Help pls... new pony vetted passed now crook... What do I do.. Long winded but advise

J

Jacks Mum

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Ok this is long winded but...

Been looking for 'Mothers Dream'

Found 17yr old perfect pony in Cambridgeshire.. after several lengthy conversation am sure pony right for us n fairly novice 5 yr old son for us to love n teach him on ( i rode at good level for 25yrs)...

Owners decide we are the 'right' people n decide to keep pony till we could get there 2 weeks later... Viewed on very wondy rainy day, their daughter rode first W,T,C in school, n then our son was led then lunged at W, n T in school, our son n their daughter caught pony in, tacked up, groomed, turned back out.. perfect gentleman!

Decide LOVE pony n despite looking tad 'light' go with it n agree to have providing passes vet... their vet ( very large reptuable vet nr Huntingdon) vetted him following day (2 stage) n deemed pony perfect for lead rein n first ridden.. requested blood also taken...

Pony delivered to us on Friday (2 weeks ago today).. SO;
Sat PERFECT
Sun -"-
Mon Lunged n PERFECT
Tue off
Wed Perfect
Thur Little Skitty..
Fri Whilst lunging spun n threw son out of side door... carried on luckily son laughed n we continued... pony tried again n failed... Mummy nervous as pony looked in pain... checked pony over nothing found...
Sat.. same as Fri but son stayed on..
Sun day off

Mon saddler comes as saddle sold with pony AWFUL!! Saddler says pony has terrible back problems... ( after sinking his fingers deep into whithers n spine n quaters) yes agree pony has no muscle nor topline but is he that bad??
Saddler tries 30 odd saddles none fit!

Tue; Lovely man who lives in our village and is Equine Chiropractor comes n see pony.. Atlas out, neck sore, Withers really painful.. back sore and quarters sore... treats pony n says few days off n see how he is... explain 2nd saddler booked for wed pm as 1st saddler no saddle... (we've already paid £450 for his tack n rugs n didn't ket tack we tried him with... paki bridle n saddle older than me) Chiropractor says should be fine as son so diddy n only will sit on lightly with new saddle...

Wed; Saddler comes, firstly pony who perfect to catch won't be caught n its pissin down! Pony finally in, few saddles tried gently on but no good, then perfect saddle.. gentle go to girth up pony and pony stands straight up with look of pain... I feel awful!!

Saddler thinks i must be mad as i'm then crying wreck I've caused pony pain and more worried what we've bought and is son going to be safe!

AT THIS STAGE I ring previous owners who swears pony perfect n we must be feeding him wrong.. he has 1 section hay at night n 1 half scoop happy hoof n out in day on small paddock...
Thur vet to pony, poor pony bad back n neck etc... we've not done anything to hurt pony...

n today.. Pony calmer and we walk gently in hand out for half hour just to stretch legs...
Do i have comeback on vet who vetted him??

Pony is the sweetest pony on earth.. follows son like dog, licks son, cuddles with son, wondeful friendship.. stands to be groomed for hours n kids at yard pliat him n he loves the attention.. perfect 'pet' but no good to me if can't be ridden... Was he buted??

Spoke briefly to vets who vetted him n told they didn;t take blood as requested..... HELP!!!

I've lots of experiance... know should of listened to head re Wed saddle fitting n cancelled it but didn't so know thats my fault... but can't see anything else we've done wrong...

Cheers for reading this....
 
Golly, Jack's Mum, I can see why you're so upset.

I think that you need to get your vet out to look at him and to give you their opinion of the pony. You should also show your vet the vetting certificate. Even though your son is light, I don't think that the pony should be ridden until he is out of pain. Hopefully this is fixable with professional help, time and patience.
 
cant offer much help but am sorry to hear that :(
how old is he? could he be younger than you were told and need some more training?
 
I would be livid that they didnt take bloods.

Is there any chance that the pony could have injured himself in the field/rolling/getting up when he has been at yours.

has the back man said if he thinks it is an old injury?
Sounds odd that pony was totally fine up until the thursday, espesially since it is now in so much pain.
 
You poor thing!!!! and poor pony!!!! I would say if your vet will write a report to say he examined the pony and he has serious back problems then you have a case against the vet who gave him the all clear for riding purposes. But you definately need to seek legal advice on this and choose a firm that deals with equine cases. Dont feel too awful about the saddle fitting hindsight is a wonderful but annoying thing
 
How awful for you.
Im no expert but I dont think you have much come back, As far as I understand a 2 stage vetting doesnt really stand for much Im afraid. I think its just heart and eyes. A 5 stage vetting is much more in depth but even so it is a vetting 'on the day' so unless there is a long standing condition that has been missed then theres no come back. You may have some come back on the taking bloods as you asked for it to be done and they didnt do it but it may just be your word against theres. They always say not to use the vendors vet but theres no point in going in to that now as whats done is done.
Hopefully the problem was caused by the awful fitting saddle and once the ponys back is right then the sweet pony you bought will come back.
 
For whatever reason the pony has not worked out. I would suggest you do not get involved in a complex evaluation to establish why, stop paying people to look at the pony/tack etc and instead look to recover whatever funds you can to pay for a suitable pony.
In most situations this might prove difficult and involve a significant legal wrangle but the omission of the blood sample will have given you a potential "get out of jail free card".

Even had you not requested a blood sample it is most unusual not to sample routinely and to omit to do so will almost certainly be viewed as negligent by professional indemnity insurers

I know I sound hard-hearted but ultimately you are looking for a pony to ride not an expensive lawnmower. Seek legal advice, I suspect a single letter would probably be enough.
 
But the problem she has is that the pony was at her yard for 6 days and it was fine.
Day 7 it all went wrong. So unless back man will put it in writing that its a long standing problem, the previous owner will say, "it must have happened since you bought him"

Awful situation for new owner
 
I doubt that any length of epistle from a lay person who "manipulates" horse's backs will aid the OP.

As a vet it (almost) pains me to say so, but alleging negligence and chasing the vet is your most likely route to financial recompense. We carry indemnity insurance for a reason.
 
Don't waste your time trying to persue the vets - its like a boys club and they stick together. My friend bought a horse for eventing at intermediate level and had it 5 stage vetted. It turned out to have a grade 5 heart murmur and had to be retired. Turns out the vet didn't see the horse ridden as there was noone available to ride it and he didn't even listen to the horses chest because it was windy! In the stable???

She got offered meat money for a horse she paid £6k for (plus £500 in investigations).
 
Being a past PC Mum and have sold a couple to PC homes I would be mortified and want it back.
I used to run our PC sales list and heard some sad tales. Could this pony had more work in its previous home with a more competant rider and it has sussed your son?
I agree wilist a 2 stage vetting is superfacial is they were asked to take bloods and didn't take was not proffessional.
I would still try to appeal to the previous owners good nature, surely if they love this pony they will want it to do well in its new home.
Other wise small claims court, pony not as discribed (was it decribed as a first pony in sale add?) and Vet for monies lost due to negeliance. Fairly cheap to do, get the pony valued as it is and ask for costs to replacement and any expenses. There is a really good web site that helps you do this.
 
If you decide to keep the pony, see if you have a local vet that does accupuncture. We have one that does and has worked wonders with two of ours. Mine injured her neck (we think in the field) and the vet manipulated her neck and did three sessions of accupuncture, all is now well, and the muscle wastage on one shoulder is resolved. Sisters horse took to bucking her off, vet again did accupuncture as he felt there were pain issues (fits as this mare is a real softy and appears to be unwilling to deliberately hurt anyone) She too is now back in work and doing well. Worth a go
 
If it stated anywhere in print that it was a "perfect quiet to ride pony" and it ain`t..well that`s it really,trading standards for them and your money back.Don`t waste any more money on it,just get it returned and your recompense.
A pony of that age does`nt become a nutcase/cripple in six days.
 
I think any recourse against the vet is solely dependent on you being able to prove that you asked for bloods to be taken. I have had horses five stage vetted and the bloods are taken as a standard practice. I've also witnessed a two stage vetting and bloods weren't taken as standard.

The two stage vetting should have included the horse being flexioned, trotted up, having it's back looked at briefly and watching the pony turn in tight circles on both reins. It is much more than just looking at the eyes and listening to the chest....but obviously it doesn't include ridden work.

Sorry to hear it's not worked out. Is there anyway you can get your vets to request the history of the horse from the previous vets? This may show up treatment for conditions that fit the problems you're suffering.

Common rule of vetting...NEVER use the sellers vets. Always seek an independent vet!

If I had sold this pony, I would have wanted to take the pony back after a week and put it down to experience. How long as this pony with them for?
 
Patches said:
Is there anyway you can get your vets to request the history of the horse from the previous vets? This may show up treatment for conditions that fit the problems you're suffering.
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This would be my first course of action. More and more vets are prepared to do vetting on a horse registered with them but the ones I know of insist that they are given permission from the owner to disclose all records to purchaser (if asked) before they will do the vetting.
Have a word with the vets who did the vetting and ask for medical history.
 
If the pony has been with them for many years, I'd be very surprised if they wouldn't prefer to have it back, but they don't sound as though they cared much about him since they stuffed you up with his tack (criminal IMO to send crap tack and charge you the earth for it) and not ring up almost daily to see how he is. Were they in tears when he went?

The only thing which doesn't add up is the descent into unrideability over the course of a week. Is the pain really real? We got a 20yo on loan for my son's first pony and it turns out she had a reputation and a rap sheet as long as your arm for trashing beginners - we never had a day's trouble and won lots of rosettes. Also we never let her go - although we had other riders come to us - at 28, it wouldn't have been fair.

You could go storming back under the Trade Descriptions banner and see how far you get and ringing and speaking to the vet might enlighten you. I might spend a bit of time researching the pony's history in Pony Club if he has one. Google his name and see if he has his name on lots of Pony Club results pages, or anything. How long was he with them and was he really theirs?

I feel sorry for him and you and your son and I would be tempted to stick with him and see if he's fixable. Poor lad can't have much of a future if you pack him off down the road...

Good luck - he sounds like he doesn't deserve you quitting on him.
 
Whatever you decide to do, do it quickly. What a terrible thing to happen.
Personally, I would get 2 independant vets reports done on the pony, ring the vet that did the vetting and rip some f#cks into him.
If you cause enough fuss they should back down as they are obviously in the wrong, especially as the vetting you requested wasn't carried out (does this make it void) - hopefully you had one of their ****@st vets, having a 2*. Don't threaten with legal action on the vets, their insurance companies are richer than you!
Would push for a big discount on pony and try to fix.
 
I suspect your contract is with the vet who did the vetting......did you have a witness to your request for "bloods" to be taken?

Should the vendors vets have been doing the vetting? Sounds somewhat unethical to me.

I'd be contacting the vet again and asking them to explain their actions or lack of them and take it from there.

So far as I know as the pony has "passed the vet" there is no comeback on the vendor......see what the vet says. I agree it is something of a boys club but they do have a code of conduct!?.
 
You are in a difficult situation and you need to speak to an experienced equine solicitor.

I would imagine your case would be against the vet, but for this to succeed you need to either be able to prove that the pony had a pre-existing condition which the vetting vet failed to pick up on (you need your vet to put something in writing for you to this effect asap), or that he failed to take bloods when you asked him to. Bloods are not a usual part of a 2 stage vetting, you will have a stronger case if a witness heard you ask the vet for bloods (incidentally did you not see that the vet did NOT take bloods?).

As for the pony, you need a specialist vet to have a look at his back, please don't rely on saddlers for this and other professionals must only see after a vet referral. It is a bit odd that he was perfectly behaved for a week but now has a long standing, painful condition. I imagine he would have had to have been drugged up to the eyeballs to hide a very painful back and you would have noticed other changes in his behaviour.
 
Does anyone think that the saddle that he came with (that wasn't the one they tried him in) could possibly have anything to do with this? Could it have made his back sore over the past few days?
 
I thought the owners vet was not allowed to act on behalf of a person buying the horse. This seems very strange that the vet agreed to do this when they should have refused for legal reasons. They could say anything and pass it.

I would seek legal advice straight away.
 
I would have said no, you wont have any comeback with the vet as you only requested a basic two stage vetting, however you DID requests bloods to be taken and i would be questioning why this was not carried out. You would be unlikely to be in a position to sue the seller unless you could PROVE that he was buted when you bought him (which would be practically impossible) only then, in my view could you have a comeback from the vet. I would defo take some legal advice, i have been in a similar situation which is actually still ongoing. I would recommend that you diplomatically approach the seller first before going ahead with any legal proceedings. I do feel for you though, its a terrible situation to be in...hope it all come right


ps. I would also ask the sellers if you could possibly have access to his vetrinary records, If you do this in a friendly manner and if they decline I would question why, and be more inclined down the legal route as they may have something to hide, again- best of luck
 
yorksG said:
If you decide to keep the pony, see if you have a local vet that does accupuncture. We have one that does and has worked wonders with two of ours. Mine injured her neck (we think in the field) and the vet manipulated her neck and did three sessions of accupuncture, all is now well, and the muscle wastage on one shoulder is resolved. Sisters horse took to bucking her off, vet again did accupuncture as he felt there were pain issues (fits as this mare is a real softy and appears to be unwilling to deliberately hurt anyone) She too is now back in work and doing well. Worth a go
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Just to elaborate on this (I'm YorksG's sister), my mare had had her backed checked by the vet at vaccs time end of Aug last year. She started being very spooky mid-Sept, had saddle checked and adjusted slightly, behaviour didn't improve, barely rode over the winter. I was bucked off twice on hacks just after the snow but not on consecutive rides.
I'm sure it must be very worrying when you want your son to ride but tbh I feel that the pony might have done something to itself 'exploring' its new home. As sis said acupuncture had been marvellous for ours with muscle probs. I have also had it myself in the past and it has worked almost like magic!
 
I would have said 2 things are causing this 1) the saddle being an old saddle that ISN'T the one you tried and supposedly bought with the pony.
and 2) the pony having probably spent several years in previous home is unsettled and perhaps falling back to past behaviour that had been schooled/trained out of it by the ever more competent rider of said pony over the years of ownership.

I agree with Faracat and I would be demanding the saddle you tried/bought OR a return of the saddle you got and a refund for it, and getting a specialist vet to look at said pony's back, lots of groundwork with the pony in the mean time and then re-starting.
 
Did you not check the saddle for fit before your son first rode. Surely if its not the one you tried him in alarm bells would ring as ponies rarely have two fitting saddles. Personally I would lunge him in an long outline gently building up some topline no saddle or son. Then get a saddler to either find a saddle and make adjustments or make one from scratch. But if he has no topline don't do it straight away because is shape will change with proper work. We've had a couple with bad backs and just what we have done but I would say avoid pain relief where possible or ppnies will continue to work in a way that will hurt them once there is no relief so build up the wrong muscles. This also happened to me when I hurt my back. Really bugs me how people do to ponies backs what they wouldnt dream of doing to horses.
 
Ok the way I see it is, pony came with a rubbish saddle that you have been told does not fit him. Before this he wore one that did so presumably caused his back no harm, he did pass the vetting afterall and presumably his back was checked during this. Once the pony got home he was ridden in a poorly fitting saddle for a few days, obviously this caused hi pain, being a good pony he put up with it for awhile but as the pain/damage became cumulative he couldn't cope anymore so complained. Thankfully now he has a saddle that does fit but he will now be very wary of it due to memories of saddles causing pain (horses are extremely good at remembering things that hurt them), so will react badly to it initially until he realises it no longer hurts (so long as his previous injuries are fully healed that it).

So there you go. Of course I could be wrong but this seems to be the story that makes most sense in my opinion. I would give the pony a few more days rest for his back to heal. Then you will need to desensitise him to the saddle again. Give him a good lunge in the saddle before your son next rides him so he can both realise it is not hurting him and get rid of any excess energy from not working. Hopefully then you will have a much happier outcome.

I hope it all works out for you. :)
 
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