help so horse has become a little b@st@rd to lead out

Maddie2412

Maddie2412

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i have to keep him on full livery as can only get to him 3 days a week and have been told he has got worse and worse to lead out. Used to be a dope on a rope now getting wilder and wilder and rears ALOT when being led out (not in) regardless of wether he's living out or in its quite a walk to the field down a track and at the beginning he rears straight up and spins in on the leader before pi$$ing off bucking and kicking out so fa people have had to let go 4 times and he is just waiting calmly by his field gate to be re-caught and let in.
He hater poll pressure so cant use a pressure halter and we have been reluctant to try a chiffney as he goes up so fast i dont want to rip his mouth apart.
He also hasnt done it with me just with the YO and the boy who works there any of you have any ideas??????? In all other ways on the ground he is a perfect gentleman but now at a loss as people cant hold on and he's running around with leadrope trailing behind...!!!

roast chic on offer!
 
Clearly he has learnt that he can do it, so unless you break the cycle he will keep doing it.

Try two people holding him with lunge reins but I would personally use a chifney or a bridle and NEVER let anyone turn him out without it. People handling him MUST wear hats and gloves and NOT let go of him.

It will not take long before the rest of his behaviour will start degenerating.
 
Hmmm
I had a 2yr old on box rest for colic surgery a few years ago - but the vets helpfully suggested I walk her in hand, but should 'ensure she doesn't buck or rear to burst her stitches'. Easier said than done.
My technique was to walk her out, then if she misbehaved, to take her straight back and put her in an empty stable for 10 mins. Then try again. It took perseverance, especially when she was well enough to go to a grass paddock, but every time she was naughty, I took her back to the box, and started the journey again.
She did learn that you get to the grass more quickly if you behave than if you don't...
Once your boy reaches the field gate (having run away from handlers) I'd take him straight back to the stable, and repeat the process until he behaves. Wear a hat, gloves, etc, and lead in a lunge line or longer line.
Good luck.
S :D
 
Have you tried a western style rope halter? I think they're a godsend and use them on all manner of "naughty" horses, from exciteable youngsters to a reluctant loader. I'd always try one of these before resorting to a chifney.

The rope gives you more control than conventional webbing or leather headcollars because it's thinner.

Also get a longer leadrope (12ft or similar) so if he's less likely to whip it out of your hands.
 
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Why not just nip this behaviour in the bud and use a chiffeny. I dont know why people think that this bit will break a horses jaw, used correctly it is a very useful tool for this sort of behaviour. Rearing in hand is dangerous and it seems like he is taking the p$ss.
 
lionman said:
Why not just nip this behaviour in the bud and use a chiffeny. I dont know why people think that this bit will break a horses jaw, used correctly it is a very useful tool for this sort of behaviour. Rearing in hand is dangerous and it seems like he is taking the p$ss.
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Presumably because the OP cannot guarantee it is used correctly on the occaisions she can't be there. She says that horse behaves for her and only does this for YO and boy. In the wrong hands they can cause damage.
 
lionman said:
Why not just nip this behaviour in the bud and use a chiffeny. I dont know why people think that this bit will break a horses jaw, used correctly it is a very useful tool for this sort of behaviour. Rearing in hand is dangerous and it seems like he is taking the p$ss.
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Thats all very well in experienced hands - but the numpty YO and the helper sound FAR from experienced IMO. Wouldn't let them lead my dog out for a piddle frankly.

Think if he is only doing it when you are not there then it has to be something to do with inappropriate handling/leading by others. Change of livery yard perhaps - before the horse is completely ruined?
 
grumpyoldmare said:
Thats all very well in experienced hands - but the numpty YO and the helper sound FAR from experienced IMO. Wouldn't let them lead my dog out for a piddle frankly.

Think if he is only doing it when you are not there then it has to be something to do with inappropriate handling/leading by others. Change of livery yard perhaps - before the horse is completely ruined?
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If the YO is incapable of leading a horse to a field without having to whine to the owner that she keeps having to let go of the horse, then she clearly is not the right person to be in charge of a yard and I would look elsewhere for someone more competent to look after my horse. Never heard such a load of rubbish!
 
Hello, it's a problem for you - especially if your yard manager clearly doesn't have the level of competence to deal with this!

I suggest a Chifney too. If you use it properly, you won't break his jaw and you will gain control. If you unsure about starting with it, get an experienced friend or instructor to show you how.

Key is to be firm and in control. Gloves, hat etc.

When I was having problems with my mare (all now resolved) being taken out to, and brought in from the field we used a chifney. At the beginning I put a headcollar on first, then the chifney on top. Then I could lead up to the field on the chifney (past the problem areas), then switch the leadrope to the headcollar so that I could safely take the chifney off while staying in control.

Put the chifney in and keeping a short rope ask your horse to walk forward. Before he goes loopy on you he will no doubt try to wave his head, or pull forward faster than you wish. At this point you will have the opportunity to correct him with a firm (but not vicious) tug on the leadrope. This will let him know that you have a different and better control. Don't be afraid to use it - you have to be in charge. Keep the leadrope short and be in control. It will work.

Then..... the staff turning him out must stick to your rules too. It's no good you sorting this out, then them letting him trash about. Not only does it cause you problems, but it's dangerous for you and them.

Good luck, I know how difficult this can be but honestly it is sortable.
 
If you can lead the horse out without incident and the YO can't, you need to find a more competent YO before there is a serious accident and your horse is injured or worse.
 
scrunchie said:
Have you tried a western style rope halter? I think they're a godsend and use them on all manner of "naughty" horses, from exciteable youngsters to a reluctant loader. I'd always try one of these before resorting to a chifney.

The rope gives you more control than conventional webbing or leather headcollars because it's thinner.

Also get a longer leadrope (12ft or similar) so if he's less likely to whip it out of your hands.
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/\/\/\/\ this
 
lydia_markwick said:
i have to keep him on full livery as can only get to him 3 days a week and have been told he has got worse and worse to lead out. Used to be a dope on a rope now getting wilder and wilder and rears ALOT when being led out (not in) regardless of wether he's living out or in its quite a walk to the field down a track and at the beginning he rears straight up and spins in on the leader before pi$$ing off bucking and kicking out so fa people have had to let go 4 times and he is just waiting calmly by his field gate to be re-caught and let in.
He hater poll pressure so cant use a pressure halter and we have been reluctant to try a chiffney as he goes up so fast i dont want to rip his mouth apart.
He also hasnt done it with me just with the YO and the boy who works there any of you have any ideas??????? In all other ways on the ground he is a perfect gentleman but now at a loss as people cant hold on and he's running around with leadrope trailing behind...!!

roast chic on offer!
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To be fair, he's only a ba@&;rd with them, not you. So they are doing something wrong. Whatever is suggested won't work if the YO and staff haven't the confidence or ability to apply it correctly.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If you can lead the horse out without incident and the YO can't, you need to find a more competent YO before there is a serious accident and your horse is injured or worse.
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I agree with this and the more he does it the more likely he is to try it on with you.

Personally I would not use a Tchiffney but would use a chain across his nose and a lunge attached to the chain, I would also carry a length of plastic hose pipe and when he went up the first thing I would do is to rap him hard across the back legs with the hose, this is attacking his only means of support and it frightens them.
It is to be expected that when he comes down he will want to charge off so I would be ready for that and he would get such a jerk across the nose that he would think he had run into a brick wall.

I know that people will not like this but if it is a matter of safety then I will show a horse that I have the means to make it think and respect me.
None of the above would cause him any harm, just a short sharp lesson. Better that than a serious accident.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I agree with this and the more he does it the more likely he is to try it on with you.

Personally I would not use a Tchiffney but would use a chain across his nose and a lunge attached to the chain, I would also carry a length of plastic hose pipe and when he went up the first thing I would do is to rap him hard across the back legs with the hose, this is attacking his only means of support and it frightens them.
It is to be expected that when he comes down he will want to charge off so I would be ready for that and he would get such a jerk across the nose that he would think he had run into a brick wall.

I know that people will not like this but if it is a matter of safety then I will show a horse that I have the means to make it think and respect me.
None of the above would cause him any harm, just a short sharp lesson. Better that than a serious accident.
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OMG! and you wouldnt use a chiffeny? What a load of bollox. Oh and dangerous. With a chiffeny there would be no need for pipes, hitting or chains across the nose. I dont respect you or your ridiculous methods of control.
 
blazingsaddles said:
To be fair, he's only a ba@&;rd with them, not you. So they are doing something wrong. Whatever is suggested won't work if the YO and staff haven't the confidence or ability to apply it correctly.
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Can you ask to watch them handle him? Then you could point out if you do something differently? Are they holding him roughly or too tight? are they nervous and your horse is reacting to that? It sounds like theres definately something different going on
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I agree with this and the more he does it the more likely he is to try it on with you.

Personally I would not use a Tchiffney but would use a chain across his nose and a lunge attached to the chain, I would also carry a length of plastic hose pipe and when he went up the first thing I would do is to rap him hard across the back legs with the hose, this is attacking his only means of support and it frightens them.
It is to be expected that when he comes down he will want to charge off so I would be ready for that and he would get such a jerk across the nose that he would think he had run into a brick wall.

I know that people will not like this but if it is a matter of safety then I will show a horse that I have the means to make it think and respect me.
None of the above would cause him any harm, just a short sharp lesson. Better that than a serious accident.
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Interesting approach!! I doubt if the YO/helper would have the co-ordination required to execute this manouvre if they can't even lead the horse to the field!!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If you can lead the horse out without incident and the YO can't, you need to find a more competent YO before there is a serious accident and your horse is injured or worse.
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Ditto this and sooner rather than later. It certainly does sound as though your horse has learned how to get away from the leader and this habit needs to be stopped pronto
 
A difficult one...

As a YO I currently have 2 ex race horses in who can be very feisty to lead in and out. One will rear and attempt to spin unless I have him on a very short rein, and must admit has un-nerved me a couple of times. To make the problem worse neither can cope with being separated so have to be led together, so not fun if they both play up at the same time! They do mis-behave for their owner too, which although makes me feel better, also frustrates me as she has not attempted to curb this behaviour, which in turn affects my safety.

My immediate reaction was not to blame the YO - horses are not machines and can be un predictable, but equally if the horse behaves with you there must be something/someone unsettling him.

I would in the first instance observe how he behaves with them, as you may spot something they are doing differently which might be worrying the horse. As you can't use a pressure halter on him, I would then advise they lead him in a bridle with lunge line, wearing gloves and a hat.

As a matter of interest in what order are the horses turned out? For example I find that if I turn out the ex racers first and get them in first, they are easier to handle as are not getting frustrated watching other horses going out/coming in before them.

Also is he turned out with others as may be keen to get to his buddies and not left behind? If this was the case I would be tempted to lead him out with a field companion which may settle him more.

Good luck and let us know how you progress.
 
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My horse is awful to lead in hand and I use a Be Nice headcollar, but none of the staff at any of the yards I have been at have complained. I think they would have more pride in their ability to handle horses.

There was one yard I was at before where the YO used to intone "that horse is dangerous" about the mare I sold to a 15 yo child (ie not in the slightest bit dangerous) and although the yard is almost next door to me, I simply refuse to keep a horse there as the YO isn't capable of handling all but the most docile horses. I would move your horse to another yard.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I agree with this and the more he does it the more likely he is to try it on with you.

Personally I would not use a Tchiffney but would use a chain across his nose and a lunge attached to the chain, I would also carry a length of plastic hose pipe and when he went up the first thing I would do is to rap him hard across the back legs with the hose, this is attacking his only means of support and it frightens them.
It is to be expected that when he comes down he will want to charge off so I would be ready for that and he would get such a jerk across the nose that he would think he had run into a brick wall.

I know that people will not like this but if it is a matter of safety then I will show a horse that I have the means to make it think and respect me.
None of the above would cause him any harm, just a short sharp lesson. Better that than a serious accident.
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Oh how nice - a real horse expert. Gosh you are tough aren't you?:rolleyes: What a total load of old bull - your knowledge of how to deal with difficult horses could be written on the back of a postage stamp then?
 
How experienced are the handlers? Chifney (also clipped onto headcollar) and experienced handler would be my way forward, you have to break the cycle. I'd be tempted to use a long lead rope as opposed to a lunge rope as I am not a fan of them pissing about on the end of a lunge rope in a chifney but if needs must!
To add- if you can find livery yard staff willing to try and handle a horse, faff about hitting its back legs and all that, I'd be surprised. Firm, consistant handling is required, not novel ways to punish the horse..
 
Likewise, ask to be present when the YO or lad is leading your horse (preferrably, don't let your horse know you've arrived at the yard and watch from a distance!)

Likelihood is or was, that the YO/lad didn't nip the horses' attempt at legging it in the bud which you may have done, subconsciously.... and now your horse knows he can get away with it, with them.

I bet you, if mid rear you popped out from nowhere, your horse would get the shock of his life!!

I'd definately go down the Chiffney route. If the YO/lad has never used one then explain.

One thing I was told many moons ago by some old horseman was that 'horses have to be responsible for their own actions'.

So if the lad is walking along with your horse wearing the chifney and horsey rears and hurts his mouth, then it's his fault not the leaders (if the leader did nothing but hold on)
 
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