HELP - Selling horse with a proviso

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*Spyda*

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I am gifting my WB mare to a friend tomorrow. Because she feels better if she 'owns' the horse (as supposed to loaning) I have agreed to sell the horse for £5.00 but on the agreement that she can only ever sell the horse back to me for the same amount should she wish to sell her later on. The horse is a 6 year old and is suitable for moderate hacking only - no jumping because she had bench knees. Said friend is only looking for a hack, so is really happy to have my mare.

Question is, can I ask her to sign something which holds our agreement in place? Legally?
 
You can ask her to, and she can do, but enforcing it legally (ie taking her to court to get money if she sells on for a profit) would be difficult, costly and at risk of not suceeding. It would be very very difficult to actually get your horse back as the new owner would correctly and legally own the horse.

Why won't she loan??
 
I'm sure if you give a solicitor a quick ring they should be able to tell you over phone if its a yes or no, then take it from there.
 
How good a friend is she? Why won't she loan and how determined is she that she must own the horse?

If I were you, I would rather keep ownership of the horse, but agree that your best bet is to get legal advice. If you're a BHS Gold member....get on the phone to the legal helpline.
 
Thanks. TBH she's my best horsey friend (known her for 16 years now) and I trust her to her word. I am inclined to draw up something for her to sign, just so she's definitely clear on what we're agreeing upon at this stage. I guess if down the line she did the dirty on me, then I'd lose contact with my mare and she'd lose her best friend.

I understand her not wanting to loan. She's had a few bad experiences in the past loaning. Even if I were to offer her a permanent loan I think she's worried I might change my mind down the line and ask for the mare back once she was well and truly attached. If my friend doesn't have her, I will have to consider selling her on as a light hack to a stranger, so at the moment this is the best arrangement IMO.

Yep I am a BHS Gold member but cant remember my membership details!
 
It's impossible to enforce. Once ownershp has transferred you then cease to have any say in the welfare or use of the horse - just as if you sold a tea kettle.

It's like these adverts "for a competition/showing home only" absolutely unenforcable.
 
You don't need your membership details to call the BHS - ring them and they will look you up. You may as well take advantage of the legal service just forpeace of mind, but considering you are such good friends I would have thought it unlikely she would do something underhand.
 
Write a detailed receipt, what the mares issues are, what she can do/ can't do and the fact that the price of £5 reflects this and get her to sign it.
Also worth writing details of her medical issues in her passport so if she was sold on any new owner would be aware. i don't know if you're legally allowed to write in them but I suspect the passport authorities have bigger things to worry about TBH!!
 
How about a 30 year lease @ 20p a year, that way you can put your conditions in the lease agreement, i.e. cannot be sold or transferred or move home without your agreement, you can only claim her back if not being kept to the agreed standard which is confirmed by a vet etc.
 
How about being joint owners so the horse cant be sold without your permission
Mind you that would only work with someone who isnt devious enough to get a new passport
 
Sorry to say this, but once he's sold, he's sold, and you have absolutely no rights any more. New owner can do as they wish with the horse. Sorry.
 
Shysmum said:
Sorry to say this, but once he's sold, he's sold, and you have absolutely no rights any more. New owner can do as they wish with the horse. Sorry.
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What she said. I had the 'first refusal' thing on the receipt of a pony I sold years ago. They sold him whilst I was on holiday, less than two weeks later, to a dealer. Never saw him again. So, be VERY sure you want to sell.
 
You can sell and put a caveat on the sale. You would need two bills of sale, one for you and a duplicate for her. They should be signed and witnessed.

You can state that the sale at the price at of £5 is based upon the following condition:

"that if she decides to sell the horse then the horse has to be offered back to you at the sale price of £5, that you have 28 days from receipt of her informing you (by recorded delivery) that the horse is to be sold to take up this option. If you do not take up your option then she is free to sell the horse elsewhere and keep the proceeds. If she fails to inform you, in this method, that the horse is for sale then she is to recompense you to the sale value (less £5 and selling costs) or £3000 whichever is the greater"

Obviously if she did sell the horse without your consent then there would be nothing that you could do to cancel the sale, however you would have sufficient evidence about the intent behind your contract to take her to court ensure that it would not be worth her while to sell behind your back.
 
I have a first refusal aggreement with the owner of one of mine but think about it say someone offers £2000 for the horse and the new owners circunmtances has changed for the worse and that £2000 is really needed where would that leave you ?
I knew when I signed the agreement for mine it meanlt nothing the only way I would ever have sold him is if he was needing to go on to complete and I did not want to in which case the purchase price would have been much much higher.
Go for joint ownership if you can .
Is it the homebred mare with a deviated foreleg issue ? I understand your desire to place her somewhere right but be careful the fact you are asking the question shows you are on unsure about something.
 
Goldenstar said:
Is it the homebred mare with a deviated foreleg issue ? I understand your desire to place her somewhere right but be careful the fact you are asking the question shows you are on unsure about something.
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Yes, that's the mare. My 16.2 6 year old. She's only useful for general hacking which isn't what I bred her for and as I cannot keep two horses (have neither the time nor money) I jumped at the chance when my good friend asked if I knew of any happy hackers for sale. She suffered a bad riding accident several years ago which limits her antics to gentle riding. She sold her Arab stallion last year and is left with Section A and B ponies which are too small for her to ride herself. My mare should be perfect for her needs.

I'm not sure how joint ownership would work? It would concern me that it might implicate me a responsibility for her upkeep and costs. Basically, I just want J to keep my mare and pay all costs until such time she no longer wants her. I can imagine this only happening if her financial circumstances altered or the mare became permanently unrideable. In either case, I would wish to have her back. And if I couldnt take responsibility for her myself for any reason, would want involvement in securing her next home. Sounds like a loan to me..... But she doesnt want a loan :-(
 
Lizzie66 said:
You can sell and put a caveat on the sale. You would need two bills of sale, one for you and a duplicate for her. They should be signed and witnessed.

You can state that the sale at the price at of £5 is based upon the following condition:

"that if she decides to sell the horse then the horse has to be offered back to you at the sale price of £5, that you have 28 days from receipt of her informing you (by recorded delivery) that the horse is to be sold to take up this option. If you do not take up your option then she is free to sell the horse elsewhere and keep the proceeds. If she fails to inform you, in this method, that the horse is for sale then she is to recompense you to the sale value (less £5 and selling costs) or £3000 whichever is the greater"

Obviously if she did sell the horse without your consent then there would be nothing that you could do to cancel the sale, however you would have sufficient evidence about the intent behind your contract to take her to court ensure that it would not be worth her while to sell behind your back.
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I think this has been proved several times here to be wrong. Others have found that similar carefully worded and signed agreements weren't worth the paper they were written on. Op, you need to either retain ownership (and if you loan be very careful to keep in contact and control) or recognise that if you aren't the owner you can't control the future of your horse.
 
Yertis said:
How about a 30 year lease @ 20p a year, that way you can put your conditions in the lease agreement, i.e. cannot be sold or transferred or move home without your agreement, you can only claim her back if not being kept to the agreed standard which is confirmed by a vet etc.
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I like this idea.. Sounds the best plan in theory. Anyone know where I could get idea for wording?
 
I think it should be possible but you need to do it properly, not justa home made agreement.

Speak to a law company.
Get a formal agreement made, then sign and have it witnessed.
 
In law, once you sell, you sell. That is why the nominal sum is taken to transfer ownership legally. Nothing else applies. I was going to buy a horse with a "caveat" - took legal advice, and once the money is paid, the old owner has NO right whatsoever.
 
The lease is the best option - you don't need a lawyer just think your wording through

[Your name ]and [her name] agree that [horse description ]should be leased to her name for a maximum term of 30 years for the payment of 20 pence per year. Should [her name] ever wish to terminate this lease then she has the right to do so by returning the horse to party a and after x weeks notice. All vets fees (list everything your friend should be responsible for) will be the sole responsibility of her name for the duration of the lease. [your name] remains the legal owner of the horse and has the right to terminate the lease should the well being of the horse be suffering though neglect.

Signed


You. Her


Something like that - as long as its clear English in a small civil matter like this it will be fine.
 
Yertis said:
How about a 30 year lease @ 20p a year, that way you can put your conditions in the lease agreement, i.e. cannot be sold or transferred or move home without your agreement, you can only claim her back if not being kept to the agreed standard which is confirmed by a vet etc.
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this sounds like a good idea - something that can be in writing, you retain ownership and friend gets peace of mind that the horse wont be whipped away at any given moment
 
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