Help! Unresponsive horse and utterly useless rider!

Maia

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Have aquired a 6YO about 2 months ago who has done relatively little - loads of hacking and some PC/RC stuff and some "schooling". Problem is he is totally dead to the leg and I get the impression has got away with doing things in his own time and his own rate for far too long.

Wondered how much of the issue is me so got a mate to video me riding my own horses, her horse and this one and I have now spotted an additional problem...

On my own and my mates horses they are off my leg so I only need to ask once and I get a response. Consequently I have a good contact, stable leg, am sitting up and sat on my seat correctly.

On this new boy it all goes hideously wrong (though is OK out hacking incidently according to my friend). In the video the horse simply ignores my aids first and second time of asking, resulting in a wallop/growl/boot which then gets the desired response and if not continues to get an increasingly hard wallop/growl/boot until I get what I ask for followed by praise. So that is problem one (which no amount of transitions seems to be helping with!).

Then, because the horse isn't forward and infront of my leg I am having to remind him to stay in gear I have put him in every 3-4 strides as he is always trying to slow back to walk. My riding ends up going completely to pot and and on the vids I fall into the horrendous trap of sh*gging the saddle, tipping onto the front of my pelvis and my lower leg coming up and back as I struggle to boot the damned thing hard enough and because I am having to use the stick a lot too my contact is also becoming rather hideous to look at - you can also see in the vids that once going forward I have the most pathetic of contacts for fear that the slightest reason to slow down (pressure on the reins) and the horse will do just that.

On my horses and even my mates horse which can be bone idle I do none of the above - I just struggle to get this horse forward and fall into a viscous trap of doing anything to get it to move at the expense of my own riding, which I'm sure is probably having a reverse effect to the one I want! I feel like I am at a RS on the most dead to the leg cob imagineable, not on a smart young TB!

What do I do? Horse has had everything checked, double checked and checked again - he is just a lazy sod that has got away with doing things his way for far too long. Have tried spurs with nothing but resistance and tbh, with some of the things my legs are doing I'm not sure they are a good idea anyway.

Have also tried millions of transitions, having someone on ground armed with lunge whip (even tried lunge whip with plastic carrier strapped to the end) polework, working with other horses in the arena, boxing to another arena and still no luck. Hacking he is much better and although not as infront of my leg as I'd like the damned thing is atleast forward!

HELP!!
 
I had the same problem with my Mums shire x tb gelding as he had got used to Mums 'busy legs' which had desensitised his sides and taught him to ignore the sensation.

I would recommend you stop using your legs for a while
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The reason being that I suspect the nerves in his sides are probably deadened and kicking will be ineffective so all your 'punishment and praise' methodology will not be educating him
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Instead get him responding to your voice (as if you are lunging him) and if he doesn't repond inititally give him a sharp twitch with a very flicky schooling whip (not a smack with a big flat xc whip) as you need to get him listening and wont be hitting him to punish him. I appreciate encouraging a horse to your respond to voice is not ideal and won't win you any prizes in a dressage competition, but at least it will mean you can concentrate on being balanced and teaching him the right way of going until his sides heal a bit
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Good luck
 
Should have said - have been using my voice but its like he's got cotton wool in ears and is going "lalala, can't hear you". Lunging after a few cracks (on floor!) with whip he is fine though
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Will try not using legs as much as possible though as it might suddenly be a shock to the system when I do start to put them on.

Will also try experimenting with different whips!
 
Feed is not the issue! If you could see the horse in the field or even out hacking you'd know he definately isn't lacking in energy - he is just a bone idle lazy sod when schooled...
 
ticks on my best tree hugger hat and suggests what about a whip whop?
Jut a soft length of roap that you carry like a whip and flip over fromside to side to encourage the horse forwards.
Visual aid they can work quite well on dead to the leg types.
That's it any remote forum cred I ever had has now gone
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2 schooling whips. Ask once nicely with the legs and a click, if no response, ask again and crack him one both sides with the whips. Repeat until you get desired response
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Don't fall into the trap of using your legs all the time, and be disciplined with yourself to make sure you don't fall into the "nagging" trap. Lots of transitions this way, and don't touch his mouth for the first couple of sessions, just work on lots of transitions, and positive reinforcement (lots of pats when he does whats asked
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[ QUOTE ]
...fair enough... just doesn't 'like' schooling then!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nail on head!

Alibear - will give that a go for sure!

KatB - will also try that too. And you're dead right about falling into a nagging trap which I think is half the battle.
 
Two schooling whips is exactly what I was going to suggest.

Use them every time he drops behind the leg, don't use your leg when he starts to slow just straight for the whip. If at first he rushes forward let him go as you need to praise the forward movement to begin with.
 
I have a delightful 'old' b/w book on schooling. The Welsh author used to specialize in maduns and baduns. His solution for the 'lazy' horse was to keep it stabled and feed 6 pounds of oats a day.
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I know i sound like a tree hugger
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, but i hate the 2 schooling whips idea, it's never worked for me & they get wise & some stubben types will revert back the second the whips go
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.

I had a very backwards thinking horse, it got better the more i lunged, not on circles using the whole school encouraging the horse very forward with a very over the top voice with lots of praise to go forward.
I also used clicker training under saddle & in hand, CTing really helped my backwards thinking horse more than anything else.
OK not very conventional & you may feel like an idiot
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but sometimes you have to think out of the box to get the rewards
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!!

With really behind the leg horses you have to forget totally about them being on a contact & just ride forward. As it's very easy to give a backwards aid with you hand by accident in trying to keep them on the bit & boot them forward at the same time.
Go back to basics for a bit!! Go in the school on a long rein & canter from one side to the other. If it was me i would give the horse a treat on reaching the other side, then i would make it into a game, they tend to catch on quick if it's fun & you make it fun sounding with your voice.

Ok the weirdo is leaving forum again now
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... BTW im not a tree hugger
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!!
I just had a big problem horse, being behind the leg was just one of his many problems. Im glad to say there all in the past now.
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I also feel your pain, as I have a lazy pony when schooling, and it is nigh on impossible to ride him effectively without kicking/flapping/growling/generally looking like a crazed idiot. Even very experienced, good riders tell me that when they ride Murphy they feel their position go to pot, and they just can't make it look pretty! I doubt very much that you are a useless rider!

Something that has really helped me recently has been taking away my stirrups (this prohibits my usually required level of kicking and flapping because I'd lose my balance), and using clear voice commands. He knows my voice commands anyway, so he gets a couple of chances to respond, then gets a firm smack with the schooling whip. It gave him something new to focus on and kept his attention, and got me to not rely on my legs.

Another thing that has worked for me has been counting a rhythm in trot out loud, it seems to help him maintain his rhythm.

Oh - and lots of transitions within trot have helped too.

Basically my pony thinks he's very clever and schooling is way too easy and boring and not worth bothering with, so I have to constantly think of new things for him to learn to keep his attention.

All that said, mine still has days when he ignores my legs, spurs, whip, voice, flapping reins etc...and on those days it's juts not worth the battle so I give up and go for a hack.
 
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