Help! Ragwort Expert..I.D needed please? (also in NL)

ScratchyMooMoo

ScratchyMooMoo

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Help! :eek:
I've found quite a bit of yellow weed type stuff in the first bale of our new haylage we've opened. I know what normal ragwort looks like but I'm unsure about the other types such as the finer Oxford ragwort. The flower head on this stuff looks almost identical to the common ragwort when dried but the stems are much finer and there are less flower heads per stem and less leaves. Does anyone know if this is a type of ragwort? It could just be something like Hawkweed I guess but I'm just not sure. I've looked at loads of pictures on the internet and now I'm a little bit worried incase it is, it looks very similar if it isn't. We've just bought 20 large bales of it as well! :(

Hoping someone might be able to I.D. Please?? link to pics..

http://s1233.photobucket.com/albums/...cratchyMooMoo/
 
I miss some details to make sure which specific Senecio or Jacobaea species this one is. Maybe you can put some leaves in water with some glycerine for a few hours and then carefully expand the leaves. But for what I can see, it would be a ragwort/groundsel, but missing details for the exact determination. Any ripe seeds you can find in the older flowers are also helpfull to find the right kind of species.
 
Thanks guys

EstherHegt - I think you maybe right, it looks like Marsh or Oxford ragwort to me.

Cuffey - thanks for that link, really handy, although it looks more like the ragwort than the 'look a likes' on your link. :(
 
ScratchyMooMoo said:
Thanks guys

EstherHegt - I think you maybe right, it looks like Marsh or Oxford ragwort to me.

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Click to expand...

I don't think it is Jacobaea aquatica ( for me it is difficult to tell in English about the leaves) Maybe this pictures will work for you, http://www.jakobskruiskruid.com/website/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=48&gid=63

I am thinking ( but missing to much details) it is possibly this one Senecio viscosis http://www.jakobskruiskruid.com/website/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=48&gid=61

If you like you can sent me some plant material by post, but you can also sent material I think to an English university and herbarium or maybe buglife can help you also. I am pretty sure this plant in your hay is a ragwort species. The seller have to buy it back and sell ragwort free hay.
 
Thank you for the offer, that's very kind. I sent some to Dr Knottenbelt at Liverpool university yesterday for I.D. he is going to get it analysed for me. Hopefully it should be okay to return our haylage if it is ragwort, the seller was a known friend, a little awkward! but I'm sure they will happily take it back. I will let you know the results when I get them.
 
Update from Doctor Knottenbelt and his poisonous expert, it is definitely ragwort! Worth noting the pictures because it really does not look like your normal run of the mill common ragwort! Going to have to get rid of 20 large bales of the stuff now :mad:

Correspondence below..

Dear Rachel
Well, that goes to show!!! These bales are not horse feed!!! Whether they are cattle feed is another issue of course but in reality the whole batch really needs to be destroyed!
Hugh is an absolute expert in plant identification and a world authority on poisonous plants!

D


Hi Derek,

Yes, possibly Oxford ragwort, Senecio squalidus, or fen ragwort, S. aquaticus, but precise identification doesn't really matter as all Senecio species contain much the same alkaloids and seem, from reports, to me more or less equally toxic. Sorry, it is bad news for your correspondent. The plant is certainly a Senecio, there is no question of one of the many other similar Composite/Asteraceous genera such as Hieracium (hawkweeds), Crepis (hawksbeards - which can look very similar to Senecio spp.), etc.

Hope helpful.

Best wishes,

Hugh
 
ScratchyMooMoo said:
Update from Doctor Knottenbelt and his poisonous expert, it is definitely ragwort! Worth noting the pictures because it really does not look like your normal run of the mill common ragwort! Going to have to get rid of 20 large bales of the stuff now :mad:
Click to expand...

It is European law, you can bring back your hay, it is not permitted to sell animal feed what is not safe for animals.

Maybe this hay is ok for gerbils hamsters and guinea pigs http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6665808 but it is not for horses and cows.
 
Luckily we knew the seller and they're going to take it back without question, so it's all sorted now thank goodness! They have horses as well so will be quite concerned too. Just glad we noticed it and have stopped feeding it.

Thank you for your help.:)

I'll certainly be more careful when checking haylage/hay in the future!
 
I am glad that I could help, on my Dutch website we have a forum ( we are updating that forum, it is closed at the moment) I can make also an English language part for the identification for plants. You did well to make pictures of your ragwort. That is very important.
Often there are mis identifications, but your hay was not. Glad to hear you can bring it back and the sellers are nice.
 
The land it came from was quite low lying, kind of wet meadow land, so possibly the type of ragwort that likes wet conditions maybe. I can send you some if you are interested? I have a whole bag of the stuff!:) looking at it closely there isn't many leaves at all, that is why I thought marsh ragwort

How about this one? The dried picture is pretty much a match for my stuff!

http://luirig.altervista.org/photos/j/jacobaea_erratica.htm
 
Sure you can sent me some material, maybe we can do that by a PB. ( My adress etc)
The pictures you did sent now is like Jacobaea aquatica, the habitat you describe make that possible also. I am very interested cause it is still possible it is a different plant. I think it is indeed a ragwort, but still missing important details.
I was a bit amazed about the determination you got, because some ragworts where mixed up ( like Senecio aquaticus is MARSH ragwort not FEN ragwort. S. paludosus ) This makes me more curious.
But it is true it is not good food for a horse.
 
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