Help! Need some diet advice for a colic-prone horse!

[clockwork.satan]

Hey folks, hopefully you can help.

There's a bit of a saga here so I'll try to keep it short. My partner & I bought Einar, our three year old Highland Pony gelding a couple of years ago and while he is a beautiful wee chap, it would appear that he is rather delicate - particularly when compared to our last (and sadly no longer with us) Highland Pony Dougall who was tough as old boots in terms of his constitution and digestive system.

When Einar first arrived at our stables, he had very loose droppings - we thought that this could've been down to him travelling a fairly large distance (he come all the way from Orkney to Edinburgh) and also that the grazing here is much more rich than what he was used to. We were hoping that things would eventually settle down once he got used to things, but this has not really happened. His droppings are wildly inconsistent and in the space of a single day he can veer from having fairly firm 'normal' looking poos to ones that resemble cow-pats and despite everything we've tried we can't seem to find a solution.

Further adding to our misery is that fact that he is very, very prone to gas colic, so he needs to be muzzled from early spring all the way through to autumn/early winter otherwise we fear that he would literally eat himself into an early grave, so we're in a state of constant nerves at the thought of him getting the muzzle off as each and every time it does come off he ends up with colic and we end up with a hefty vet bill. Things have become more desperate recently though, as at the end of October he was diagnosed with mild laminitis and is currently on box-rest. The laminitis has passed now with thankfully no damage, but we can't shake the feeling that the colics, laminitis and the consitency of his droppings are all related as all of these things can be traced to problems with the hind gut.

In terms of what we're feeding him, he's currently on a 80/20 ratio (roughly speaking) of soaked/dry hay and gets 2-3 slices of Timothy Horsehage each day, with morning/evening feeds that consist of Top Chop Lite chaff, Progressive Earth Pro Laminae feed balancer, Protexin gut balancer, garlic granules, black salt and Valerian cordial to keep him (somewhat) calm.

Have any of you had similar experiences with your horses? Is it worth going down the route of sending a poo sample off to be analysed? And help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Scarlett]

I had similar issues with my tb, Inc the laminitis. He scoped clear for ulcers but was found to have inflammation of the hind gut. We tried steroids unsuccessfully before trying Equishure for hind gut acidosis. A year and a bit on and we are lami free and doing really well.

 

[twiggy2]

It might be worth trying him without the garlic and haylage for a month

 

[be positive]

Garlic can cause gut issues as it is mildly toxic and for some it is definitely a trigger, if he has been on it a long time just cutting that out may help.

I would get a blood test done, if you have not already done so, to test for worms/ worm damage and a general check to make sure everything is functioning normally, a poo sample will only show eggs if you use that as a guide to your worming regime, although it can be used to test for hind gut issues I think you really need a full profile to tackle this.

I would look into the possibility of ulcers, both stomach and hind gut if the above suggestions yield no results, I have never had one as sensitive as yours, fortunately, but like you would certainly think all the problems, including the laminitis, are linked to how he is digesting/ absorbing his food for a 3 year old to be having so much trouble suggests something amiss internally, it may be that you have to get him scoped and scanned to get to the bottom of it.

I would expect a youngster of his type to be living out 24/7 with minimum input from humans, he sounds as if he is almost a full time job.

 

[Fiona]

Our ID mare did very badly on haylege the one winter we used it, and is absolutely fine again on hay.

Droppings were as you described, though fortunately no colic.

Can you feed all hay rather than part hay/part haylege?

Fiona

 

[Birker2020]

Hey folks, hopefully you can help.

There's a bit of a saga here so I'll try to keep it short. My partner & I bought Einar, our three year old Highland Pony gelding a couple of years ago and while he is a beautiful wee chap, it would appear that he is rather delicate - particularly when compared to our last (and sadly no longer with us) Highland Pony Dougall who was tough as old boots in terms of his constitution and digestive system.

When Einar first arrived at our stables, he had very loose droppings - we thought that this could've been down to him travelling a fairly large distance (he come all the way from Orkney to Edinburgh) and also that the grazing here is much more rich than what he was used to. We were hoping that things would eventually settle down once he got used to things, but this has not really happened. His droppings are wildly inconsistent and in the space of a single day he can veer from having fairly firm 'normal' looking poos to ones that resemble cow-pats and despite everything we've tried we can't seem to find a solution.

Further adding to our misery is that fact that he is very, very prone to gas colic, so he needs to be muzzled from early spring all the way through to autumn/early winter otherwise we fear that he would literally eat himself into an early grave, so we're in a state of constant nerves at the thought of him getting the muzzle off as each and every time it does come off he ends up with colic and we end up with a hefty vet bill. Things have become more desperate recently though, as at the end of October he was diagnosed with mild laminitis and is currently on box-rest. The laminitis has passed now with thankfully no damage, but we can't shake the feeling that the colics, laminitis and the consitency of his droppings are all related as all of these things can be traced to problems with the hind gut.

In terms of what we're feeding him, he's currently on a 80/20 ratio (roughly speaking) of soaked/dry hay and gets 2-3 slices of Timothy Horsehage each day, with morning/evening feeds that consist of Top Chop Lite chaff, Progressive Earth Pro Laminae feed balancer, Protexin gut balancer, garlic granules, black salt and Valerian cordial to keep him (somewhat) calm.

Have any of you had similar experiences with your horses? Is it worth going down the route of sending a poo sample off to be analysed? And help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Had this with my WB import who has a very delicate stomach when it comes to grass. He was always getting gassy colic (at least weekly at one point). I'd moved to an ex dairy farm and the grazing was very rich. I had to muzzle him to start with but then he would manage to get the muzzle off and then gorge on the grass and this would give him colic! I couldn't strip graze as he used to go through electric fencing although eventually I did manage to do this sucessfully. The only thing that worked was putting him on pink powder (has probiotics) and turning him out for an hour for a week before upping it to two hours, and building up his time gradually. At his current cow free yard last summer he was able to go out overnight and has had three gassy colics in 18 months. There was a suspicion of a possible redworm burden, but he was reguarly wormed and it made no difference.

I asked the vet whether at the new yard it was better to strip graze or reduce his hours out and he said it was far more effective to reduce hours and slowly build on them, than to strip graze. Whether that is the general consensus with vets, or it was just something that was more appropriate to my own horse I am not sure.

I found with him that if there was mild weather followed by a bout of rain this would set off the colics, so it was clear that the grass growing the way it was by the dictating weather systems made the difference to him.

This time of year I am more worried about impaction colic. I try to get him to drink a bucket of warm water following exercise and wet his nets to avoid him getting dehydrated. He has an automatic waterer in his stable and when he is very thirsty empties it in seconds and then won't have the patience to wait for it to refill!

 

[clockwork.satan]

It might be worth trying him without the garlic and haylage for a month

He seems to respond really well to the Horsehage, actually - but we can't use the farm-provided haylage as it makes him ridiculously wet.

Garlic can cause gut issues as it is mildly toxic and for some it is definitely a trigger, if he has been on it a long time just cutting that out may help.

I would get a blood test done, if you have not already done so, to test for worms/ worm damage and a general check to make sure everything is functioning normally, a poo sample will only show eggs if you use that as a guide to your worming regime, although it can be used to test for hind gut issues I think you really need a full profile to tackle this.

I would look into the possibility of ulcers, both stomach and hind gut if the above suggestions yield no results, I have never had one as sensitive as yours, fortunately, but like you would certainly think all the problems, including the laminitis, are linked to how he is digesting/ absorbing his food for a 3 year old to be having so much trouble suggests something amiss internally, it may be that you have to get him scoped and scanned to get to the bottom of it.

I would expect a youngster of his type to be living out 24/7 with minimum input from humans, he sounds as if he is almost a full time job.

Cutting out Garlic sounds like a good idea. We'll be getting him tested for insulin resistance soon so we'll ask them to check for any other abnormalities. In terms of worming, the last time he was tested he only had a miniscule amount present but on a previous test (a year ago or so) he had a pretty high count. Since we're covered by insurance right now for the Laminitis I guess we could get him scoped if the vet is willing to do it. All good suggestions, thanks!

Our ID mare did very badly on haylege the one winter we used it, and is absolutely fine again on hay.

Droppings were as you described, though fortunately no colic.

Can you feed all hay rather than part hay/part haylege?

Aaah, lucky you! We've tried several different combinations and part of the reason we're feeding the Horsehage right now is to keep him entertained while he's on box rest. Normally he'd just be on ad-lib (non-soaked) hay and his feeds, and that would be that.

Had this with my WB import who has a very delicate stomach when it comes to grass. He was always getting gassy colic (at least weekly at one point). I'd moved to an ex dairy farm and the grazing was very rich. I had to muzzle him to start with but then he would manage to get the muzzle off and then gorge on the grass and this would give him colic! I couldn't strip graze as he used to go through electric fencing although eventually I did manage to do this sucessfully. The only thing that worked was putting him on pink powder (has probiotics) and turning him out for an hour for a week before upping it to two hours, and building up his time gradually. At his current cow free yard last summer he was able to go out overnight and has had three gassy colics in 18 months. There was a suspicion of a possible redworm burden, but he was reguarly wormed and it made no difference.

I asked the vet whether at the new yard it was better to strip graze or reduce his hours out and he said it was far more effective to reduce hours and slowly build on them, than to strip graze. Whether that is the general consensus with vets, or it was just something that was more appropriate to my own horse I am not sure.

I found with him that if there was mild weather followed by a bout of rain this would set off the colics, so it was clear that the grass growing the way it was by the dictating weather systems made the difference to him.

This time of year I am more worried about impaction colic. I try to get him to drink a bucket of warm water following exercise and wet his nets to avoid him getting dehydrated. He has an automatic waterer in his stable and when he is very thirsty empties it in seconds and then won't have the patience to wait for it to refill!

Oh, now it sounds like you've been through the mill too and much of what you've said resonates! We've got Einar on an ex-dairy farmer's yard - and despite pleading with the owner, he still fertilises the fields and doesn't allow strip-grazing - so we're looking to move elsewhere at some point. We've not tried the pink powder yet but have tried other pre-and-pro-biotics with little to no effect - but it's worth trying if it made a difference for you.

We've tried the building-up time in the field thing too, which worked to an extent but ultimately ended up with him getting gassy colic. He's a wee hairy nightmare!

I had similar issues with my tb, Inc the laminitis. He scoped clear for ulcers but was found to have inflammation of the hind gut. We tried steroids unsuccessfully before trying Equishure for hind gut acidosis. A year and a bit on and we are lami free and doing really well.

I've not heard of that Equishure stuff - and it sounds like you've had similar problems to what we're having at the moment. I think I might give that stuff a go as we do think there's acidosis going on in Einar's hind gut - hopefully we'll manage to get a lid on this soon!

 

[Scarlett]

I've not heard of that Equishure stuff - and it sounds like you've had similar problems to what we're having at the moment. I think I might give that stuff a go as we do think there's acidosis going on in Einar's hind gut - hopefully we'll manage to get a lid on this soon!

As far as I know Equishure is the only thing that can sort out acidosis, its sodium bicarb in a buffer that makes sure it travels to the hind gut. I'd had 3 years of problems with mine, in hindsight his symptoms matched acidosis, but saw improvements in 3 days and had a different horse in a week. I've kept him on it the last year, I'm too scared to stop it. It's turned him around and helped show us the horse we always thought he could be. It's not cheap if you buy the small pots but I'd recommend trying it given the symptoms. I had to remove haylage and limit grass for a while too as these were both triggers, we've been able to reintroduce both now, he was even out 24/7 in summer on good grass which I really didnt think would be a possibility ever again. Good luck.

 

[clockwork.satan]

As far as I know Equishure is the only thing that can sort out acidosis, its sodium bicarb in a buffer that makes sure it travels to the hind gut. I'd had 3 years of problems with mine, in hindsight his symptoms matched acidosis, but saw improvements in 3 days and had a different horse in a week. I've kept him on it the last year, I'm too scared to stop it. It's turned him around and helped show us the horse we always thought he could be. It's not cheap if you buy the small pots but I'd recommend trying it given the symptoms. I had to remove haylage and limit grass for a while too as these were both triggers, we've been able to reintroduce both now, he was even out 24/7 in summer on good grass which I really didnt think would be a possibility ever again. Good luck.

Oooft, it is a wee bit expensive but if we cut out the garlic, black salt and Protexin it would probably balance out cost-wise. Definitely worth trying!

 

[Birker2020]

Oh, now it sounds like you've been through the mill too and much of what you've said resonates! We've got Einar on an ex-dairy farmer's yard - and despite pleading with the owner, he still fertilises the fields and doesn't allow strip-grazing - so we're looking to move elsewhere at some point. We've not tried the pink powder yet but have tried other pre-and-pro-biotics with little to no effect - but it's worth trying if it made a difference for you.

We've tried the building-up time in the field thing too, which worked to an extent but ultimately ended up with him getting gassy colic. He's a wee hairy nightmare!


!

Interesting about the connection with the dairy farm. Cows eat grass in a different way to horses. I think they bite the stalk of the grass and cut it much shorter and it grows back thicker and richer. Obviously with all the manure they fertilise the field anyway and with the farmer adding fertiliser himself its no wonder your poor horse can't cope.

Yes it sounds like a change of yard is a necessity. It worked for me!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wrote a detailed reply and lost it! But basically take him off everything except hay, consult your vet and give him Equishure for hind-gut issues