Help, our Weimaraner doesn't like small children

[Teign]

Desperate for help. We have a 9 year old weim that we've had from a puppy. He's always been nervous around small children but as we didn't have any contact with small children, hasn't been a problem. Now , however, we have a two year old grandson who lives next door and who is here every day. Last week Blue nipped him on the arm for no apparent reason, ( I had my back to them, just a few feet away) .without looking to apportion blame, we have an untenable position. We can't risk him doing it again, yet in every other way he is a loyal beautiful dog, in great condition. Is there anyone out there experienced with these dogs , without small children, who could take him? We love him dearly, but we have to make the correct decision for him and our grandson.
We are in Devon.

 

[Moomin1]

Any dog that bites a child should be pts IMO. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but if it was me I would do the best thing by your dog too, as passing on a dog who is dodgy around kids is a recipe for disaster, particularly when it's only known one home for 9yrs.

 

[Sandstone1]

Poor dog. You clearly know he's not good with kids but now you are putting him in a situation he's not used to.
Never turn your back on a dog with children.

 

[meesha]

My mum used to occasionally look after my collie and my neices, if they were ever in the house together mum was under strict instruction to shut dog in kitchen, lock door and importantly remove key so no-one could open unintentionally, my dog had never bitten anyone but was a grumpy thing. I would contact breed specific resue if there is one or do as my mum did and maybe muzzle as well so belt and braces. I would also make sure fencing between houses high enough to stop dog getting over to child. Alternatively when child comes to you could dog go next door?

 

[moppett]

Any dog that bites a child should be pts IMO. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but if it was me I would do the best thing by your dog too, as passing on a dog who is dodgy around kids is a recipe for disaster, particularly when it's only known one home for 9yrs.

Moomin I disagree! One of my rescue Ibizan hounds arrived in a terrible state - he was very nervous just like his brother. But he showed particular anxiety about small children. his brother would just put as much distance as possible between him and the child and just go to his crate but Joey would stick close to me or the situation and show every fear and stress sign possible and one day (when I knew a lot less about dogs than i do now) my nephew ran his toy car along the ground directly towards him and Joey looked petrified and mouthed/nipped his arm. No teeth were involved but a bruise was left on his arm.

A lot of training and time has given him the tools to deal with it. I will never trust him around dogs but he will go to his crate voluntarily and remove himself from a situation - but because I will never trust him I have to manage the situation 100% - on a walk I'll recall him if I see children, he's crated when friends children come round etc. The training has meant he'd likely be fine not crated when children are around but the worst case scenario is unimaginable so I could never take the risk!

Why should I have had him destroyed in this situation?

 

[MissTyc]

The nip was likely to be a warning: go away, leave me alone.
You are right to listen to that warning.

My dog has never nipped a child, however she has never been put into a situation where she might have to. She is a large rescue who can be sharp and so the only time children touch her is outside the house, on a lead and controlled environment. And the only reason we practised that is because local kid run up to her on the street, so we knew she had to learn to ignore that type of attentions. On lead she is very attentive and obedient. In the house, however I would never put her in a position where children could approach her unsupervised. When friends with children visit us, the dog gets locked into a room (locked with a key, not just behind the door) with her favourite kong. In fact when she sees/hears kids outside she wags her tail and runs to her room because she thinks she's getting a peanut butter kong. She'd probably be totally fine with them, but it's my responsibility to keep her (the dog!) safe.

If you do rehome you will need to make the situation crystal clear.

 

[Teaselmeg]

I would find a good behaviourist to come in and see the situation, this is a good place to look for someone near you:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions

In the meantime, give your dog his own space when your grandson is visiting, maybe allocate a room and put a stairgate across the door so he can see you but your grandson cannot go in there. You have had him for 9 years and he has now nipped a child, it is unlikely that most rescues will take him on. The most important thing is to find ways to keep them both safe and get some professional help.

 

[Clodagh]

If he was close enough to nip it was also close enough for your grandson to have poked him, or something. Neither are in the wrong it is just a very difficult situation. I agree with the 100% seperate thing, it will get easier as your grandson gets older. Very frightening for you.

 

[Moomin1]

Moomin I disagree! One of my rescue Ibizan hounds arrived in a terrible state - he was very nervous just like his brother. But he showed particular anxiety about small children. his brother would just put as much distance as possible between him and the child and just go to his crate but Joey would stick close to me or the situation and show every fear and stress sign possible and one day (when I knew a lot less about dogs than i do now) my nephew ran his toy car along the ground directly towards him and Joey looked petrified and mouthed/nipped his arm. No teeth were involved but a bruise was left on his arm.

A lot of training and time has given him the tools to deal with it. I will never trust him around dogs but he will go to his crate voluntarily and remove himself from a situation - but because I will never trust him I have to manage the situation 100% - on a walk I'll recall him if I see children, he's crated when friends children come round etc. The training has meant he'd likely be fine not crated when children are around but the worst case scenario is unimaginable so I could never take the risk!

Why should I have had him destroyed in this situation?

I'm sorry but you cannot 100% rely on recall to be fail safe, and any dog that is dodgy around kids should not be off the lead full stop if in a public place, particularly around kids.

With regard the training - that's great that you have had the time and expertise to do so. However this dog is 9 years old, has only ever known one family, and has nipped a kid (I'm not saying this is the dog's fault, or the kid's fault). I don't think it's remotely fair, or sensible to be rehoming this dog.

If OP can keep the dog, but ensure that it does not come into contact with the kids, that would be the best scenario alround IMO. But it sounds as if that may not be an option, in which case I fully stand by what I said about pts.

 

[Moomin1]

Moomin I disagree! One of my rescue Ibizan hounds arrived in a terrible state - he was very nervous just like his brother. But he showed particular anxiety about small children. his brother would just put as much distance as possible between him and the child and just go to his crate but Joey would stick close to me or the situation and show every fear and stress sign possible and one day (when I knew a lot less about dogs than i do now) my nephew ran his toy car along the ground directly towards him and Joey looked petrified and mouthed/nipped his arm. No teeth were involved but a bruise was left on his arm.

A lot of training and time has given him the tools to deal with it. I will never trust him around dogs but he will go to his crate voluntarily and remove himself from a situation - but because I will never trust him I have to manage the situation 100% - on a walk I'll recall him if I see children, he's crated when friends children come round etc. The training has meant he'd likely be fine not crated when children are around but the worst case scenario is unimaginable so I could never take the risk!

Why should I have had him destroyed in this situation?

Deleted

 

[CorvusCorax]

He's an old dog (in terms of age, not how fit you perceive him to be) and it would be unfair to move him on. However you cannot risk your grandchild. If you think that you can manage this safely and competently, without putting the child at risk, or if you think putting the dog under so much control that you would be stressing the dog and having you living on your nerve for the next time it happened, then put to sleep.

For him, in his head, his world has probably turned upside down with this strange new person in his house, making erratic movements and weird noises. Some dogs like kids, some don't.
Some dogs don't like crowds, or getting their feet wet, or being touched on the head, or certain floor surfaces.
He nipped your grandkid, which as someone said, means 'go away'.
A 'prey' bite could have been something much worse.

Hope you find the best solution for your family (including the dog).

 

[AmyMay]

My uncle has a collie who can be a bit suspect around kids. He simply keeps the 'smallies' and dog separate in the home.

Interestingly there are no issues with the dog outside the home, and he can happily be walked and played with by my six year old neicem who just adores him.

 

[LittleMonster]

Keep the dog away from the child when he comes over??

 

[Saneta]

Have you tried Weimeraner Rescue to see if they have anyone looking for an older dog, and no children in the family? In the meantime, obviously never leave your dog unattended if there are children present. I was wondering whether muzzling the dog when the grandchild is visiting, but think this might give the dog bad associations.,.a difficult dilemma for you...

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

We rehomed a Beagle dog who had nipped his owner's young son so she was in the same unfortunate position as you. He's a bit of a grumpy so and so but OH's 5 year old nephew is often up the stables and loves playing with him - he's never once even growled at him and seems happier in a more outdoors environment. I'm not sure whether it was the closeness of being in a room with a child that initially caused him to react like that (please note, we never leave OH's nephew unattended with any of our dogs as we have also have another Beagle and two Weims).

I'm sorry for the position you're in and can understand your need to find a new home for your dog. Hopefully something suitable comes up.

 

[Teign]

Thanks for all your suggestions. The situation is unchanged, but I have contacted Weimaraner rescue and maybe I'll hear from them. We have borrowed a stair gate and he's being kept downstairs ( our house is upside down)
I would personally be happier if we found him a good home, but we are managing the situation for now.

 

[ester]

It seems a bit unfair on the dog to rehome him at his age because of a nip that occurred with a small child when no one was actively watching them together when you knew he was nervous around small children and isn't used to having to deal with them . I don't see the problem with keeping them separate/closely supervised/doing some work to help the dog be less nervous.

 

[honetpot]

I feel so sorry for this dog, you knew he was anxious around children and yet you put him in a position where he was able to do this. When I had my children I had two large dogs, from the day the baby was brought home from hospital the dogs were never left in a situation where they could fail, this even went on when as the children grew up, no dog should be left with unsupervised with children and its the adults responsibility to monitor the situation at all times and not rely on the good nature of the dog. The dog is now going to suffer from your inattention, either by having to move home or losing its life. If you can not work out a system where he has a safe place where your grandchild or any other children can not get to him best thing is to rehome him.

 

[Teign]

Well, ester,
It's not quite as simple as that. Blue has seen our grandson every day since he was born, and he seemed to be accepting him , and took himself out of the way. I was literally 2 or 3 feet away from them and had just turned round when it happened.he bit him through his shirt, and left a circular bite imprint with bruising.
I don't know if my grandson provoked him or whether the possibility of food made him aggressive. All I know is that we need to take some sort of action.
Separating them is an option, but I'm worried that there might be an occasion when that fails.

 

[Moomin1]

Well, ester,
It's not quite as simple as that. Blue has seen our grandson every day since he was born, and he seemed to be accepting him , and took himself out of the way. I was literally 2 or 3 feet away from them and had just turned round when it happened.he bit him through his shirt, and left a circular bite imprint with bruising.
I don't know if my grandson provoked him or whether the possibility of food made him aggressive. All I know is that we need to take some sort of action.
Separating them is an option, but I'm worried that there might be an occasion when that fails.

So what's the likelihood of finding a home for him which will guarantee he won't come into any contact with children?

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Poor dog, I just think its horrid that people know about animals issues yet still expose them to triggers. Get the dog PTS if your not willing to make the effort. A stair gate locked makes all the difference and is a small thing to do but it sounds by your second post that you have decided to make the dog someone else's problem rather than take responsibility yourself.

 

[Teign]

It's easy to be judgmental and sanctimonious when you can't possibly know the exact situation . Blue can open doors and is very persistent in getting to where he wants. I repeat, I was in the room, I had just turned around, thats how fast it happened. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of course I feel terrible. You make it sound as if we are deliberately negligent, yes we knew Blue was uneasy around children, but those occasions were one off incidents with friends children and we have our grandson every day and blue was used to him.
I just came on to this forum asking if anyone knew of someone who could possibly take him, to actually perhaps relieve the stress caused by separating him.
I didn't know we were going to have a grandson living next door to us..but we do, and we are obviously going to put him first.

So, Black Beastie, you obviously seem to know all about our situation . A stair gate, yes, but if he wanted to he could jump it. If we put him on his own he will get very stressed as he has been used to being with us. Muzzling will make him stressed. You make it sound as if I deliberately contrived to have a grandson come and live next door to upset our DOG.
How on earth can it be supposed that I deliberately 'exposed' him to triggers ? As I said in my initial post, we had been aware that he didn't like small children, but the issue hadn't arisen until now, as we are responsible dog owners so kept him away when children very rarely visited.( about 4 times in the last few years) but this is a radical change to our family set up, one which we cannot change! Not all dog behaviour is the total fault of the owner, they also develop behaviours that are unpredictable. One second was all it took.

 

[MrsElle]

Have PM'd.

 

[Moomin1]

It's easy to be judgmental and sanctimonious when you can't possibly know the exact situation . Blue can open doors and is very persistent in getting to where he wants. I repeat, I was in the room, I had just turned around, thats how fast it happened. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of course I feel terrible. You make it sound as if we are deliberately negligent, yes we knew Blue was uneasy around children, but those occasions were one off incidents with friends children and we have our grandson every day and blue was used to him.
I just came on to this forum asking if anyone knew of someone who could possibly take him, to actually perhaps relieve the stress caused by separating him.
I didn't know we were going to have a grandson living next door to us..but we do, and we are obviously going to put him first.

I'm certainly not judging.

However, I really would not be rehoming a 9 year old dog who has bitten a child. For starters, it's not fair on the dog who has only ever known one environment, and secondly you cannot guarantee he won't come into contact with kids in a new home or elsewhere, and end up doing much worse. He will be in an alien environment, trying to readjust to a whole new life, stressed, and if it were me, it wouldn't be ethical to put him in that situation, or risk a kids safety.

 

[Teign]

So, what you are saying is that we should have him pts? Because if someone else could be at risk then so are we I guess? Which were our first thoughts I must admit.I'm just trying to save him from that..maybe I shouldn't ?

 

[TrasaM]

Have you tried a specialist breed rehoming group? I've got a GSP and it's not unusual to see older dogs up for rehoming .. There will be lots off Weimy fanciers about who know the breed and who can perhaps offer him a home. It's not as if he's savaged anyone..he nipped to say he was uncomfortable and I can understand why you don't want to take the risk of it happening again. Best of luck with what must be a very unhappy decision for you to have to make.

 

[Apercrumbie]

You say that muzzling him would stress him - have you done some specific training with this to help him? Or tried a couple of different muzzles?

Personally I think this could work but much depends on the child as you will have to 'train' your grandson. If you can get to the stage where your grandson leaves the dog completely alone at all times, the dog is happy in his basket, then you could avoid rehoming/pts.

 

[Teign]

You say that muzzling him would stress him - have you done some specific training with this to help him? Or tried a couple of different muzzles?

Personally I think this could work but much depends on the child as you will have to 'train' your grandson. If you can get to the stage where your grandson leaves the dog completely alone at all times, the dog is happy in his basket, then you could avoid rehoming/pts.

This only happened a week ago so we're still thinking about it all. Our grandson is just 24 months, and it's like herding cats to moderate his behaviour, although he's pretty scared of the dog now..

 

[hayley.t]

I don't think people are saying thatthe dog will be a big risk to others but with rescues the way that they are a older dog with a possible problem really isn't going to be at the top of the list to be rehomed. I really don't think it would be fair to this dog and turn his life upside down when you are the only family he has known. Personally I would try anything to keep my dog but you do sound as if you have already made your mind up. You have said that it happened quite recently and are writing off people's suggestions but is there no way that you could train the dog to be happy in a confined area, perhaps a spare room or a run in the garden. You could give him kongs and toys and make it his room, leave a radio on etc. Start as you would a small puppy with short times and build it up. Why not give it a go with a good behaviourist, your vet will be able to recommend one.

Eta- as the child isn't there all the time the confinement will not be all the time and I could see more of a problem if the child was there constantly but it is only for periods of a day. You say that the dog will not like being alone but if you rehome he may go to someone who works or not be able to be with them all day so he is going to have to make adjustments anyway and retrained by someone.
Sorry for massive essay!

 

[mystiandsunny]

My first thought was a basket muzzle (with the appropriate training to get the dog used to it - you can't just put it on and expect them to be fine), and some training for the child and dog. For the child - don't touch Blue, he doesn't like it. For the dog - if you're not happy, here is your place you can go and I WILL protect you from the child. So if Blue can jump child gates for example, his bed could be the other side of one (and therefore safe from the toddler).

I have a two year old child and am regularly round my friend's house where she has several dogs. One of them finds children very stressful. Since my son was tiny, we've taught him not to touch/grab ANY dog (including my small terrier) because it's not fair on them. In addition, he knows to leave this specific dog well alone (think not going anywhere near him) - just the same way he knows he's not allowed to touch the cooker/open the kitchen cupboards etc. Her dog isn't stressed around my toddler, because he knows he'll leave him alone, and that if he goes too near, I/friend will grab the child and tell him off. Her dog has never bitten but that doesn't mean it's inconceivable that he would. He's a sweet soul and doesn't deserve to be put in a position where he feels threatened enough to need to.

My son can give my dog a quick kiss or a gentle stroke under supervision, but that's it - toddlers can be unintentionally rough.

Just to add also - solution to dog that can open doors = round door handles, or a full sized gate with bungee cords affixed to the wall and attached to the gate to keep it shut. My friend has the latter arrangement and if her dogs haven't been walked yet or my son is a bit hyper, we chat in the kitchen instead, away from the dogs!!