Help please... dangly legs and crappy rider

[Ginn]

So today the jumps came out again, probably for the last time this side of Easter as the fields are being re-seeded.

Brave pants were on and ground was perfect so cameraman (aka mother) was armed with a camera and out we went.

Well firstly I think its fair to say that if she didn't have a sack of spuds, useless, bimbling idiot on her back then she would have gone much better and probably achieved more. However bimbling idiot who can't ride for toffee it was and while I couldn't be more pleased with her I would quite like someone to come and shoot me now!!!

So some advice please, firstly on me... I am so aware that I mustn't gob her and must give her the freedom to move underneath me that I am ending up with my hands around her ears and consequently am over folding. I'm also aware that I am so neurotic about "forward, forwards, forwards" that I am not collecting and 'bouncing' her trot/canter on the approach to the fence and therefore doing absolutely nothing to help her out - I don't go fast, infact speed wise we're probably fine, but there is no togetherness about her trot or canter because I don't want her to think I'm not committed to getting to the otherside (she would, I'm sure, jump the moon for me if I asked but I have to be 100% with her).

Add to this the fact that since we were last regularly jumping (wellllll over a year ago!) she has become the queen of dangly legs and you can see how my inability to ride is not doing her any good!! So second lot of advice is in respect to this

So some help please (and yes, we do have plans to see a regular instructor but are waiting for towbar to be fitted)... CC away and any tips, exercises etc (or a willing person with a shotgun!) gratefully received!

Lady dangly legs (and yet she left these up and didn't actually touch them)

 

[blood_magik]

just a wee bit of c/c: my instructor doesn't let me jump until my canter is correct so we work on collecting/extending over poles - 5 strides apart, assuming a 12ft canter stride, then we push for 4 and collect for 6, 7 etc. Assuming he's listening to me, i'm then allowed to start jumping

ive been told off for "letting all the steam out the front end" - you can still be forward without dropping your contact and letting all the impulsion go to waste.

I would agree with the comment about over folding the last picture looks a lot better although your hands are still just a wee bit too far forward IMO.

you'r leg position looks great though

nice pony. she looks like she's really trying - i can see the cogs turning in your pics

 

[Ginn]

Thanks. Have been working really hard on the flat (and between fences!) at playing with the canter and yet it all seems to go flat and bleghhhh when it comes to jumping. Have been told to keep it all quiet and calm but I just can't get that balance right

I never used to overfold like that - I have no idea where its come from except that I am very aware that she gets really upset and then looses confidence if you accidently gob her. Having just re-established her confidence and love of jumping I am really worried about knocking it again but then she's going from a nice contact up until takeoff, then I stupidly chuck the reins at her, then on landing and getaway I'm slowly picking her up again - not ideal if I were to jump a course! Again, useless, bimbling idiot making a mess of things

Any tips for getting the rein length right? I know I also open my hands (think *jazz hands* and you wouldn't be far off) as I give just incase she needs more and am very used to slipping my reins but its finding that bit in the middle?? I'm hoping once I stop chucking my hands at my ears I won't be folding as much as I won't need to to reach her ears!

She is a little poppet, we've had some huge highs and lows together and I'm hoping at last its all coming together, slowly!

 

[blood_magik]

I tend to not really give over small jumps - my horse doesn't really bascule over anything smaller than 70cms so if I gave him the reins he would probably fall on his face after the jump or maybe even refuse (cue me landing on the floor).
how much you give depends on your horse and the size of the jump - over a 1.20 fence I would probably be in a similar position to you in the last pic, just to give you an idea.

I can try to find pics if this isn't very clear
if it makes you feel any better, I used to over fold over small jumps. practice practice practice

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

watching this thread with interest as have exact same issue ref over folding.

 

[becca1305]

Don't throw your hands so far forward; this increases the likelihood of you losing stability through your lower leg base, also brings more of your weight over her shoulders making it harder for her to bring her shoulders up and through to jump & inevitably making it more likely you will fall off. (see your jumps over the blue and white cross pole oxer)

Try to sit up, think confident and go with her instead of throwing yourself forward over her. This creates a more stable base, making it easier for her to do her job and putting you in a more stable position if anything goes wrong.

I always tell my students Confidence & Stability are the most important things with a new/green horse.

PS. you dont need to give the reins that much even over huge oxers... have a look at my SJ pic in album if you want reassurance. Thats a 1.35m spread on a horse that had only started jumping 2 months prior ... so dont worry! the best thing you can do for her is sit soft and quiet and feel the movement flow through you

 

[Lolo]

Sister did the same thing with her horse- she was so paranoid about touching his (very soft) mouth she'd overfold and tip him off balance.

She was told to keep her hands soft on the reins and to not fold but let her hands follow his movement- so he'd take as much as he'd want, because her hands were light on the rein. It meant that she couldn't tip on the last stride which helped him take off better, which made folding much easier.

 

[Santa_Claus]

Firstly for her you really need to be working on the quality of her canter. She needs to be bringing the weight back on to her hocks, not necessarily collected canter by any extent but she needs to be off the forehand. Jumping ultimately all comes down to flatwork. Canter poles can help with stride regulation

Secondly you indeed need to stop over folding as you will be unbalancing her which will be contributing to the dangly legs. Over fences up to 1m-1m10 there is really very little need to fold, and when you do you should always be keeping your balance.

The best way I have ever seen to prevent over folding is a simple one but requires a good jumper and an extra pair of hands. Basically lunge lesson over fences with your hands out like you are pretending to be an aeroplane. You soon find your balance

 

[NeverSayNever]

ditto the others who say you dont need to give so much,espec over smaller jumps.My best advice would be to shorted your reins on approach so your hands are carried level with the neck strap and as the horse jumps just allow his/her head to take your hands but keep the contact

 

[Ginn]

Thanks for advice, as I said anyone willing to shoot me is very welcome!! Most irritating thing is I never used to over fold - if anything I would stay too upright and just slip my reins. Other than being neurotically aware of the consequences of gobbing her (flip-top head mid jump, putting down on fence/taking it out completely with hinds, followed by a very upset and "gymnastic" display on landing) I really don't know what's triggered it

I know I am ashamedly out of practice but with the way she pings around my normal default would be to sit up, slip the reins and fly over hunting stylee so this doesn't even fit with the normal lack of confidence wibbles I get??

On the flat canter is now lush, lovely and bouncy and adjustable so why the hell can't I get it sorted on the approach to a fence?!? Maybe I should just stick to dressage

However, I can't take away how proud I am of her, especially as I did absolutely nothing to help her out!

 

[thumpbug]

It's great that you pick up on your own errors and are working on it-well done you!
Pony looks lovely,My SJ TB too suffers from DLS(dangly leg syndrome) Except instead of being a sensible child she flys about 5ft to high and leaves the leg to dangle!
But despite what you pick up on you look great!

 

[pheline]

Most horses prefer having some kind of contact on their mouth to make them feel as though you're still there and in control, giving them more confidence.
I had the same problem a while ago and it is just practise really, and something that helped me is (with your hands) pretend you're pushing a wheel barrow forwards, I don't know why but it helped me get my hands in the right position and also taught me how much to give with my hands. It really worked for me, not sure about anyone else haha, maybe give it a go

Phe x

 

[Ginn]

Pony looks lovely,My SJ TB too suffers from DLS(dangly leg syndrome) Except instead of being a sensible child she flys about 5ft to high and leaves the leg to dangle!
But despite what you pick up on you look great!

Thanks, just wish I could do her justice!! In some ways I wish mine would fly high, instead she is a lazy sod who does the minimum amount possible and has the coordination of a drunk goose (just like her rider really!!!) We'll get there, hopefully... Out of interest how do you improve DLS? Any useful exercises I can pinch?

Most horses prefer having some kind of contact on their mouth to make them feel as though you're still there and in control, giving them more confidence.
I had the same problem a while ago and it is just practise really, and something that helped me is (with your hands) pretend you're pushing a wheel barrow forwards, I don't know why but it helped me get my hands in the right position and also taught me how much to give with my hands. It really worked for me, not sure about anyone else haha, maybe give it a go

Will definately try it - my old style was to sit up and slip the reins but all too often I found I was getting too behind the movement and unbalancing the pair of us once we were getting the landing gear out. The problem with her and the contact is its always been an issue at the best of times... she has the most equisitely sensitive mouth (to the extent that a loose drop is the only noseband I can use that has and action, I can't trim her whiskers and putting cheek pieces of any description on is a total no-no) so I know the worst thing I can do with her is not give enough, so I just feel stuck in this catch 22 where if I don't give enough or catch her she gets incredibly upset but by compensating I am making a total mess of things On other horses I don't seem to have this problem either????

 

[missparis]

I am not too sure if this is a silly suggestion but I use Carl Hester Reins while jumping as I am tiny in height and have a big horse and that is my fear of 'gobbing' him in the mouth. As they are elastic, they have that bit more give in the reins, if you know what I mean? Anyways, my horse goes really nicely in them

 

[thumpbug]

About the DLS,i try to do alot of grid work with her to get her thinking,or scary fillers,if you have a instructor or someone on the ground to help,change your distances through grids ect just to make her think where to put her legs,thats what i try anyways!

 

[Weezy]

You are deffo over thinking the process. As has been said, there is no need to *fold* at all, just follow the movement of your horse. I would whack your stirrups up too so that your knee is in the right place in the saddle, this will help you stop having to reach so much as you will automatically be more *up*. I would also do some canter work in a slightly forward seat, just trot and canter around and around working on your balance to establish your own happy place - when I say this I mean for 10 minutes, not 1 minute, it really will help. Work on adjusting the pace within the pace at the same time, using your body instead of any rein pressure, and this will lead to more confidence within each other coming into a fence.

As for her dangly legs, I wouldn't be over concerned about that ATM. You can work on her once you are happy with you She just isn't giving much effort ATM as she doesn't need to. The technique will come.

 

[Ginn]

Lol Weezy!! Overthinking - nail on head, my brain can't help it But you are right, too much brain, not enough instinct and feel! I do all my canter work (unless part of a schooling exercise) in a forward seat and out hacking almost all trot work too at the moment so much spend atleast 30mins every time I hack like that, often more (and in walk its usually stirrupless). In this respect I feel much more balanced, safe and secure in a forward seat than sat on her back. Shoulders back is still s sneaky issue.... But you get the idea (Dressage length/saddle so a little too tippy for my ideal but you get the idea)

Pic: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=701418002472&set=a.699595469842.2344944.193111649

Between fences I tend to adopt this too, especially if I want to open her up and get her thinking forwards but it tends to be more of a light seat than 2 point if that makes sense:

Pic: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=711307927982&set=a.707055559762.2351096.193111649

Re the stirrups - yes I agree they still need to go up, back in the summer when I was regularly riding in the jump set-up I had them 3 holes shorter than now:

Pic: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=677683506592&set=a.676141806172.2306619.193111649

But having been riding in the dressage saddle for the last 4 months 11 holes is just too much in one step and I didn't feel secure going up that much having not really jumped for 15 months! Hence only going up 8 from my dressage length initially. I have been jacking them up more for hacking but am finding that my ankles and knees are taking a hammering so about 30-45mins at the ideal length is my limit until my joints loosen up.

Thumpbug - unfortunately jumping at home is strictly limited at the moment as the fields are being re-seeded but once we have the go ahead grids will definately be number 1 priority and now we have transport sorted I hope to go for jump lessons with this in mind 1-2 times a month as I agree this is exactly what we need to be doing more of.

Missparis - will definately look in to the CH reins as may be worth a try. Just to give you an idea, I *mildly* caught her on take-off and aswell as me ending up off balance and trying to rectify it the result was not pretty... followed by a major strop on landing! I wonder if the martigale isn't helping either but not sure I fancy the consequences of loosing it!