Help! Weight gain feed which wont blow his brain and a good calmer

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Racing_Gal

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I'm trying to find a feed that will put wieght on/ keep wieght on, but will not make my boy crazy! I have to be really careful what I fed him, (even a handful of herbi-chop sends him loopy) I really need to get some weight on him asap.

We also need a good calmer, I think different calmers work in different ways, on different horses but it would be good to hear your experiences of the different ones available.

Just a bit of background on the lad, he's 15.2hh, Dutch WB, 14yro, he's had allot of time off due to a back problem and were now getting to the stage where I can think about getting back on him, atm he is eatting only grass (due to not been in work), lives out 247 (this will not change until winter when he will be in at night), even on grass alone he is totally hypa! He has to canter everywhere, the other horses walk from one point in the field to another, he waits til they get there then canters/ gallops/bucks etc after them, he sees me come to catch him, he canters up to me, bucking and what not... and the boy's had a bad back, wonder why?!

Anyway, any advice on feed and a good clamer that wont break the bank would be very welcome :)
 
Have you tried Calm and Condition? You have to add water for about 10 minutes before they eat it, but they only need a bit of chop in it and nothing else in it.
 
Wheat feed... ie Bailey's number 1 is the branded one I know of, but I get mine from local grain merchant at fraction of cost. Puts weight on beautifully, have not had probs with loopiness. But oil in vast quantities (Linseed, or sunflower as 2nd choice..) is also brilliant. Ad lib hay... regular worming... teeth done? Just checking! I'm sure you have done these things... (might be worth an egg count to be sure??) ALSO I fully recommend magnesium as a calmer to use every day. My vet tells me epsom salts work just as well as the expensive 5* MAGIC I'm feeding my warmblood - I may as well feed him £5 notes at the moment, wait til the current tub runs out!
If feeding up doesn't work, speak to your vet, maybe need blood tests/advice to rule out an endocrine/metabolic disorder. I also like haylage for putting weight on - good suppliers will have had analysis done so you can have the less heating varieties.
 
Just had a look at Calm and Condition, looks the kind of thing we're after, may give that ago.

I didnt know epsom salts were used as a calmer, will definatley try that one! He's wormed upto date, teeth were done last month, I may as well be feeding him £20 notes at the minute! I can only feed him haylage if he comes in as he gets bullied in the field and isnt allowed to share! Maybe I should bring him in for a few hours a day to let him have a munch...the only problem then is that is wont settle on his own so I would have to bring one of the others in with him = more haylage, bedding, time and mucking out, but looks like Ill just have to get on with it! Horses, nothing is ever easy!
 
For the weight gain without blowing the mind would highly recommend Bailey's Outsine, v v high oil content so slow release energy. Has made an absolute world of difference to my girl who was starting to show results within 2 weeks and now 2 months later looks like an entirely different horse.

Will say it is not the cheapest but the results more than make up for the price roughly £35 per sack.
 
Calm and Condition is mostly sugar beet so cheaper to feed sugar beet :)

I would suggest high fibre feeds, ad lib forage - keep him off high grain feeds with high levels of barley - so most mixes...

I feed Countrywide Conditioning Nuts - don't cost a fortune than branded feeds, their main ingredient is wheatfeed which is conditioning but not brightening!

There are so many calmers on the market, it really is trial and error as to which is the most successful - I have used different ones with varying degrees of success on a variety of horses - I've found the most effective (and the most expensive) is Nupafeed, the 2nd best is HorseFirst Relax Me - not stupidly expensive to use as a tub lasts quite a long time. I tried the Magnitude which is meant to last 6 months for about £20 - didn't have any effect at all.

Interestingly, since magnesium is involved in cell metabolism, it is used when horses are exercised (or excercise themselves!) A symptom of Mg deficiency in horses is that they can be stressy and excitable, nervy or spooky

Sounds like your boy has naturally high levels of energy - he will probably be more settled once you can get him in more work - he's probably bored in the field and making his own amusement - hence why he needs more condition - he's using it all up!
 
He's always been a bit loopy! Ive had him 6 years now so like to think I know him well. I can tell he is bored because he never used to mess about this much in the field and he does like to work, but even in work he's a handfull and the fitter he gets, the more excitable he is! He's just a happy little horse who likes to play but after all this time off Im worried about him hurting himself (or me!).

So a Mg defiency could make him hypa, I didnt know that, you learn something new everyday! ..actaully thats 2 new things Ive learn on this post!! Thanks HHOers!

So do we all agree on feeding epsom salts? I've read it can cause diarrhea if you feed to much, but other than that is there anything else I should know?

:)
 
Racing_Gal said:
Just had a look at Calm and Condition, looks the kind of thing we're after, may give that ago.

I didnt know epsom salts were used as a calmer, will definatley try that one! He's wormed upto date, teeth were done last month, I may as well be feeding him £20 notes at the minute! I can only feed him haylage if he comes in as he gets bullied in the field and isnt allowed to share! Maybe I should bring him in for a few hours a day to let him have a munch...the only problem then is that is wont settle on his own so I would have to bring one of the others in with him = more haylage, bedding, time and mucking out, but looks like Ill just have to get on with it! Horses, nothing is ever easy!
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One of my horses refused to eat calm and condition - also check out the actual ingredients - if you are on a budget, you may be able to source them individually. Can't see on A&P website, but i bet it contains wheat feed!
Epsom salts = magnesium sulfate. Magnesium is the active ingredient in pretty much every "calmer" on the market - look at a tub to find what rate you should be feeding at, and give that in his dinner in the form of epsom salts. I like to add Mint (Global Herbs, or Cash & Carry to the catering trade if on a budget!) to disguise the taste. Works on my nutty warmblood (but not on his seperation anxiety) and OH's morgans - and they are (or were) NUTS!
Bullying in field - piles of haylage = number of horses + 1 or 2...? Although I wouldn't want to feed all my lot haylage all at once - ££! Don't feed molasses licks btw.. Also unmolassed sugarbeet works (speedibeet).
Try a stable mirror for settling alone?
Didn't mean to sound like I was suggesting you don't worm your horse, its just one of the obvious ones that sometimes gets overlooked.. (and faulty batches / horses spitting it out :-) has been known to happen!)
Good luck getting weight on though - my boy worries his condition off - travelling he goes from plump to whippet over the course of a journey, but the MgSO4 has really helped this, including shots of "instant Magic" prior to competing/travelling. You may find that once on a regular dose of MgSO4, he keeps weight on much better anyway.
 
crockshard- I will definatley try epsom salts. On the haylage side of things, I have a mare who is a total cow when it comes to hay in the field, she hates Jack (horse in question) with a passion, she makes it her mission to ensure he does get his own pile, no matter how many there are! I worry about them getting hurt so I dont put hay down usless one of them is in the stable. I also have a Sec A who I would worry about as he's fit to burst as it is! It would work out ok for Jack and the Sec A to come in for a few hours a day though, Jack can have his haylage in piece, with company and Sec A can have some 'sheep' hay and it will get him of the grass for a while :)

Thanks for your help everyone!

Now I'm rambling! :)
 
Grassnuts are brilliant for weight gain without fizz.
Be careful with Epsom salts, they are not a particularly good source of dietary magnesium, except in large quantities BUT they are a laxative, even in small quantities.
 
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I haven't actually tried using epsom salts - just that my ( specialist equine) vet told me I was wasting my money on that expensive supplement when the equivalent dose of MgSO4 would work just as well, bought in epsom salt form... Blame him! Yes, I'd imagine diarrhoea could result if you fed the wrong quantities! Looking at some of the supplements, it seems its calcined magnesite, which is also used for cattle and sheep to prevent hypomagnesemia (aka Staggers). Can also use it as a top dressing on pasture for the same purpose. we had a bullock die with staggers once.. not nice.
I suppose the safest way to feed in in an approved supplement. I will interrogate my vet next time I see him! ;-)
 
Would definately recommend Allen and Page's Calm and Condition my horse loves it. He was previously on Baileys Build Up cubes which sent him loopy.
 
I think I may give C & C a try :)

What do you think to giving Mg tablets in feed? One of my clients uses them on her hunter, she says they dont really make a different but she only give him one tablet a day, which is what a human would take so I cant see that been enough for a 500kg horse!
 
Letslip said:
For the weight gain without blowing the mind would highly recommend Bailey's Outsine, v v high oil content so slow release energy. Has made an absolute world of difference to my girl who was starting to show results within 2 weeks and now 2 months later looks like an entirely different horse.

Will say it is not the cheapest but the results more than make up for the price roughly £35 per sack.
Click to expand...

I was going to recommend Outshine. I fed it to mum's horse Woody who's a very poor doer with arthritis, navicular, laminitis and COPD! Mum agreed, when she took him home again, that he was looking the best she'd ever seen him :) I don't think she feeds it to him though due to the price :(
 
Another vote for Baileys Outshine. Could see a difference within a week and no fizz! (Previously fed conditioning feed, and horse actually lost weight as was so wound up.)
 
We actually feed Outshine to the ex racehorses who come out of training looking poor, its great stuff, will give try it on my lad :)
 
Spillers conditioning cubes worked for my boy who is intolerant of most things. I have to avoid all things that have even a sniff of sugar beet in them as it drives him loopy. I also have to avoid carrots like the plague. They send him scatty.

I used umpteen different calmers but what worked best for me is Cal Mag. You can buy it off ebay but I buy it from the local sheep feed merchant and its only £13 for a 25kg sack. Seeing as how he gets 2 10ml spoonfuls a day its pretty cost effective:D

Steer clear of the epsom salts. They are not as effective and can have an adverse affect on the gut. Cal mag or MagOx is a much better choice.
 
Hi,

I tried calm and condition but made no difference. I have just started using spillers conditioning mix and all I can say its brilliant!! I noticed a differnce within 2weeks and hasnt fizzed him at all unlike some of the others ive tried.
 
Racing_Gal said:
Just had a look at Calm and Condition, looks the kind of thing we're after, may give that ago.

I didnt know epsom salts were used as a calmer, will definatley try that one! He's wormed upto date, teeth were done last month, I may as well be feeding him £20 notes at the minute! I can only feed him haylage if he comes in as he gets bullied in the field and isnt allowed to share! Maybe I should bring him in for a few hours a day to let him have a munch...the only problem then is that is wont settle on his own so I would have to bring one of the others in with him = more haylage, bedding, time and mucking out, but looks like Ill just have to get on with it! Horses, nothing is ever easy!
Click to expand...

Calm and Condition sorted out mine when first ridden as a youngster.
 
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