HELP PLEASE-VERY DIFICULT GELDING IS GETTING WORSE

[McNally]

My gelding is an 8yr old TB- he is highly strung anyway and often a bit much for me really (or at least more "challenging" than i want)
since the mares started coming into season he got 10x worse and is just getting unbearable.
He's no fun to own and my rides consist of very quick circuits round a quiet village because its all i can cope with.
He calls constantly but tries to knap/rear jump around with every call when we are out. when we are within hearing distance of the yard i fear for my life!
Yesterday a mare left the yard and he wacked me into the stable wall and when i made him back up reared and thrashed out at me.

I spoke to the vet after this incident who has basically told me there is nothing i can do and no supplement that will work, its not hormone related as geldings done have hormones (this one sure as ell does!)
I am stuck maybe slightly scared and at a complete loss

Sorry its so long! x thanks

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Sounds like he is taking the pee a bit. I'd perserve and possibly do some ground work with him so that he's not a complete fool on the ground and slamming you in to walls etc. Could someone maybe hack out with you as a lead or on foot to help you keep him moving and stop with the calling until your a bit more confident? x

 

[kendra2705]

maybe there is a gelding only yard, you could move to but beware of meeting mares out on rides, does he mount the mares in the field, be brave and ride longer get the energy out try endurance , work him more may help , advertise for a loan share someone who is experienced if you are short of time , may make a difference good luck x

 

[dwi]

Are you sure he's not a rig?

 

[Lollii]

Could he be a rig? I don't know much about this subject but I have heard of it before.

I think the vet can do a test to see if he is, my geldings are intersted in mares but not to that extent!

 

[f_s_]

I would have him rig tested.

Also, even if he isn't a true rig, you can feed supplements which may help. You can also feed regumate if he is showing very rig behaviour.

 

[McNally]

Thanks for your ideas, I did start on groundwork and he's great- until he's having one of these days when you can just do nothing at all with him.
I dont really want to move yards as this one is affordable and convenient for me it also took him a long time to settle here.
He only gets put out with geldings but fairly close to mares.
I nearly always hack in company but there is only 2 horses he's good to ride out with (some others just wind him up further) and one particular mare that if she is not with him he go's potty whoever he is with.
I would love to find a sharer or similar just so worried he will injure someone.

 

[spaniel]

It may be that his 'security' is mares. Without knowing his background its hard to tell but I have known a number of tb horses who lived out in herds of broodmares as babies and were then taken for racing. Once they proved to be no good they were passed on to private homes and the need for the security of a mare presents itself.

What you are experiencing with yours could well be throw back to the weaning your chap had and IME Im afraid you can rarely make much of a difference once the behaviour is established.

Personally I would try and rehome this horse somewhere that he is happy and find yourself one who wont put you in hospital.

 

[McNally]

Spaniel, If i could rehome him i would! All i want is a safe-(dont mind lively) ride.
What ever i do i'm sure he will be passed from person to person and actually no-one would want him anyway!
If you came as a potential purchaser/loaner etc to see him you wouldn't get out of the car!

 

[McNally]

Sorry- just saw the rig questions- He may be but as far as i have heard true rigs are very few and far between, My vet did suggest a blood test but said it was highly unlikely as he is TB and racing yards usually have good vets etc.
Whats regumate and where would i get it?

 

[f_s_]

Please don't re home this horse!!!!!

If he is really dangerous consider PTS. I know that sounds truely awful, but, I have to do this to one of ours, he is a false rig and extremely dangerous through learnt behaviour. I couldn't pass him on as he would kill someone, so have to do this. Just can't bring myself to set a date yet, but I would never live with myself if he seriously injured someone.

 

[f_s_]

You can get regumate from the vet, but it's not cheap.

 

[AmyMay]

I'm not aware that you can give regumate to a male horse.......

And he sounds like a naughty, bloody minded sh*t - but not a horse to put down f_s. For goodness sake.......

OP who can you get some experienced help from????

 

[McNally]

f-s- I wont rehome him, Like i said i am too worried what would happen to him.
He is often a lovely horse and would actually make someone a fabulous eventer or dressage horse. He has stunning movement.

I cant get him pts as he can be lovely (maybe will have to be a winter rider!)

I will speak to another vet.

 

[McNally]

OP who can you get some experienced help from????

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't know?? my y/o daughter tried to help but he launched her into next week

(you have to suggest going on the bit rather than force him-- or else!)
I just don't know who to ask and cant afford much either.

 

[julia1245]

Hi there, I am an instructor/rider etc etc and fairly often come across horses that owners are at the end of their tether with! Without knowing your experience and its hard to say but have you sought professional help to maybe guide you through your handling/body language and ground work? Often this is the break through that is needed! I have a n ex-race horse and she did not understand what i was trying to communicate to her at all at first. I have found in so many instances that the communication is not quite understood and once i teach people how to communicate in a way that their horse understands it all starts to come toigether. Might help?? Does the behaviour improve when the horse is in company and how lang has he been out of racing?

 

[AmyMay]

What part of the country are you in Mcnally??

 

[f_s_]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not aware that you can give regumate to a male horse.......

And he sounds like a naughty, bloody minded sh*t - but not a horse to put down f_s. For goodness sake.......

OP who can you get some experienced help from????

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you can give regumate to geldings!! and no not all are bloody minded s*its some are dangerous, mine happens to be one!

Also, I wouldn't re home mine because of his behaviour, and yes, he can be a lovely horse, especially in the winter!

Before you ask, I have had the vet to him on numerous occassions and tried various things, so I have tried everything!

 

[Flame_]

I think the best thing for these highly strung types is hard, regular work. Try to keep their brain on the job. If you must do short hacks, school in the arena first. If you can, get out on endurance rides, or pay someone else to do it first. I also think a lot of hacking problems that don't happen in the school are down to the fact that you are walking. It is so easy for a horse to start playing up in walk. If its going forward in a good trot or canter its not so easy at all, so push him on on a good long ride.

 

[Natalie_H]

My TB gelding can also be a disobedient little sh*te at times. He is 10 now, but was far worse a few years ago. When I got him, my instructor (after a particularly awful lesson spending 45 minutes trying to make him walk past the gate in a straight line) said that if I really wanted to make something of him, then I would just have to be more pig-headed than him and be prepared for a real challenge. I'm not saying it's for everyone as I am sure that many people, as you say, just want a fun & safe ride. There are people like me out there though! I do agree with Amymay that he just sounds disobedient to me. Good luck!

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]


And he sounds like a naughty, bloody minded sh*t -

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be but it is far more likely to be insecurity/learned behaviour that needs patience, understanding and careful training. Most horses that are naughty are naughty because they have been inapproriately trained/handled/looked after. Thinking they are little sh1ts doesnt help, working out why they behave like they do and careful training does.

I agree, seek professional help. If however you explore this option and are unable to train the horse to act more safely then explore re-homing to someone who can deal with him. Do not rule out being PTS though, much better to PTS than the horse injure someone and/or be pushed around being beaten up for his behaviour.

 

[McNally]

Amy may-I am in Oxfordshire.
I do need help and more time to ride him i know- the problem being that he's being so stupid at the moment somedays i cant even consider riding him- i am reasonably confident or i would never ride again the things he has done but i am also not suicidal!
He has been out of racing 18 months but during that time had at least 8 months off. The ridden work he has done so far is just quiet hacking to chill him out (or that was the intention)
I havent asked much of him in the way of school work yet because he freaks out when he dosent understand and i want him to relax and see his life as being settled before he has to work properly.

 

[AmyMay]

Why not put a post up entitled something like - Help needed - Based in Oxford.

Quite a few people live in or around the area - and they may be able to come and lend you a hand.

 

[Natalie_H]

Seriously does sound like the clone of my horse! I couldn't have got over it without the help of my instructor who has been brilliant - and I had some serious doubts, nervousness & worries in the course of owning him. If I had more time, I think I could have got him right much sooner with more frequent regular work to keep his busy mind working with me - rather than against me - which is his tendency. Unfortunately I have never had the luxury of time, but he has come right - it just took longer than I would have liked

 

[McNally]

Really natalie? god its so nice to hear someone say that instead of the usual "omg he's hysterical" or he's "f******g mental" none of which help.
How did you find your instructor? I am really wary of lessons as i know how to ride him without antagonizing him and yes that means sometimes letting him have his own way but its how i've stayed on!

amymay I have in the past but no-one willing! (wonder why?!) one lady did actually show me some groundwork which was brilliant but its ridden work i need help with- maybe worth another try?

 

[AmyMay]

Go for it - the original post could have been missed by people.

 

[Natalie_H]

She was the friend of a friend. A good instructor is worth their weight in gold. I don't have the luxury of an all weather surface as I keep him on my own land, so we have always been restricted by weather as schooling is on the grass (or out on hacks!). What a good instructor will do is understand the buttons you need to push with your horse as they are all so different. An experienced eye will quickly work out the right method for your horse. My horse has read the book on evasions, and backing off you is his favourite. She has taught me to ride him forwards - despite trepidation in doing so! She has really taught me how to deal with his "quirks" in a calm, but firm way. If yours is anything like mine, then he needs to be challenged. Don't keep practising the same thing until he gets it right.......he will just get bored & think of more ways to evade. When you feel evasion, change direction, ask for something different. If they can predict what you are going to do, they can predict how to get out of it! If it makes you feel better, 5 years ago he would bite & kick. He reared up at my Mum and came down & took a chunk out of her chest. I have scars on both arms from bites. However, he was jekyll & hyde. He would be fine the next minute. He hasn't bitten or kicked in over 4 years now, and some groundwork with a Dually halter (not everyone's cup of tea I know) has taught him to respect me and my space. I could go on & on! PM me if you want to ask me anything!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Check his diet, feed hay/haylage/grass/grassnuts and NOTHING else, (no supplements which could have anything in as a filler), that might be making him difficult. It might have nothing to do with his diet but it could have and if it does you'll soon see the difference.
Have you thought about speaking to the Racehorse Rehabilitation people (sorry can't think of the exact name) for advice?

 

[teddyt]

Out of racing for 18 months is a very short time. Was he retrained for general riding? If not, you have the answer to your problems. In a racing yard they are in a strict routine. They also hack out/go to the gallops in groups. They walk there, have a canter/gallop in company (usually) and walk back. They always have horses alongside them in the stables and when they leave the stables there are several other horses about. If they go in a school they go in with other horses. They dont forget all that after being in a field.

They come out of racing and are expected to be calm on their own, being ridden in a totally different way than a jockey would ride them and often in a very different routine.

You have to always put your safety first but start at the beginning, keep expectations low and build up step by step. Get someone to help you and be patient. It can be done but will take alot of time and realistic expectations.
Good luck, i hope you can help your horse.

 

[McNally]

Well am going now! Thank you all so much for your help.xx
Teddyt i know its not long and we were getting places he was doing well- this is the problem, Yes he is lively but was working nicely had faced all traffic was hacking alone and in company etc UNTIL the mares started having seasons.
I know its not easy retraining a racehorse i didnt expect to jump on and ride off into the sunset! Its the fact that the change in him is so difficult to cope with when he was doing so well.
I see that the racehorse rehab people now have a helpline which i must find the number for- However i really don't think the fact that he's a ex-racer is the problem here.
Anyways like i said all advice VERY gratefully recieved- will check back later so keep it coming!! thanks xx