Help needed proving to parents...

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beckibraveheart

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Hi guys,

I posted not so long ago about my horse seeming to be lame through the shoulder. Well, we've since rested him and had the vet out again. He did the flexion test and he's hopping lame on his supposedly sound leg, and still not right in his unsound leg. His trot is almost like a shuffle, he can't stride out fully and he's not happy. Plus that he keeps tripping up. The vet dropped the horrible 'N' word, which I hope it's not, but I want to get him taken up to their surgery for nerve blocks and x rays etc now. Here's the hard bit.

Unfortunately at the moment I can't afford the vets bills to take him up there. I'm trying to persuade my dad to help me out, however even after seeing him last night with me and seeing how, when I picked his leg up, he wouldn't stretch it forward, he still doesn't believe there's anything wrong with him as he's not hopping in walk, he's only slightly unsound and very stiff in trot - I've owned him for 8 years and I just know something's not right. Can anyone help me word it to him so that I can say it's common sense that a horse may be very very subtly and even not lame in walk, but isn't happy in trot?
 
Many horses will look 100% in walk but very different in trot, they can walk without putting too much weight on any individual leg, in trot they cannot avoid putting all their weight on the sore leg so any lameness is more obvious because it hurts them, frequently they also look ok in canter.

Your parents do need to take responsibility and help you pay for treatment, assuming you are at school and not working, but also explain to your vet that the horse is not insured so they only do what is required to find out what is wrong and be able to suggest treatment.

It sounds like he is bilaterally lame in front, usually this will be in the feet which if nothing shows on xray is likely to be soft tissue damage only confirmed by very expensive MRI but there are lots of options available once you have a diagnosis, without a diagnosis you will have no idea where to start with treatment, a basic nerve block and xrays should not be too expensive and will give you somewhere to start but may not be conclusive unfortunately.
 
Thankyou, hit the nail on the head! Yes the vet thinks he's bilaterally lame too. Unfortunately the sad part is is I'm 23 nearly and in a full time job, but have only got a job paying peanuts at the moment while I struggle to climb up the job ladder! (Having sent out 100 applications this month alone, grr!)

In all fairness, he has been very good usually, paying out nearly £7k in vets bills whenever needed (and managing to claim a fair portion back in return). However he's understandably getting fed up of paying vets bills, even though I've offered to get an extra temporary job over Christmas to help pay every penny back to him. We're also with the dreaded E&L, so we now have arthritis and tendon exclusions on our policy :/

I just need to try and explain it to him in a way that will make him wake up and realise he needs treating; my dad is very much of the opinion that any ailment can be cured by mild rest and simply "getting on with it". But he doesn't seem to see that it doesn't work that way with horses and legs... :/
 
Can't you claim on your insurance?

The other avenue is to set up a payment plan with your vet.

To be fair - this is your problem, not your parents. They simply may not have the money.
 
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It doesn't really help that you are working but if he is insured the exclusions should not matter in this case, they should pay for the tests, rest often works but only if there is a known reason for the lameness, in this case is is likely to require diagnosis before you know what you are up against and can move forward.
If you do end up paying can you come to an arrangement where you pay it back, however slowly, your dad may see that as an option that shows you are not taking him for granted, not that I am suggesting you do.
 
Cheers AmyMay, really helpful...he does have the money - we're not poor, but as I say - he's been wonderful in forking out money for vets bills before, it's just this time he doesn't see the problem, even though it's obvious to me, the vet, and everyone else on the yard who is horsey. And as I said, arthritis and tendon injuries are excluded on the policy. '

My dad understands that I'm on a peanuts wage - I manage everything else independently, stabling fees, car fees, phone bill etc. It's just that I'm left over with so little at the end of every month that I simply can't afford massive vets bills. The investigation alone is likely to be around £500, and unfortunately with us being insured with E&L , our vets simply won't wait until they pay up as they take months; they want us to pay it up front first, or at least in large chunks. I can only afford £100 per month, and they've said they just can't afford to let me do this, very apologetically.

As I say, I don't really need help arranging payment plans. It's hard to explain but I've exhausted every avenue in that aspect. The only way to afford it is to borrow it off my dad. I just need help explaining it to him, so he can see that I'm not imagining this lameness. I can't just keep resting my boy in the hope that he'll magically cure himself; I don't know how to treat him, whether I should stretch his leg more or give him complete rest, I just need to know what it is. Especially if it is navicular.
 
Then you need to sit down with your dad and calmly explain the position.

As it stands there is nothing to stop you making a claim - and he should get some money back directly from the insurance when they pay up.

But you need to explain your position, your lack of funds and the law stating that your horse receives adequate veterinary treatment when required.

If he says no, I guess you have to throw yourself at the mercy of the vet's or get a loan off the bank.
 
If I was in your situation, I'd forget dad for the moment and get on with prioritising how you'll look into it keeping within your budget.

I'd be writing a list of things which it might be. You mention insurance exclusions. Make sure you have the full details of why these things were excluded. Could they be contributing to, or be fully responsible, for the current problem? If so, you may have to accept that the horse will never be sound and there may be tough decisions ahead.

Speak to the vet and write down all the point that they say. Have a list of questions before you speak to them. If I were you, I'd be wanting to know what they suspect most, and why. And also what they are ruling out and why. If you are prepared to speak openly about difficult issues, they may be more prepared to open up and say what they really think.

Other than that, worth asking what your farrier thinks. They see so many horses, and whilst it's only vets who can legally diagnose, a good farrier (or anyone else who's good at observing lots of different horses) may be able to say whether they've seen other horses looking similar, and what was wrong with them. It might just give you an idea of how best to spend limited funds looking into what's wrong.

Have you ruled out relatively simple things like foot abscesses, laminitis etc. Have the feet been well trimmed/shod or is there any scope for improvements there.

Are there ways in which you can reduce costs in other areas in order to free up some funds for investigations.

You won't be the only client your vets have seen with limited funds. Ask the vet (or office staff) for ballpark costs for whatever investigations they think might be worthwhile, so you can weigh up which way to go.

Also worth asking how a particular course of investigation would affect the outcome. For example, there may be no point in testing for one particular thing if there is no specific treatment option in the light of the results from that test. However, sometimes it's helpful to get a diagnosis even if there is no treatment available - it just seems to help decision-making.

Worth taking some video too and looking at it yourself and asking others to, in case that helps pinpoint the area that's the problem.

I hope you find a way to help resolve things.

Sarah
 
Is this a new injury or an old one, ie how long do you have left on the insurance before they no longer pay out for it? First things first I'd e changing my insurance company to be totally honest!

How many injuries has the horse had? I've had my horse 9 years, and the last three years he's had three different leg injuries all requiring investigation and treatment, total vets bills on insurance probably to dissimilar to yours, I know how it feels to have any spare cash be spent vets bills!

My strategy now is turning him away, take his shoes off and try to rehab him to being barefoot, which could be a fab option for you if the N word has been mentioned from what I understand. This has been helped my being pregnant/ having a young baby as I'm less able to ride anyway. He's now had two full months on the field with no shoes, and will likely have at least another two before I consider getting back on. Chiro is booked for December (earliest available appt :D ) so I'm defiantly waiting til after that to do anything.

Would this be an option for you? As I do kind of see your dads point, there's only so much money you want to throw at a horse I think, ESP when it's not your money. Plus having shoes off should save you see money and a couple of months off the rehab might be enough to fix him, what injuries has the horse had already? :)
 
I've honestly no idea if the injury is new or old - neither me, nor the vet, nor the yard owner with 40 years of horse experience, nor anyone else on the yard with around 100 years of horse experience combined, can even guess what it is! He's not showing any external injuries, apart from not being happy in trot and canter. I could ask the farrier, or try a physio or anything, but I'd rather go down the conventional route first before throwing money at random guesses. I'm a very logical person; I like knowing what's wrong first before going about treating it. Especially as my bet is still on arthritis :/ I really hope it's not the N word! I'd be happy to go down the barefoot route (apart from the fact that his front feet are as brittle as ice), but I want to find out what I'm dealing with first.

Thanks to everyone, I've managed to convince my dad that a horse CAN be lame in trot without having to be hopping in walk. Plus that, money is nothing where my horse's life is concerned. My dad knows I'll pay him every penny back, it's just the paying out up front that's the problem!
 
If you (the owner of the horse, and an adult) cannot afford to pay vets fees, then the options are: A. Get a loan; B. Put the horse down. Doing nothing is not an option.
 
If you have a phone and tv package, cancel it and get a cheap pay as you go handset until you have a better job. Sell any decent technology that you don't actually need for work, get a pay as you go internet dongle, etc. Its coming up to xmas, electonic goods in good condition will sell but try to sell privately as you will get more cash than if you sell to a middle man.

Have been there.
 
beckibraveheart said:
I could ask the farrier, or try a physio or anything, but I'd rather go down the conventional route first before throwing money at random guesses.
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Asking the farrier is not a random guess, also you wont be throwing money away as i assume you have the farrier out every 7 weeks or so anyway?

My cob went hopping lame in walk, mystery lameness never been lame before in his life. I box rested him, nothing, farrier was out to do his feet anyway and within an hour after examination of feet and shoes he 'unofficially' diagnosed sidebone.

Farrier was convinced he was right, he gave me the full run down and care routine...he was taking a risk given it wasn't an official diagnosis but he was betting his life on that he was right.

I did get investigations carried out by the vet, these took nearly 4 weeks!. Nerve block, xrays, box rest and one very unhappy cob having people prodding and poking at his feet, that horse went through a really tough time. Finally after the vet diagnosing all sorts of rubbish an xray proved sidebone, it could be seen as clear as day on the film.

My farrier is absolutely brilliant and when it comes to feet i listen to his opinion first. I should have taken his advice in the first place, gone straight for an xray and not allowed the vet 4 weeks to faff about.

Point of this is......the farrier is not a waste of time, i'm not saying he will find the problem but he good starting point
 
My farrier only recently came out (just literally before the lameness) and he's not due out anytime soon, and unfortunately he does not live locally :( I'm trying to see if he's coming down between now and when I have to take my horse up to the vet's, but it's not looking likely that he can come. I trust my vets, and I'd rather work out what the problem is first.

Arizahn, thankyou for the suggestions but unfortunately I live at home as I've come out with masses of student debt from having to live out :( I'm looking at selling my trailer, but it won't be a quick fix and the risk is is that I won't be able to sell it in time to pay the bills. I've got an interview for a second job working evenings straight after my shifts. I'd do anything for my boy.

And Cortez, don't be so disgustingly judgemental. You've no idea what goes on in people's private lives, and I'm not a life waster. I'd never put my horse down without one hell of a reason. He's my life.
 
beckibraveheart said:
I trust my vets, and I'd rather work out what the problem is first.
.
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What i'm trying to say is a good farrier can diagnose a multitude of problems without the vet. Just because the vet has the Veterinary title it doesn't mean they are the only ones that can locate and diagnose a problem.

I also trust my vet (the one i had doing Red's feet was a locum and not my usual vet) but my farrier is a specialist in feet and asking for his advice is not cutting corners.
 
At the moment financies are not a problem as such, its convincing your dad to pay the bills.

What would you do if your financial situation was different, how would you look to get around this situation?
 
I don't even want to think about it. I'm fortunate I'm in the position where my parents would be able to fund me, if they believe it was right. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have gone to university and probably would be earning more by now *sigh*.

But yeah, the whole reason I started this thread was how to explain to my dad that a horse can be sound in walk but lame in trot. Thanks everyone for their input, he thinks I've proven my point now :)
 
beckibraveheart said:
I don't even want to think about it. I'm fortunate I'm in the position where my parents would be able to fund me, if they believe it was right. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have gone to university and probably would be earning more by now *sigh*.

But yeah, the whole reason I started this thread was how to explain to my dad that a horse can be sound in walk but lame in trot. Thanks everyone for their input, he thinks I've proven my point now :)
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I know exactly what your saying. I grew up in a very wealthy farming environment, went to uni expected to fall into a high paying job as soon as i graduated....reality soon hit! When i was your age the Bank of Mum and Dad was a bottomless pit, i thought the same, they would fund me regardless......unfortunately things can go wrong and go wrong very quickly. I'm a lot older than you, and know from experience its always wise to have a plan B and have an idea of where your financies are going to come from should the **** hit the fan
 
Well my parents are my best friends, so if I fall out with them id be really upset! I try not to treat my dad as a bank, however much I joke about it, but I do appreciate all he does for me
 
yaffsimone1 said:
What i'm trying to say is a good farrier can diagnose a multitude of problems without the vet. Just because the vet has the Veterinary title it doesn't mean they are the only ones that can locate and diagnose a problem.
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It's the law that says the vet is the only one who can diagnose lameness the farrier is not trained to it and it's unlawful for him to try.
 
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