Help needed with unidentified illness...

martyfisch

martyfisch

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12.1hh 13 year highland pony gelding, has over the last two weeks dropped condition (score gone from 3 to a borderline 0), off his feed, eating and drinking very small amounts and is passing some waste. Doesn't eat hard feed and hay is a potential choking/ colic hazard as he doesn't really chew it before swallowing. Any ideas as to what the problem could be? He is at an experienced yard and has been seen by the vet, had blood samples taken, however these showed no anomalies; a urine sample hasn't been taken as of yet, however is being organised. His urine is a think cloudy yellow, normally clear, urineates about 1 time a day currently, went 3 days without passing urine in the first week. Still very active and not showing other signs of health problems.
 
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12.1hh 13 year highland pony gelding, has over the last two weeks dropped condition (score gone from 3 to a borderline 0), off his feed, eating and drinking very small amounts and is passing some waste. Doesn't eat hard feed and hay is a potential choking/ colic hazard as he doesn't really chew it before swallowing. Any ideas as to what the problem could be? He is at an experienced yard and has been seen by the vet, had blood samples taken, however these showed no anomalies; a urine sample hasn't been taken as of yet, however is being organised. His urine is a think cloudy yellow, normally clear, urineates about 1 time a day currently, went 3 days without passing urine in the first week. Still very active and not showing other signs of health problems.

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Has the vet gagged his mouth open and done a good examination.

Its just that this sounds very like what happened to a horse of mine years ago. Turned out he had a stick (large twig) stuck across his back teeth so he couldn't eat.

Sadly, it wasn't found until after he was pts on welfare grounds
 
He is fine eating succulents (mostly carrots) so he is able to chew comfortably, however he hasn't had his mouth inspected in the manner you've suggested; it didn't seem necessary at the time as he was able to eat, just had no appetite or intention to eat.
 
teeth, worms, grass sickness, foreign body e.g. partial oesophageal obstuction, cranial nerve damage (involved with chewing/swallowing), tumour...the list is kind endless without further investigation. Hopefully he'll get diagnosed and pick up soon, he doesn't sound very happy atm.
 
Thanks, that's really helpful
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of all the things mentioned it might just be cranial nerve damage; he lives in, so it shouldn't be grass sickness, however that warrants investigation. He is wormed regularly and his teeth have been checked recently. Again thanks, you've provided lots of food for thought.
 
Masseter muscle myopathy?
Sound like he is not drinking as much as his urine is more concentrated, reccommend you monitor exactly how much he drinks very carefully as he is at real risk of getting de-hydrated.
 
Hi Fisch
I am writing this to you because I am a vet and v concerned. A better way to test if dehydrated is a skin blanch test - if you pinch the end of one of your fingers when you let go it is initially white and the goes pink again in about one second. You can do this test on a horses gums to test hydration status. Press on the gum with you finger for a couple of seconds then let go and the white blanched area should turn pink again in 1-2 seconds. If it takes longer than two seconds the horse is significantly dehyrated. Longer than 3 seconds and the horse needs supplementing with fluids. If you have significant skin tent it is likely it will be more than 3s and an EMERGENCY. Left like this for more than 12 hours ie over night and he could become life threateningly dehydrated. If this is the case now I suggest you call your vet ASAP. Is he on any pain relief? PM me if you need to.
 
He is drinking but not much; around half a litre a day as an estimate. His skin returned to normal about 3 seconds after pinching and his TPR is regular also. Blanche tests haven't been tried yet but will be in the morning; I'm not at the yard, so I can't test now
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I have tried flavouring his water with limited results, is there anything else you could suggest that would encourage him to drink?
 
For me that skin tent is too slow. Salt in the water sometimes helps, 1 flat dessert spoon per litre of water, no more or you will increase dehydration. Monitor heart rate also - sounds like you know but should be less than 40 beats per minute. Heart rate will increase if he becomes hypovolaemic (water lost from blood stream) so if below 40 he is ok for now. If he is really only drinking half a litre a day he needs to be in hospital on a drip.
Is he on pain relief - Bute sachets?
 
Thanks, I'll try the salt in the water tomorrow. His heart rate's remained stable throughout the period. I'll moniter his water intake more closely tomorrow and give you more accurate results. As for pain relief, he hasn't recieved any as he hasn't shown any obtuse signs of pain, just a lack of appetite. Thank you, you've been a great help
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Dehydration is your immediate problem (whatever the underlying cause). A dehydrated horse drinks and eats less and less. Can you find an area of ungrazed grass - take him out in hand (preferably when it's raining!) But I suspect he will need to be tubed to get sufficient fluid into him - and if he really is drinking only half a litre a day, this is URGENT!

You say he's been seen by a vet - but is the vet actively treating him?? Just because there is no diagnosis doesn't mean you can't treat the symptoms. Rehydrating is the first step, a good jab of B12 might help as a pick-me-up. Possibly even a steroid jab to encourage appetite! But he NEEDS treatment fast or it will be debilitation that kills him, not his underlying problem!
 
Good plan - measure the water exactly. Your vet has seen the horse so will always no best but in a case like this, with no known diagnosis, I would be giving a high dose of pain relief because most of the reasons listed above will stop eating as it is painful to chew for some reason. Further argument for my cause is that you are hardly likely to do any damage. I have to admit I would expect his heart rate to be elevated if he was in pain so there is argument not to.
Please let us know how he gets on.
Good luck
 
I forgot to say use "Lo salt" if you have it otherwise normal salt. Also everything Janet sais is correct and we cannot stress it strongly enough.
 
Given that B12 would help, do you think that folic acid would be a plausible route, as this is water soluble and can be added alongside salt without negative effect? The vet hasn't given him anything, however has advised me what to look out for and will be returning within the week for a check up.
 
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Given that B12 would help, do you think that folic acid would be a plausible route, as this is water soluble and can be added alongside salt without negative effect? The vet hasn't given him anything, however has advised me what to look out for and will be returning within the week for a check up.

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Certainly wouldn't do any harm - although its properties are not exactly the same as B12. However, I'm somewhat disturbed that your vet thinks this pony can go without active treatment for up to a week! Does he KNOW how little it is drinking? And that it's continuing to lose weight?

From your description of this pony's condition, and the amount he is drinking, I would frankly be surprised if he's not on the floor in 2-3 days. Dehydration is a killer and if the pony is drinking under a litre of water a day when he should be drinking at LEAST 4-6 gallons he will go downhill very quickly!
 
I would like to thank everyone who has helped with this, i have solved the drinking problem's and now he is starting to eat some hay from hand but i dare not leave him with any, i dont want to add choke to my list of problems, what i have done is at 6ish am before morning yards i added some plain table salt to a small amount of water to see if he would drink it, and he drank it down, so far so good, then tried some red food dye in a similer small drink (has Pseudomonas Denitrificans in, the micro-bacteria that can create b12 in a water solution) then tried a 3rd with both in with similer results, so i added them both to his water and when i finsihed morning yards i went to check his water and about 80% of it was drunk (using 2.3 gallon containers), so now i have to limit the water so he dosnt bolt it, and he has started to eat hay but not hard feed yet, so im making headway
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special thanks to Sam22 and JanetGeorge for there support, i was getting very worried, with that part solved now i can work on why he had such a rapid reduction in condition and his thick cloudy bright yellow urine (allthough so far im still on the lines of a build up of calcium carbonate crystals as the blood tests showed nothing wrong with his kidneys) i will keep you all updated as the day go's on.
 
Thankgoodness he's drinking now, and good on you for being so persistent. Unlike other species horses loose protein in their urine which makes it clouy so cloudy, yellow urine is normal, it may have appeared so dramtically different from previously becuase he wasn't drinking so it was more concentracted. Hopefully now he's drinking it will look more dilute again. I hope you can work out what is wrong with him soon. If you want to leave him some fibre that he can eat over night what I reccomend for veterans with no teeth is soaked grass nuts. 100% fibre so you can soak them for a few hours until they are all crumbly then the horse can eat them without chewing.
 
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