Help please!

[Thedandyhighwayman]

I have a 12 yr old thoroughbred x cob whom I back 2years ago. He started off fab and took everything in his stride and was jumping nicely etc. A few months later another rider rode him and he flipped over backwards and ever since he has been unrideable. Has had back checked and realigned and taken back to basics, copes fine with ground work as soon as I get on he rests and walks backwards. Not sure how to sort this situation out as not come across it before. All advice welcome. Photo of said horse below

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If he flipped over backwards he could have really injured himself. This could be way beyond the abilities of a back person to assess and fix. I think he needs a proper veterinary assessment and possibly a referral to a vet hospital for a proper workup as soon as lockdown allows this to happen.

 

[be positive]

You say you had his back checked but not what diagnostics a vet has done, it sounds as if there is something fairly serious going on that caused the flip over, that is not normal for any horse even if the rider is partly at fault, the fall could have compounded the original issue.

I have only known one horse in my many years dealing with all types that actually flipped over while I was working it, fortunately on the lunge at the time, that was historic behaviour, it had been sold on without this being declared I found out after some digging, I refused to continue with it until they had a full set of diagnostics done, the owners didn't want to do this so I asked them to take it elsewhere and after various attempts to get her riding again they gave up and I think she was pts.

In that case I suspect she had been injured in a previous home and the injury caused arthritis in the spine or neck which made being ridden very painful, I would want yours to have a proper check, possibly xrays and really do not advise getting on until you know he is really ok, a horse flipping over can kill you, this is why I refused to school the one here, it was just not worth it.

 

[Thedandyhighwayman]

If he flipped over backwards he could have really injured himself. This could be way beyond the abilities of a back person to assess and fix. I think he needs a proper veterinary assessment and possibly a referral to a vet hospital for a proper workup as soon as lockdown allows this to happen.

He has had a full work up and no issues were found. Had back person out after to just loosen him up again as felt tense x

 

[AmyMay]

10 is very late to be broken in. Was he previously started but showed a history of problems, and so passed on as unbroken?

 

[Thedandyhighwayman]

No is a homebred And was pretty dangerous to handle when younger. Had several vets out to geld but all the Vets struggled to sedate. Was finally done at 9yrs old when a vet used a blow dart. Once gelded and handled for a year started to break slowly and took to it like a duck to Water, it’s only since this accident with another rider he has become like this again.

 

[be positive]

So basically a very difficult youngsters who could not be handled properly and even most vets gave up, he then had some work, gained trust in you and then it all went pear shaped so he now no longer trusts you, as you bred him and left him to his own devices for 9 years I honestly think I would let him live out his life in peace unless you are prepared to get a top pro involved and potentially spend a fortune.

I know someone in the SW who takes on really tricky horses, or give Richard Maxwell a call, he sounds beyond the capabilities of the average trainer and with the going over some will refuse to take him on or you will not feel others are up to it, personally as I have my own land I would turn him away and leave him, some are just too troubled to ever be really confident, useful rides and I think if you bred it then there is more reason to leave them be as you know the whole history, it is not always the kindest thing to put them through the stress involved to get them going and it is not as if you are going to pass him on or be trying to recoup the cost of buying him.

 

[Thedandyhighwayman]

Was handled by myself from a young age, no one else could get near him. Have been told to give up on him, put him down etc. I personally feel it’s an anxiety he’s got since this accident but wanted others advice and opinions, which I appreciate. Has never been Mis-handled Not that I’m saying that’s what you think but some will. I have broken and competed numerous horses and they have all been successful in their respective fields. Was hoping there’d be a solution to his problem. Have tried ever calmer out there, gut balancers, has regular vet visits now and back check ups. But I guess there’s not a lot of hope x

 

[Joshiloh]

I have a 12 yr old thoroughbred x cob whom I back 2years ago. He started off fab and took everything in his stride and was jumping nicely etc. A few months later another rider rode him and he flipped over backwards and ever since he has been unrideable. Has had back checked and realigned and taken back to basics, copes fine with ground work as soon as I get on he rests and walks backwards. Not sure how to sort this situation out as not come across it before. All advice welcome. Photo of said horse below

Hi there,

It sounds like you have a very sensitive horse there, who was unable to cope with some pressure and so reacted. I am an Equine Body Worker and although the back is the first port of call when horses refuse to be ridden, there are often more areas which require work - often C1/C2 and C6/7 are badly affected and that causes issues all the way to the lumbar. So even though the thoracic spine may have been manipulated and the pelvis, if the poll and neck were not addressed at the same time, then it will just revert to the trauma state. DO NOT PUT THIS HORSE DOWN. He is probably in fight or flight mode because the Psoas has not switched off: the flight or fight mechanism. When this is switched on, he will be in a state of high anxiety pretty much all the time when with humans particularly, as the trauma occurred with a human. His confidence will have been shattered and he will be afraid to move in case of a repeat of trauma. He responded to an external situation it sounds like and is the type of horse who will hang on to the experience until he is absolutely convinced it is safe. This type of horse is super smart, intelligent and often very talented. It took a few seconds to traumatise this horse to this state but to him it has been a major insult to his whole being - heart, body, mind and spirit. Therefore he will need to be given the space, time and understanding to unravel himself and be heard. He is trying to tell you something and if you are patient and very, very kind and listen - he will let you in again if that is what you want for him.

There are other factors at play here too: for instance, when he went over backwards, did the saddle hurt him? Have you tried sitting on him with a bareback pad - I use a Total Contact Saddle a lot alongside my Solutions saddles.

I don't know where you are but please, do not put this horse down, they wrote off the little warmblood I took on - I took a huge risk with him as he had been put through hell, and all the vet checks you can imagine: kissing spine checks, suspensory firing, nerve blocks, scoped for ulcers - you name it! And still no one had managed to stay on his back. He was 7 and a half and had never cantered with anyone on his back; never hacked and was just terrified of moving his feet. I have resourced myself up with horsemanship etc and we are now doing classical dressage, garrocha, hacking, fun rides and he is a super boy. I have learnt to read his anxiety triggers way before they turn into anything big and his personality is growing all the time. It has taken a lot of patience, love, investment of time, learning, clinics, courses, bodywork, and has been worth every single minute of the almost 4 years I have had him. Most of all it has taken a huge amount of trust on both sides.

I am in agreement with you that anxiety may be a very big part of his issue at the moment, particularly if you have had the all clear for his back. But do check the scapula/lower neck and poll area. He could even have a rib or two out.

Best

 

[Thedandyhighwayman]

Hi there,

It sounds like you have a very sensitive horse there, who was unable to cope with some pressure and so reacted. I am an Equine Body Worker and although the back is the first port of call when horses refuse to be ridden, there are often more areas which require work - often C1/C2 and C6/7 are badly affected and that causes issues all the way to the lumbar. So even though the thoracic spine may have been manipulated and the pelvis, if the poll and neck were not addressed at the same time, then it will just revert to the trauma state. DO NOT PUT THIS HORSE DOWN. He is probably in fight or flight mode because the Psoas has not switched off: the flight or fight mechanism. When this is switched on, he will be in a state of high anxiety pretty much all the time when with humans particularly, as the trauma occurred with a human. His confidence will have been shattered and he will be afraid to move in case of a repeat of trauma. He responded to an external situation it sounds like and is the type of horse who will hang on to the experience until he is absolutely convinced it is safe. This type of horse is super smart, intelligent and often very talented. It took a few seconds to traumatise this horse to this state but to him it has been a major insult to his whole being - heart, body, mind and spirit. Therefore he will need to be given the space, time and understanding to unravel himself and be heard. He is trying to tell you something and if you are patient and very, very kind and listen - he will let you in again if that is what you want for him.

There are other factors at play here too: for instance, when he went over backwards, did the saddle hurt him? Have you tried sitting on him with a bareback pad - I use a Total Contact Saddle a lot alongside my Solutions saddles.

I don't know where you are but please, do not put this horse down, they wrote off the little warmblood I took on - I took a huge risk with him as he had been put through hell, and all the vet checks you can imagine: kissing spine checks, suspensory firing, nerve blocks, scoped for ulcers - you name it! And still no one had managed to stay on his back. He was 7 and a half and had never cantered with anyone on his back; never hacked and was just terrified of moving his feet. I have resourced myself up with horsemanship etc and we are now doing classical dressage, garrocha, hacking, fun rides and he is a super boy. I have learnt to read his anxiety triggers way before they turn into anything big and his personality is growing all the time. It has taken a lot of patience, love, investment of time, learning, clinics, courses, bodywork, and has been worth every single minute of the almost 4 years I have had him. Most of all it has taken a huge amount of trust on both sides.

I am in agreement with you that anxiety may be a very big part of his issue at the moment, particularly if you have had the all clear for his back. But do check the scapula/lower neck and poll area. He could even have a rib or two out.

Best

Hey I have no plans to put my horse to sleep, I have been working with him on the ground and I know he trusts me. During the back check his poll was found to be tight and so that was dealt with and also other things I can show you the images from the check up and is due another one soon.

 

[SusieT]

when you say full work up, does this include e.g. scope or just a trot up?

 

[Joshiloh]

Hey I have no plans to put my horse to sleep, I have been working with him on the ground and I know he trusts me. During the back check his poll was found to be tight and so that was dealt with and also other things I can show you the images from the check up and is due another one soon.

I am so pleased to hear this!! I would be interested to know how you get on if you have the time. Sensitive horses are so rich in the learnings they give us!!

 

[Arzada]

Hi there,
He is probably in fight or flight mode because the Psoas has not switched off: the flight or fight mechanism. When this is switched on, he will be in a state of high anxiety pretty much all the time

Interesting. Please can you expand on how and why the psoas switches on and off.