Help - new treeless saddle causing problems

[Anniep]

Following extensive research and saving for many months I finally bought a Torsion Treeless saddle and Equitex saddle pad for Fly - 15.1 Arab x Welsh D. His weight fluctuates a fair bit (like mine!) and a treeless seemed the best option.

For the first half hour of using it Fly seemed fine but soon began to show signs of distress. He kept turning his head as though to bite at the girth area, pawed at the ground and tried to kick at his belly. After checking and loosening the girth I tried again. Same reaction with additional side stepping, napping and then bucking - he has never bucked. I led Fly home. Torsion were helpful and advised that the wide moon-shaped girth might be causing a problem and supplied me with a neoprene girth.

I have used the saddle 4 times for up to an hour and the situation doesn't seem to be improving. Yesterday he moved away when I tried to put his saddle on and he bit me when I did the girth - absolutely unheard of. For the first 20 minutes of gentle walk and trot he seemed fine but soon began to prance and jog sideways. I attempted to canter but he bucked 4 or 5 times - not sure how I managed to stay on! Heading homewards it was impossible to walk him in a straight line - he jogged sideways, first one way and then the other, he kept putting his head down as though to buck. I dismounted and led him home.

I bought this saddle because I wanted my boy to be as comfortable as possible and had heard so many positive reports on treeless saddles. In fact I have never heard of anyone having this sort of reaction before. Fly is a spooky horse that needs lots of reassurance but has never responded badly to any change in tack. He is used to being ridden bareback and has always seemed happy with the close contact. From my point of view the saddle is the most comfortable riding experience I have ever had but it's not me that matters here. Tomorrow I'm going to put his old Wintec back on him to see if he is back to his old self.

Has anyone had or heard of this sort of reaction to treeless saddles? Can anyone out there advise me? It looks like I might have to part company with my Torsion - hopefully via Ebay rather than by being bucked off!

Sorry this is so long-winded but I wanted to get as much detail in without boring you to tears.

 

[Tempi]

have you tried lunging him in it to get him more used to it? it must feel odd to him, especially with you on it aswell. if he was happy in his wintec then why didnt you just stick with that? you can get ones where you can change the gullet if he changes shape alot.

 

[Bossanova]

Hate the d*mn things. I dont think they sit well, I'd stick him back in his old saddle

 

[Anniep]

I haven't tried lunging him in it yet - I only have my paddock and the ground is a bit wet and boggy.

I have changed the gullet in my Wintec several times but I'm concerned that I might not be best qualified to get this right.

Perhaps I just worry too much!

 

[LEC]

Try this website they are probably more aufait with treeless saddles and be better able to offer advice.
http://ihdg.proboards91.com/

 

[Happytohack]

Have pm'd you.

 

[Anniep]

Thanks lec - i'll give it a try

 

[SummerStorm]

I'd go back to your old saddle - I'm with Boss on this one; I hate them too sorry...

 

[wizzi901]

Have to say I hate them too! I feel that saddles were originally designed with a gullet for a reason, ie to keep weight off the spine....I know treeless have their uses but all of mine would probably buck like mules if I put weight on that area now...the horse is a creature of habit to some extent....if fly isnt happy I would stick to wintec and use nice polypad and comfy girth.

 

[Tierra]

Treeless saddles are an interesting idea and certainly adored by many users. That being said, I've read numerous reports, similar to yours and my personal opinion is that they just don't suit all horses. They seem to be fabulous for some and I know of a case recently where changing to a treeless saddle seems to have solved multiple behavioural and physiological problems for a young horse that nothing else seemed able to fix. Equally, some horses just plain don't like them.

I looked at them for a while when I was searching for a new saddle for my odd shaped boy but for me, they would have been the "last resort" option to try. Thankfully, the nice people at frst thought equine sorted me with a wow and Ive had zero problems since.

The few people I know who do own treeless saddles all advise that people try and get them on a decent trial period before parting with the full purchase price because of reports like yours

Sadly, I agree with the other posters here... I think there are few cases where a well fitted treed saddle won't solve the majority of issues. You're doing the right thing trying him in the Wintec again... keep us updated

 

[JaneMBE]

FLY BIT YOU???
Blimey, that's a first! I am shocked.
Dunno what to say about your treeless except it did look nice

still shocked he bit you........

 

[Bex7]

no advise on the saddle but hello *waves*

 

[Cobnut1]

I have a treeless, though not a torsion.... have you checked the padding in the saddle? sounds like the fit isn't to good on him and may need adjusting, maynot just be the girth... what does he do when you just sit the saddle on his back? (no girth) is he ok then or is it with the girth that you have probs?

these people who say they HATE treeless saddles...have you ever tried them? what reason do you have to hate them?

The torsion may not tbe the tirght type of treeless saddle, please don't be put off by the idea, there are other treelesses to consider.

 

[Anniep]

Thanks for your advice. It's funny how I only seemed to notice really positive comments about treeless saddles when I was looking at buying one. Now I've got one I'm becoming aware of a range of problems people/horses have experienced.

I did try another make of treeless saddle a couple of times before I bought one - only for about 10 minutes each time though. Everything seemed fine. Fly's reaction to the Torsion gets worse the longer I ride him, starting after about 20 minutes or so. He's not a happy boy and I guess he's trying to let me know by whatever means he can.

Back to good old Wintec tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Yes lil' sis - HE BIT ME!

 

[Skhosu]

Sounds like a good idea, because it sounds (bucking, nipping) like there is something causing pain/pressure somewhere!
Hopefully you can take the treeless back?

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Hate the d*mn things. I dont think they sit well, I'd stick him back in his old saddle

[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same about all treeless saddles ?

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to say I hate them too! I feel that saddles were originally designed with a gullet for a reason, ie to keep weight off the spine....

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know much (if anything!) about treeless saddles, but don't some of them have a gullet?

 

[Bossanova]

I havent ridden in all the different types but I have in a torsion and they're supposed to be about the best make.

 

[PapaFrita]

Oh are they? what don't you like about them? (again, just curious!) I would imagine they would feel a bit strange for jumping? Does the fact that they don't have a tree make them prone more to slipping?

 

[Cobnut1]

my treeless has a "gullet" it's a Solution saddle, has two foam panels, and a twist to stop the saddle from sliding aound on Mr Chunky!! it really does work and makes a huge difference to him. Tried a friends Barefoot cheyenne on, and it was terrrible, slid about, and make me feel perched on him....but is worth remembering that not all saddles treeless or otherwise are the same or have the same comfyness.

Perhaps if AnnieP goes back to the Wintec and continues to experience problems she should then get the back checked? which may or maynot have caused problems with the change over in saddles..

Also trying the different saddles for 10mins does not help the horse realise the difference straight away.

PinkFixation... "Does the fact that they don't have a tree make them prone more to slipping? " No, as my horse's tree'd saddle was a nightmare for slipping, until we got him the Freestyle Solution Saddle....no more slippage!!

 

[Cobnut1]

AnnieP - What made you go for the torsion above all other treelesses?

 

[Anniep]

I went for Torsion because I had heard such good reports on them. I had been looking into it for some time and these seemed to be the most popular overall - and I liked the way they looked.

I agree that 10 minute bursts of testing isn't really long enough to get a clear idea of how suitable a saddle will be - easy for me to say in hind sight! I guess I just didn't expect to have problems - thick or what?

 

[Marnie]

I have a Barefoot Cheyenne which I and my horse love. I did have some problems over the summer - my own fault, I didn't have the proper saddle pad and used a polypad which caused a pressure sore on her back. That has all healed, I now have the proper saddle pad and have not had similar problems. My mare is a lot more free through her shoulders in the treeless than in her other (professionally fitted) saddle. There are a few people in our yard who feel the same, but there are also one or two who have tried them and had problems - I think it very much depends on the horse and rider as with any saddle.

 

[JaneMBE]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I just didn't expect to have problems - thick or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a Walker thing.... impulsive and blonde.....

 

[Anniep]

Blonde? I wish! Highlights are growing out and shades of 'mouse' are taking over. Impulsive? Yep! Lol xx

 

[pottamus]

I am a firm believer in the horse telling you when something is not right. I would be putting your other saddle back on immediately and if your horse is fine with that and does not react negatively...there's your answer. I hope it works out for you...I have a Welsh D who changes shape a fair bit...particularly around the shoulder area...I use a Thorowgood Cob saddle with good effect.

 

[mrdarcy]

Not all treeless saddles are evil! See the Heather Moffatt Fhoenix saddle thread for my report on my new saddle. Fhoenix saddles do have a gullet but it's more for stability than clearing the spine. If there's no hard tree then spine cleareance isn't an issue.

Just a thought but some horses are allergic to neoprene - so any girths made of the stuff can send them potty.

My Arab has been ridden in a Torison in the past but over the longer distances he used to compete in it didn't work. He certainly seems happy in the Fhoenix.

Some horses will suit treeless, others not. The Fhoenix seems to have the best of both worlds.

If you can't take the Torison back and get a refund then you'll have no problem selling it on ebay - people snap them up like hot cakes.