather than a lunge whip, as a pointer.
(NB I am SO not a lunge expert, as you can see!)
5. After a month or two I took off the lunge rein, and went back to walking next to him, using voice commands, and then was able to gradually change my position to the centre of the lunge ring and keep him moving and doing transitions on voice alone.
6. Lots of turnout time and freedom, between very short sessions of work.

There are, I know, many people here who can give greater and more technical and expert advice than I can. The above is simply my experience, and it worked for me and for the horse. After a few months he could be safely ridden in a snaffle, do very basic dressage, and jump 90 cm or so.

My racehorse had to be "re-programmed" to realise that he was no longer a running machine; he had to learn to accept affection and a relationship, learn to eat carrots (don't think he'd encountered them previously!) and to take things at a slower, calmer pace.

For me, the key was to adopt a slow and step by step approach - no rushing. The only small problem I still have is that he tends to twirl around when I mount, as though he's getting ready to be whacked into the starting pens. Oh, and of course, there are limitations to both my confidence and competence. Gentleness but firmness towards the horse, a calm voice, and a lack of force make up for my shortcomings, I hope.

Good luck with the horse; I hope that the above might offer some encouragement to you.