Help needed to progress with my 4 year old...

[ABC]

Hello

My 4 year old TB is my main man and I have really high hopes for him in the future. However recently we've hit a rocky patch.

On the ground he is now the perfect horse to handle. He was very nervy when I first got him, just very untrusting of strangers, however now he is fine.

Lunging-wise he is perfect. Responds to voice commands, and really enjoys it. Really uses his hind quarters well.

I've also lunged him over trotting poles, and small jumps and he is a natural.

Anyway, riding wise = nightmare.

He was backed in October. Or so I was told. I got told he was sent away to be backed for 5 weeks, and I continued his education once I'd bought him. He was going really nicely, and I was seriously considering entering some small competitions with him.

Anyway, on two occaisions he was totally out of character when I mounted him. Once he reared. The other he bucked until I was on the floor.

So I got the vet, and then the physio out. And was advised to do massages for two weeks. one week of long reining, and then ride.

But, he will not let me on. He wont let anyone on....

I'm at loss as to what to do.

I have bought a full body suit and stuffed it with straw. He will quite happily have that on his back and walk around, though he is slightly hesistant.

I havent had his saddle on him for ages, just in case. And I put it on the other day and took him on a ten minute walk (had a poly pad underneath), untacked him and he was fine. However went to put it on 20 minutes later, without the polypad, just to take some pictures, and his ears went flat back.

I am not sure whether he is still in pain (doubt it... ) , saddle doesn't fit (i've been told it does by 4 seperate saddlers, but Im still unconvinced...) or whether he just associates being ridden with pain.

I was thinking of sending him to be re-schooled but I can't afford this right now. I have got the details for a woman named Lisa Jones, who will travel to me and help (I assume offer advice as to what to do next, and possibly help reschool him) so I don'y know whether I should give that a try?

Any advice greatly recieved, it seems such a shame for him not to be reaching his potential. I'm in Lancashire, Rossendale, just in case anyone can recommend anyone to me.

Thanks and regards,

Can post pictures of saddle if required, but they arent the best.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Do you have another horse that you can lead him out on, to get him used to the idea of someone above him.
To be honest some horses get a bad experience when being backed and never really get over it, but it is strange that he lets you put a pad on the note in the same day. Have you never ridden him successfully?
Did you try him when you bought him, if so why not?
If he was ok, did you get a blood test and a five star vetting?
did you buy him from a local sales?

 

[Miss L Toe]

I would be avoid sending him away as he needs to get used to his new home, and it will cost a fortune, and may not work, I would work away with him, feed soaked hay when stabled, grass 12/7 no molasses, no feed other than molasses free chaff, and a magnesium calmer at full dose, keep to a very strict routine, no treats, no patting, make sure he is totally well mannered, tie him up in his stable before you do all the checks and grooming, lift feet every day, groom every day, walk out in a saddle [stirrups flapping by his side after you leave the stable] and bridle to make sure he is used to the bit.
When grooming stand on a bale and get him used to you being above his eye-line, you need to check for any tenderness every day along the spine, and put your arms over his back, then your upper body, every day a little more, re-assure him but don't put an excessive amount of pressure on him, mentally or physically.
After a month of ground work in a saddle, introduce another handler and a small jockey who can sit anything, after he gets to know them and shows no fear, ride him bareback, a roller and a hessian sack are my preference, also a neckstrap.

 

[Circe]

Id be tempted to get the vet and or the physio out again for follow up.
You say your not convinced about the git of the saddle ?
The fact he was going nicely enough for you to consider taking him to some comps, then suddenly hes behaving out of character makes me think hes got or has had pain.
If you are sure that physically hes fine, maybe see if you can get an instructor to help you through your issues together
Kx

 

[Circe]

I meant 'fit of the saddle' but i cant type ! Lol.
Kx

 

[ABC]

Do you have another horse that you can lead him out on, to get him used to the idea of someone above him.
To be honest some horses get a bad experience when being backed and never really get over it, but it is strange that he lets you put a pad on the note in the same day. Have you never ridden him successfully?
Did you try him when you bought him, if so why not?
If he was ok, did you get a blood test and a five star vetting?
did you buy him from a local sales?

I have ridden him successfully on many occaissions. After his back hurt him he wont be ridden. I don't know if his back is still hurting him/his saddle doesnt fit or he assosiciates being ridden with pain.
Didn't get a blood test, he was fine for months after I bought him so I know he wasnt doped or anything like that.
On the ground he is the most well mannered horse. He doesnt get completely spoilt, but I do like to praise him when he is good.
I cant lead him from another horse, though I wish I could, that would have been a great idea.

I think I might get an instructor out for an hour. She'll be able to see the saddle fit, and judge whether it fits, and she'll also be able to see how I handle him on the ground.

He is such a talented horse, he is perfect on the ground, I just wish he'd let me on!

 

[Kaylum]

Good idea to get the saddle checked, if its moving or pinching it can really hurt the horse and it looks as though the horse is in pain when you get on. Youngsters change shape obviously so I think thats your next port of call.

The problem I have found with saddler fitters is they arent back people. Also have a look what you put under your saddle. Some saddler fitters try and fit them without something underneath them but they should alway make allowances for saddle cloths.

Good luck.

 

[ABC]

Thanks

Next question, anyone recommend a good saddle fitter in Lancashire?

I've decided: saddle check. vet check (needs his teeth doing). and then if we get the all clear, serious re-schooling

 

[Kaylum]

Good for you as you can see positiveness in this situation.

Maybe put up a new post regarding the saddle fitter in your area and with your question in the subject. You might get a better response.

 

[ABC]

Thanks Kaylum, I don't have much choice though I either crack on with it, or I sell him, which is not what I want

Will put up a new post later

 

[Debz87]

When I bought my youngster I used a treeless saddle until i could find a saddle that definetly fit, when I found the saddle for us both he went ok but never seemed quite right and would sometimes be resistant.
I had him checked by 2 chiropractors and he wouldn't let one anywhere near him so there was obviously a problem, she told me to give him 2 months off then we would try again.
So we tried after 2 months of absolutely no work and he still wasn't any better and she couldn't get near him.
I tried another chiropractor and he touched my horses back around the trapezium muscles which is where the saddle sits either side just behind the wither and he went mad, non of the other chiroractors had found this!
So this guy worked on my horses whole nervous system, it was really interesting to watch and although my horse wasn't keen it had to be done and everytime this guy released his nerves my horse realised he was doing him good and instantly relaxed.
The muscles had deep damage due to when my horse was sent away to be backed, the saddle used was too narrow for him, which also explains why he was spooky when i tried him at the trainers yard.
I know have to massage the area before and after to loosen up the muscle and my horse really likes this.
So maybe worth just touching your horse in this area to check all is ok, you will know instantly if it's not!
If all is ok then he has probably got used to getting out of work now from acting up so you should try and make it the easier option for him to let you get on rather than mess about.
You must make sure he is pain free first, but if he is then walk him to the block, don't get on from the ground. And just expect him to stand there quietly, if he doesn't and walks into you get him out of your space and walk straight back to the block, if your horse moves as soon as you get there keep making him move his feet for a minute or so then try and stand him back at the block and just aim for him to stand there.
Don't get on straightaway, keep doing this, maybe over the course of a few days and then gradually start making it seem as though you are going to get on, always using the same methods if your horse wanders off.
When i say make your horse walk around I mean difficult stuff like turning on his quarters or on the forehand and lateral movements as its hard work for him and he will learn that standing still is an easier option and hopefully associate this with you getting on in time, but make sure you have plenty of time to do this and finish on a good note.

hope that helps x

 

[welshied]

If hes doing it as soon as you get on hes possibly just getting you off as he may think if you stay on the pain may come again i would get all the checks done and then see if there anyone that can maybe work with him and you at your yard

 

[texansunrise]

Id be tempted to get the vet and or the physio out again for follow up.
You say your not convinced about the git of the saddle ?
The fact he was going nicely enough for you to consider taking him to some comps, then suddenly hes behaving out of character makes me think hes got or has had pain.
If you are sure that physically hes fine, maybe see if you can get an instructor to help you through your issues together
Kx

this is realy good advice...you are doing really well, i would focus on letting him trust you and working on your relationship..i like the idea of grooming when standing on a bale !! Take it from me, who has been down this road and come out the over side..take you time - no matter how much you need...use your gut instinct ...a good instructor can work wonders - but make sure they are the right one for you and your horse...dont worry ,4 is really young..you have all the time in the world...and get that saddle checked etxc again just for your peace of mind ..bestest of luck x x x

 

[JessandCharlie]

One quick thing re polypad; if the saddle fits, and this has been confirmed, don't put anything other than a thin numnah under unless advised by the saddler. It may seem to make it nice and soft, but it's a bit like having a nicely fitting pair of shoes and then sticking a couple of pairs of thick wooly socks on with them; they will be too tight It may only make a little difference, but you don't want to give him any reason not to want to work

Good luck with him

J&C