Help - psycho lickle ex race horse... where to start?

Girlracer

Girlracer

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Well, where do i start... this is a thread i'm really hoping to get some good replies to because, i'm really not to sure what to do!

For those that don't know him Major is a 6yo ex racer, i got him in September as a project, he was relatively un-touched after coming out of racing minus a bit of groundwork.

He has taken to everything exceedingly well, always had a spark about him but always safe, sane and sensible. Well the last week and a half he has been the devil brought back as a horse under saddle. I am 100% sure this isn't behavioural but in-fact a change in something has brought it on. He's gone from sane hacking in company to leaping about, fly bucking (and i'm not talking little ones, this is the real deal) and generally being a plonker, it's not only hacking but also in the school (where he has NEVER been naughty). But today was the final nail in the coffin when i tried to do a solo hack and he decided he wanted to turn around so started flinging himself round and when i asked him forward stood up on his back legs numerous times, to the point i thought for sure he was going over backwards. I ignored him and moved him the way I wanted to go and minus jogging the whole way we got hime the way i wanted to go fine. Oh and he has gone from scared of nothing to spooking at EVERYTHING.

Okay so recent changes (please help me pin-point exactly what's set this off) -

Yard move - i have dis-missed this as we moved in February, and he settled so well and has actually been better behaved at this yard.

Switch to haylage from hay - this was over a month ago now... and he's been perfectly normal until the last week or so?

Change in feed - he's gone from plain basic nuts to topline conditioning cubes, he has just started his second bag of topline and has a scoop a day so a relatively recent change. I've also added oil and a small amount of sugarbeat, but he has had sugarbeat before problem free.

Grass - could this just be an ill effect of the spring grass?

Workload - usually i work him every day, however last week he had a few days off and this is when the problem started. However i have exercised him (hard) every day this week with no change in behaviour. So i believe the few days off just exagerated whatever's sent him loopy.

I thought for sure he was the thoroughbred that nothing phased, i've given him a week off and hopped on for a ride no problem in the past. And he no fitter now than ever before.

Problem is i don't want to loose his condition, so what do i do? Could it be feed related? Do i go for a bare paddock? Or do i change the hard feed?

His behaviour doesn't phase me as such, i am a relatively competent and confident rider, however i really don't want to have to be on my toes the whole ride i want my nice chilled and relaxed pony back :( this is a photo of how he's looking condition wise...

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Any constructive help, GREATLY appreciated!
 
I would try him without the conditioning cubes for a week or so to see if there is any difference as my sec d went stupid when i put him on these last year, he tends to be spooky anyway but these seemed to make him worse. Try feeding him on a high fibre and oil diet and also lunge before you ride to take the edge of him?
 
If he were mine I would get the vet out to exclude any physical issues. It would be as simple as tweeked muscle that is being aggravated by the saddle, but in my experience a lot of sudden changes in behaviour are indivative of pain (not necessarily anything serious but something you'd always want to diagnose and treat).

If all is well, I would cut out all hard feed. To me he looks to be in very good condition, even a bit over for this time of year and the new grass plus the hard feed may explain the problems you are having.

If none of this helps it may just be that he has entered his teenage years and is testing the boundaries. Unfortunately they all go through phases like that. Is there someone on the ground who can help you out with ideas on how to respond to him when he plays up? It does sound like he has quite a few tricks up his sleeve!
 
minniemouse said:
I would try him without the conditioning cubes for a week or so to see if there is any difference as my sec d went stupid when i put him on these last year, he tends to be spooky anyway but these seemed to make him worse. Try feeding him on a high fibre and oil diet and also lunge before you ride to take the edge of him?
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I was thinking maybe it's the feed, so i might try calm and condition or similar?

I've tried lunging him and putting him on the walker before riding but un-fortunately he's a relatively fit thoroughbred so it really doesn't even dent him. He is better in the school now and actually schooling extremely well. It's more out and about i'm having the problems, i don't even want to think about what he'd do if i tried to pop a fence :eek:
 
My TB went from being really quiet ride to rearing and nearly going over backwards after he had been out on loan and the trainer said it can be an issue that builds up in them so it could be they yard move maybe that started to stress him out. Maybe a good idea to get his teeth and back checked etc just incase good luck with him though
 
Booboos said:
If he were mine I would get the vet out to exclude any physical issues. It would be as simple as tweeked muscle that is being aggravated by the saddle, but in my experience a lot of sudden changes in behaviour are indivative of pain (not necessarily anything serious but something you'd always want to diagnose and treat).

If all is well, I would cut out all hard feed. To me he looks to be in very good condition, even a bit over for this time of year and the new grass plus the hard feed may explain the problems you are having.

If none of this helps it may just be that he has entered his teenage years and is testing the boundaries. Unfortunately they all go through phases like that. Is there someone on the ground who can help you out with ideas on how to respond to him when he plays up? It does sound like he has quite a few tricks up his sleeve!
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Thanks for your reply!

First off i have already ruled out physical problems, but to be honest he almost looks wild on the ground. And has gone from a docile plod that never does so much as mooch round the field to hooning about most the time, to the point the YO rang me to come and check him as he was having an un-characteristic funny five!

Part of me wondered if he was merely testing the boundaries, purely because as soon as he realised he couldn't just go home he seemed to settle. However he was still very on his toes and i'm embarrassed to say i had to whisper sweet nothings to him most the way home as a last ditch attempt to calm him down. :o

I'm seriously considering getting rid of the hard feed, seeing if it makes a difference. Perhaps some chaff and oil, and that's it? I have a lesson tomorrow so if he does mis-behave at least there's someone to give me a hand, but to be honest i think i've handled it best i could for him so far, i know if i argue with him he'll argue back so i ignore him then ask him (firmly) to move on and generally once he realises i won't fight back he settles.
 
Could easily be the haylage. My chestnut was completely bonkers on standard hayledge, but normal/fine on hay (or blue low cal horsehage). She was always a sharp ride, but was completely rediculous when she went onto standard haylage. Took a couple of weeks to really take effect, so more than possible. Also you have combined this feed change with conditioning cubes so the effect has probably been magnified
 
welshied said:
My TB went from being really quiet ride to rearing and nearly going over backwards after he had been out on loan and the trainer said it can be an issue that builds up in them so it could be they yard move maybe that started to stress him out. Maybe a good idea to get his teeth and back checked etc just incase good luck with him though
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Thanks, his back and teeth have been done in the past month. And they actually have, i'm not even making that up! In fact his back was checked this week as the lady lives in the village :D

As far as the rearing goes, this was a one off today i don't believe he is a rearer as such just a big ticking time bomb that tries to release his energy in anyway possible :eek:

I almost think he needs a good gallop (not that he never gets a good run, because he certainly does) but the ground is like concrete and we don't have any decent stretches that he can stretch his legs accross!
 
Cool down the feed big time! I'd say that combined with grass being so lush is the prob. The good spell of weather means grass sugar levels have soared so he is prob equivalent to a child loaded up with starburst sweets!! Condition wise he is looking pretty nice and you have to bear in mind that this is the first time he has been this fit since he came out of training so he is prob not used to being so fit without his work being stepped up. With our fit tbs who are racing when we want to keep them ticking over after a race without galloping them I get them to play with on the flat. I find the easiest thing is challenge their brains...lateral work, collection, extension, polework! they are a very intelligent breed and if you challenge them mentally you have more success!
 
I'd switch from conditioning cubes to something oil based (Baileys outshine?). Also what's he like with flies? Could be they are irritating the hell out of him & he is turning himself inside out because they are irritating him. Try him on something like think fly & use a good repellent as well. Just a thought.
 
Change the hard feed defo :D Bailey's Topline Conditioning Cubes contain 0.5% less protein than Bailey's Racehorse Cubes - otherwise they are identical :D

Plus he is also probably at the "half fit" stage which is when most racehorses are at their worst - they think they are fitter than for the work they are doing and so create energy wasting games for themselves.

Add all that in with the first bits of spring grass coming through and you have a ticking time bomb :D
 
Hmmm, I would be thinking about the grass. How many hours a day is he grazing? If quite a lot I would cut out the hard feed. His condition is good enough to do without it.
Also, as he is now doing work that tests his brain more he might have also suddenly 'switched on'.

How tense do you get when he plays up? Would it be possible to make him just stand when nicks around? Not go forward or back. Just stand. Wait for him to relax and then after a few minutes when all thoughts (you and him) have been collected you ask him to move on - forwards. I know that sounds easy written down but sometimes I think horses get everything muddled up in their brain and instincts take over and they get themselves even more wound up.
 
Thank you for all your replies, i was thinking hard feed all along (i really should go with my gut) but i wasn't sure. Any suggestions as to what i should feed him? Bailys outshine was one... what exactly is that?

As for challenging him, i do challenge him a lot and ask a lot of him brain wise, he is a very intelligent horse and really has to be kept entertained.

Pardalis, i'm not going to say i don't tense up at all but really it doesn't bother me. In fact most the time i ride him on a loose rein and today when he had his episode it wasn't any different, nor has it been any different all week.

EKW very interesting fact about the feed, thank you! I have referred to him as my ginger ticking time bomb a few times this week!
 
I would totally knock out all the hard feed. (Why have you changed from Hay to Haylage)? Go back to Hay and if you have to feed then only change one thing at a time. Alot has changed for him since Feb.
 
Haha said:
I would totally knock out all the hard feed. (Why have you changed from Hay to Haylage)? Go back to Hay and if you have to feed then only change one thing at a time. Alot has changed for him since Feb.
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He dropped a lot of weight, the haylage is free (incl in price) so i gradually introduced it as soon as we moved. :)

I don't think it's the haylage as he's been a star (incl a few funrides) since i put him on haylage, now i've written it our and thought about it the behavioural change has come since the change in feed :)
 
My mare went psycho about three bags into Allen & Page "sustain" -I put it down to spring grass and it was only after she bolted with me, the one and only true bolt I have ever experienced in over 30 years of riding, that I decided something was seriously wrong. Cut out the feed and swore never to ride her again haha. Luckily after 7 days without feed I could see in her eye that she was herself again. Got her back on good old "Calm and Condition" and never had a problem again. Horses really do react to feed in crazy ways and not always immediately!
 
I would seriously consider getting him scoped for ulcers, we have a mare that behaviour changed just like your lad and she has Grade 1 ulcers. I would also cut all sugars out of his feed. When was his saddle last checked, if he has built up quickly his saddle could also be causing problems.

Sorry meant to add, haylage really can set ulcers off bit time, as can mollassed sugar beet.
 
MissTyc said:
My mare went psycho about three bags into Allen & Page "sustain" -I put it down to spring grass and it was only after she bolted with me, the one and only true bolt I have ever experienced in over 30 years of riding, that I decided something was seriously wrong. Cut out the feed and swore never to ride her again haha. Luckily after 7 days without feed I could see in her eye that she was herself again. Got her back on good old "Calm and Condition" and never had a problem again. Horses really do react to feed in crazy ways and not always immediately!
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This sounds very similar, when i brought him in from his 'holiday' on Sunday he just didn't look like him in his eye at all, he looked wild!

scally said:
I would seriously consider getting him scoped for ulcers, we have a mare that behaviour changed just like your lad and she has Grade 1 ulcers. I would also cut all sugars out of his feed. When was his saddle last checked, if he has built up quickly his saddle could also be causing problems.

Sorry meant to add, haylage really can set ulcers off bit time, as can mollassed sugar beet.
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Hi, i will bare that in mind but perhaps try the less drastic measure of removing the feed and see if it has an effect. Thanks though, i will bare it in mind :)
 
Take him off the cubes!
Are they baileys no.4? My late mare went freakazoid on them, she grew red horns and was basically evil personified.
Is he on rich grass? Even if he is on poor grass there will be some tasty morsels coming through and spring grass is up to 40% sugar!

I keep ccondition on my TB with baileys lo cal balancer, it's really low in starch so doesn't send TB's crazy. Give him that with some showshine chaff and some veg oil will do the trick.

Also all horses are generally being a bit of a plonker at the moment, as well as the grass it's the weather. Spring makes them feel fab. I had to actually get off my safe as houses TB the other week lol, it was either get off or go splat! Even my friends 19yr old mrs sensible IDxWB nearly had her in tears she was such a spooky witch out hacking and my friend has balls of steel!

Secondly it probably won't hurt to get saddle/back checked again especially as he is filling out, things could have changed and he may be feeling sore.

Dont worry though, you know he's a good egg, he'll get back to that :)
 
firewell said:
Take him off the cubes!
Are they baileys no.4? My late mare went freakazoid on them, she grew red horns and was basically evil personified.
Is he on rich grass? Even if he is on poor grass there will be some tasty morsels coming through and spring grass is up to 40% sugar!

I keep ccondition on my TB with baileys lo cal balancer, it's really low in starch so doesn't send TB's crazy. Give him that with some showshine chaff and some veg oil will do the trick.

Also all horses are generally being a bit of a plonker at the moment, as well as the grass it's the weather. Spring makes them feel fab. I had to actually get off my safe as houses TB the other week lol, it was either get off or go splat! Even my friends 19yr old mrs sensible IDxWB nearly had her in tears she was such a spooky witch out hacking and my friend has balls of steel!

Secondly it probably won't hurt to get saddle/back checked again especially as he is filling out, things could have changed and he may be feeling sore.

Dont worry though, you know he's a good egg, he'll get back to that :)
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Thank you, the 'lo cal' bit sold it for me!! He is certainly a good egg, just a minor slip of the halo.

And best of all i know i'm not going to hit the deck as soon as it gets a bit hairy, and i'm ashamed to say i've actually quite enjoyed the past week or psycho horse :o but i am aware it's not really for the best so somethings got to change!
 
My ex-racer did exactly the same thing to me last week. Usually he is reasonably sane. Yours has had a lot of changes in a short period of time and tb's are very sensative to any change.

If your haylage is free, lucky you! Mine has always had haylage since I have had him. He is usually on his toes but not dangerous. I agree with everyone else, spring grass does not help but does his hard feed contain barley? I changed mine on to a conditioning feed during the spring 2010 which contained barley. I only gave him 2 feeds and rapidly removed it.

I don't change any of his feeds now (all are non-heating) just vary the quantities of each I give him depending on workload, condition, weather etc.

If you want to know more pm me.
 
Btw, I would tense too!! My advice is given with common sense in mind but in reality my ticker would be going in over drive too!!
But saying you ride him on a loose rein.... As you cut out/change the hard feed also try and work him with purpose whilst hacking. I know it takes a bit away from a lovely relaxing hack whilst you enjoy the scenery but it'll give him something to think about. I don't ride at the moment but when I did ride horses out like that I used to pretend we had a job to do. Like I was in the show ring and we were trying to be the best. Yes, sounds corny - but it really helped.
 
My tb is currently going through a mental phase, he's normally like a donkey but recently he's been a complete prat on ground, under saddle and even in the field (I feel sorry for his little herd they're really taking the brunt of it!) he's OB tooling conditioning cubes, normally a full Stubbs scoop, plus alfalfa, sugar beet and soya oil. It's the first summer ive had him ( got him sept 2010) I'm cutting down his feed cos I'm convinced it's that that's blowing his mind. He's been fine on this ever since I got him but I think the spring grass plus plenty of hard feed is just way too much.
 
I would go with changing his food too. I have a chestnut TB gelding who looks very like your boy if it is the one in your signature? He is very hard to keep weight on but anything that even suggests that it is a conditioning food sends him through the roof - I've tried all sorts. It took me about 2 yars to get it right but he is now on Simple Systems blue grass nuts and Baileys Lo- Cal Balancer (just a mug full). The grass nuts are great as you can feed as much as you like (pretty much) and they have little effect on him mentally, however he looks the best he has ever looked and is sooooo chilled it is un true. My 3 yr old even rides him now! He's been on this for 2 years and this winter I've had other liveries commenting on how great he looks and asking me to buy bags of the grass nuts off me! The only down side to Simple Systems is you have to order it off the internet and they have a minimum delivery charge so I end up with 8 bags per delivery but that lasts me ages. Have to say I was a little sceptical of the Simple Systems feed range at first but no I wouldn't feed him anything else! The only other thing I tried that didn't send my boy loopy was Copra Meal (Coolstance) which is dried coconut. I would use this again if I needed to as well. Hope you get sorted out.
 
Other thing I forgot to mention in my other post is look at the stach content of the feeds you're considering using rather than the protein level...the starch is what gives the energy! He looks fab in the pics
 
condition cubes do send them a bit wild and really help build the muscle so hes probably feeling the power plus spring grass i would def try without! think they're all on it... actually dreading my ex-racer getting better, brining them back into work is always the worst part!
 
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