help needed regarding elderly dog please

misst

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Not sure why I am posting this but maybe it will help me get a handle on things. Its going to be long I am afraid. Sorry.

Two and a half years ago we took on a lovely dog age unknown but somewhere between 9 and 11 so now she will be somewhere between 11 and a half and thirteen and a half. She is a beautiful (to us) cross breed - maybe some corgi maybe some staff and others too. She is a heavily built (not fat) medium sized dog approx the height of a small lab.

She is wonderful and has always been a good girl with a lovely loving nature and good in all ways. She has always been stiff and arthritic but has got worse in the last 6 months. She can still do the stairs and get on the sofa so we just live life at her pace and she seems content. She is a real treasure. We love her to bits.

The vet thinks she is ok on her pravicox and occasional gabapentin and we have decided that we will not get joint replacements etc but manage her conservatively. She has had a tough life so we feel she would not cope with major surgery etc. She enjoys her walks with a bit of a run around ( 30 seconds worth( then a slow steady plod. She then sleeps most of the day.

Lately she has taken to barking a lot if we go upstairs - as if she is looking for us even though she knows where we are. Even when our other dog is in the same room she will randomly start barking. We don't mind - on the whole we just laugh - but it is a change in her and new.

She has always been a clean dog in the house unless her tummy is upset so we watch her diet and she has wainwrights duck and rice senior as she likes this and it suits her tummy - firm poos etc. However we have notice that instead of squatting to poo she now often poos walking along "bombing" as she goes! The vet thinks it is because it is uncomfortable for her to squat but she squats to wee.... For the last week and a half she has pooed randomly in the house even after going outside for a wee. She seems unaware of having done it and it is always in a line from wherever she has been sitting/lying to wherever she finishes up. She is never told off for this as I believe she is not being naughty - I just pick it up and we carry on as if nothing has happened.

Sooooo are we doing right not telling her off? In the past if she had an upset tummy she would always look frightened and upset (thinks she has been punished in the past). I cannot confine her to one room - she will bark. She sleeps in our bedroom on a bed next to us and I think she would be very very unhappy stuck downstairs.

I suppose the question I am asking is are we reaching the end? Her back legs do give way sometimes but overall she is pretty ok. She likes her walks and even tries to play with other dogs sometimes until she realises she cannot. She loves her cuddles and she loves lying on the sofa watching the squirrels out of the patio door. Although we have not had her long we do love her very much and always thought we would not have her more than 2 or 3 years given age and arthritis but intended to give her a "happy retirement" after her rubbish life. She owes us nothing. BUT my husband finds the poo in the house difficult and I must admit it is getting me down.

So all you dog people - any suggestions please? Am going to speak to the vet again but I don't think it is pain related as it is totally random and she seems completely unaware. She has had her spine checked she has normal but stiff preprioconception (is that the right word?).

Thanks for reading my rambling post.
 

paddi22

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If it was my dog, i'd get pts. It sounds like it's had a lovely life but it's reached the stage where it will only be downhill from now. I'd end it peacefully before the dog starts find things harder and harder and getting more stressed, which sounds like is starting to happen. She is a good age, and sounds like she's had a fab few years being loved.
 

satinbaze

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My criteria when maya was nearing the end was if she could still get up from lying independently and could pee and poo normally. When she fell over trying to wee and needed help to get up I realised she was ready to go.
One excellent piece of advice I heard was to think of your dogs 3 favourite things (eg. Walks food playing with toys) and as long as they can still do 2 out of the 3 then they are not yet ready.
I hope this helps
 

MotherOfChickens

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My old dog is a bit before yours by the sounds of it-his back end is going but he's not incontinent, can get up by himself and actually in the last few weeks has had something of a new lease of life. He's still going out for 45mins walks every day and plays with the younger dog alot. I've always said, that as soon as he can't get up by himself/messes in the house consistently etc then its time. He also barks for no apparent reason although his eyesight isn't as good as it was and for some reason he's decided border collies are his nemesis!.

I think satinblaze's advice is sound. Remember the vet isn't seeing everything you are and if you think its time then be confident with your decision-better a little soon imo, when you can plan ahead and decide the hows of the different options. And also, thank you for taking in an older dog to start with x.
 

Amicus

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I think you've probably accessed the situation properly, no point telling her off for pooing as she doesn't know she's doing it, I suspect they'll won't be anything the vet can realistically do about it, although no harm asking. It sounds like you've given her a fantastic retirement and had wonderful times together. I think when you decide the end is quite personal, if you think she's still happy then keep going but I believe in the better a week to early than a day to late.
 

misst

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Thank you all. It helps to write it down sometimes and get another perspective.

SB I think that is a good rule actually re 3 favourite things, and she has just got back from a 45 minute sniff and plod round the common where she met a few other dogs and was visibly happy if stiff. She also still loves her food. She gets up onto the sofa albeit with an effort and is still wagging her tail a lot - so maybe we can wait a little longer. The minute she cannot do stairs I know it will be the end no matter what as she is too heavy to carry up and hates being left at night.

I will put her outside a little more often in the hope that being out will stimulate her to poo! If she gets distressed by it then again that will be that. If she becomes incontinent of urine that will also be the end.

MoC I think you are right - she is my responsibility and the vet is not there every day so will keep strong to my own opinion.

So for now we will carry on and take it one day at a time. I do think we shall not have her a lot longer though. However she has been a joy and a surprise. She was frightened and shut down and depressed when we got her. No eye contact and very very sad. Now she steals toast from our plates and gets on the furniture, she barks (that took 6 months for her to do) and she is loving and cheeky but still better behaved than my little JRT who we have had since 9 weeks!

If anyone is thinking of taking on an older dog I cannot recommend them enough - no matter how sad we will be when she goes we will never regret taking her on - she has given more joy than we could have imagined.

I will update on her as things go on. Thank you everyone..
 

MotherOfChickens

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is the gabapentin for pain relief then, I thought it was for epilepsy? my old boy is on loxicom and I also have some tramadol if I think he needs it or might need it-its very effective for him although I've not had to use it for weeks. frequent, controlled short walks (ie on a lead) might also help her poop more frequently outside as well?
 

misst

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Gabapentin is not licenced for dogs for nerve pain ( sciatica type pain ) but my vet thinks it can be helpful. Tramadol did not make any difference to her and the gabapentin seems to help. She goes out willingly and wees but then just wanders around even when I am saying "do a poo" in a silly voice - used to work well and works with my jrt. She then walks in and as she is walking down the hall or through the lounge a minute late the poo lumps just fall out of her bum! :-0 She seems unaware of having done it. She also poos like this on walks so I think her muscles must be weak or something!! Will speak to the vet anyway....
When the weather is good she has free access to the garden but again goes out wanders aimlessly and then comes in and drops a poo sometimes but not every time. She poos in the morning and evening but also sometimes in the day so is a bit unpredictable.
For now I think we will put up with it....... Someone did suggest nappies but I am not keen - I think I would PTS before nappies..
 

misst

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typed a long reply and lost it!

She scored quite well on those quality of life scores overall so maybe not quite ready yet. She wandered off on a walk tonight. She does this if we don't watch her. Husband took her and jrt out and realised he only had one dog half way round. We live on a common with no roads to cross so she has wandered home before. She is quite deaf so cannot hear you call if she is far away. She was picked up by a nice man who walked with her. She led him home! Husband was in a panic but nice man had left a message on our home phone to say he had her and was following her as she seemed to know where she was going! Bless her she was completely unphased by the whole thing. Luckily I was at work so did not know. She is such a funny old thing, very friendly and loves black dogs - this man had 2 so husband thinks that is why she followed him. He remembers seeing the man and dogs earlier in the walk so thinks she just veered off and followed him instead! Maybe he will keep a closer eye next time!

Anyway she seems bright at the moment again and no further poos in the house since this morning. So will take each day as it comes and will take her to the vet again later this week. I would love to give her this summer at least - we shall see.... thank you everyone.
 

Princess16

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Thank you all. It helps to write it down sometimes and get another perspective.

SB I think that is a good rule actually re 3 favourite things, and she has just got back from a 45 minute sniff and plod round the common where she met a few other dogs and was visibly happy if stiff. She also still loves her food. She gets up onto the sofa albeit with an effort and is still wagging her tail a lot - so maybe we can wait a little longer. The minute she cannot do stairs I know it will be the end no matter what as she is too heavy to carry up and hates being left at night.

I will put her outside a little more often in the hope that being out will stimulate her to poo! If she gets distressed by it then again that will be that. If she becomes incontinent of urine that will also be the end.

MoC I think you are right - she is my responsibility and the vet is not there every day so will keep strong to my own opinion.

So for now we will carry on and take it one day at a time. I do think we shall not have her a lot longer though. However she has been a joy and a surprise. She was frightened and shut down and depressed when we got her. No eye contact and very very sad. Now she steals toast from our plates and gets on the furniture, she barks (that took 6 months for her to do) and she is loving and cheeky but still better behaved than my little JRT who we have had since 9 weeks!

If anyone is thinking of taking on an older dog I cannot recommend them enough - no matter how sad we will be when she goes we will never regret taking her on - she has given more joy than we could have imagined.

I will update on her as things go on. Thank you everyone..

Think you've said it all. What a lucky girl she is having you in her life.
 

Luci07

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Sorry you are facing this. Having very recently lost my oldest Stafford bitch, I know exactly what you are going through. Its quite astounding just how much you will put up with when you know the dog is doing it due to age and not misbehaving. Mine started weeing constantly. The only thing I can think of to help with the poo episode is to try to keep her out in the garden until she has been? Mine tend to have specific times when they need to "go do" and perhaps yours do as well.

And yes to the having an older dog. My mother drives me nuts because she keeps banging on how she cant take the heartache, she ignores the fact that an older dog has had a chance to enjoy a good life and not be PTS or left in kennels. I am not getting another dog as I had 4 and now 3 is much easier to manage.
 

misst

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Luci07 I took her out 3 times this morning and eventually she pooed so lots and lots of praise. I know she goes morning and evening so thought I had cracked it. Took her to my mums as mum enjoys going for a walk with my dogs. Walking along the pavement to the woods and she just let it fall out again as she went! I picked it up of course but it is strange - she definitely did not stop or squat - just carried on happily pootling along with my mum with a line of poo along the pavement behind her. She is now fast asleep on the sofa and has not moved since we got home. She enjoyed herself so she definitely still has some good quality of life. I am going to hang on to those score sheets as they give a really good guide and I can score her regularly and see if there is deterioration - I think it will help with the decision when the time comes.

I agree with you - everyone told us not to take an old dog as we would not have her long. But we have had her 2 and a half years and it has been lovely - you never know how long you will have your dog or horse or cat or even OH! She will leave us some lovely memories and she has made us laugh a lot. All the family love her and my little JRT (who is my "baby") gets along just fine with her. They share our bed when we go out (they think we don't know!) and will share food. If we end up getting another dog eventually we will almost certainly get another oldie - they are so rewarding! Much less trouble than a puppy and just as funny in their own ways!
 

paulineh

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I have an elderly Springer Spaniel whose back legs are slowly going. He is 14 1/2 yrs old. He is incontinent at times , but after changing him to RAW food his poo's have been much better and he is not as bad. He has Arthritis and a couple if other problems which are controlled well.

He loves his walks , although shorter these days. He is the first one by the door to go out for his walks and still loves going to bed in the kennels, I have also got 2 more Springer's (13 months and 4 yrs) He plays with them and they are so gentle with him.

A couple of months ago I thought I would have to make that decision but he perked up.

I look at 3 things , Eating , enjoying his walks and how his system is working.

I will know when the time comes and will do the right thing for him.
 

L&M

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I love having older dogs too - I look at the trouble puppies and younger dogs can get into and thank my lucky star's for my two 'oap's'!

They are both in their early teens and in relatively good health, the spaniel has had a couple of vestibular attacks and going deaf, but other than that still enjoy their walks and trips out, and eat well. They are so easy as once excercised and fed are content to sleep/potter for the rest of the day.

My rules for older dogs is that I have them pts before they really start to struggle, rather a day too early than a day too late. I will also not tolerate regular incontinence as the dogs often find this humiliating, equally if mobility is compromised so that they can't enjoy even a little gentle exercise, this is when I would make a decision.

Your lady sounds like she is still enjoying life and too early to call it day, but I would carefully monitor.

Good luck and sounds like she has a lovely home and life.
 

misst

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Well we have had another good day with pooing outside instead of inside. Paulineh my JRT is fed raw but this dog came to me on science plan and I swapped to the wainwrights duck and rice senior as she is a bit "loose" on raw - which is odd but I put it down to years of poor diet and poor care and maybe it was too late to change. She does not have diarrhoea or loose stool - just firm "logs" if you will pardon the expression! They just seem to drop out.. Anyway she is bright today and seems better than at the start of the week.
I think like your oldie she is just up and down. For now she is more up than down so we will carry on.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and it is good to know she is not the only old girl out there who is a bit wobbly at times. I have never had an ancient dog before - my JRT is 10 and full of beans and my previous dog was PTS years ago for a brain tumour so this is all new to me.

We just want the best for her so we will keep on keeping on and go to the vet on Friday for a check up anyway.
 

Carlosmum

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One of our old dogs became a little senile & would behave rather strangely at times including a degree of incontinence. You will know when it is time. good luck its a horribly difficult decision to make.
 

budatiger

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Hi, she sounds a lovely sweet old girl & very lucky to have found you.
A quick note about gabapentin. Your initial post implied taking as and when. It actually needs to be constant and built up gradually for effectiveness, and equally when being stopped. I have to take it for pain relief, as does my dog. It takes a week or so of dosing to become effective. It's worked well for my girl. She was having accidents etc and a but withdrawn due to pain, but now more like herself. Good luck.
 

misst

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Thank you budatiger I was not aware of that - she has been having it for about a month then tailing it off then maybe a couple of months off before using it again - it does take a while to kick in. I was under the impression it was bad for her to stay on it too long (she has poor kidney function on blood testing though is symptom free). At the moment she is bright and quite active for her. She is pooing outside provided I put her out regularly but had an accident again in the house when I was in the shower. She was not bothered and seemed unaware though it was by the front door! I just cleared it up and left her be - I am convinced that she does not always know she has been!
She is a really honey though so not going anywhere yet. My JRT did have a very funny disgusted look on her face though - she definitely did not want the blame for it!
 
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