Help with a total hay replacement diet please..

[Fiona]

I've already had some help from be positive, and pinkvboots in another thread, but here's the situation and I would appreciate as many suggestions as possible..

We have recently taken on a small late 20's pony for my 5yo over the summer because she is just the perfect pony to ride for a child off the lead rein (small, polite, jumps calmly, can be ridden in open field etc etc)...

However management is going to be an issue especially if she stays on into the winter months, as due to previous choke she is not allowed hay. Happened Jan 2016 btw and has existed happily on grass ever since.. SHe is turned out at the moment here.

She quids a bit though, so vet checked her teeth today, and they're fairly bad, with missing molars v pronounced wave etc He tidied them up a bit, but there wasn't much could be done, so the 'no hay' is definitely permanent rather than temporary.. She hasn't the teeth to chew it, and will def choke again according to vet.

She is underweight rather than overweight at present.

So far we have fed her soaked high fibre nuts and she can eat these fine. I can also get hold of copra if she needs extra weight going into colder weather. However if she is in at night over winter we need a hay substitute.

I've bought some A&P Fast Fibre and some readigrass.

Has anyone experience of feeding an aged horse/pony a non hay diet and can help me out with suggestions and tips..

Many thanks

Fiona

 

[fatpiggy]

I fed a pony in her late 30s through to 44 on a hay-free diet. She was out 24/7 (not my choice) and did well on the grass. In the winter she had soaked hi-fibre nuts, sugar beet and coolmix with some grated apples and carrots. She had lost a great many teeth and apart from her front nippers, all the remaining ones were flat to the gumline but she did absolutely fine on this diet. I always weighed the feed dry so that I knew what she was getting. In fact, she did so well on it that come the spring I used to have to slim her down a bit prior to the grass coming through.

 

[_HP_]

I took on an elderly, underweight pony that couldnt eat hay and he survived quite happily on a diet of soaked grass nuts, high fibres nuts and mollichaff calmer which is very fine with added micronised linseed

 

[TelH]

One of my older ones goes through winter on speedibeet, soaked hifibre cubes and hifi molasses free, with a splash of extra oil in. He can chew the hifi molasses free ok but has problems with chewing hay. (He does get regular dental care). He is out in the day and in at night through winter and I split his ration into 4 feeds.

You may also find some feeding advice on the veteran horse welfare website.

 

[JillA]

My 34 year old dentally challenged mare did reasonably well on unmollassed beet pulp (Equibeet is loads cheaper than Speedybeet if you need to feed a lot) grass pellets and micronized linseed, with whatever grass she could manage (which wasn't much). These days I also use Rowan & Barbary Ready Fibre Mash (which is soya hulls basically) and bran, all of which are palatable and won't break the bank to feed in quantity.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We kept an aged dentally challenged pony going well on soaked Dodson and Horrell 16+ cubes. We started him on two feeds a day, rising to up to six feeds daily (min 3 hour gap between meals).

Like your pony, the vet did what he could with his remaining teeth (under sedation). He happily chewed grass but then spat it out.

He was about 42 when eventually pts, still sound and bright but he got very thin at the end. He'd have been around 40 in this pic, we had him for his last six years. Lovely pony, still miss him.



Good luck with yours, these oldies have so much to offer.

 

[OWLIE185]

My oldie was fed on Hi-Fi Lite, Bran, Lo-Cal, Linseed, Formula4Feet and Cod Liver Oil. Well soaked.

 

[Fiona]

Thanks all so much for the advice, and for not telling me that I'm mad.

Specially interested to hear that she might be able to chew short fibre even if she cant eat hay.

Where do you all buy linseed from?

Also buying her a rug tonight as there's no point her shivering her food off...

Fiona

 

[YorksG]

We have used soaked grass nuts for older horses with tooth problems. We also used veteran and Baileys (can't remember the number, but it is their veteran mix) all well mixed with sugar beet, she did will on it for quite some time.

 

[Fiona]

I've just bought her a ruggles pony rug (she's only size 4'3" the wee pet) as its rained all afternoon Hopefully if she feels warm her feed will do a better job..

Off outside in a wee minute to bring her in for a feed and to dry off for an hour.. Will give her high fibre nuts and fast fibre this time. See if she likes the fast fibre.

I think I could get grass nuts yorkG if I needed to..

Fiona

 

[_HP_]

I get my linseed from here....

http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/pr...-and-performance/micronised-linseed-20kg.html

 

[Fiona]

I get my linseed from here....

http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/pr...-and-performance/micronised-linseed-20kg.html

Thanks

They would charge me 12.99 for delivery through DPD I'll have a search later for somewhere local, or get the copperstance copra as I know I can get it fairly local

Fiona

 

[sheep]

Whereabouts are you Fiona? Are you anywhere near the A1? Jim McCoosh in Dromore stocks it.

 

[Fiona]

I'm 20min from Dromore Not heard of him though. Will consult Google Thanks. .

Fiona

 

[Toffee44]

Coolstance copra is brilliant stuff.

Anything in the poor doer catergory should be on this feed. It has changed so mant horses I know.

 

[Zipzop]

Thunderbrook hay cobs - soaked

 

[Fiona]

Coolstance copra is brilliant stuff.

Anything in the poor doer catergory should be on this feed. It has changed so mant horses I know.

Thats good to know toffee Is it palatable? It looks a bit strange, but as all her food will be soaked, I guess that doesn't matter..

Fiona

 

[Meredith]

Thats good to know toffee Is it palatable? It looks a bit strange, but as all her food will be soaked, I guess that doesn't matter..

Fiona

I agree it works really well. Introduce it VERY slowly, I used a tablespoon full at a time, as it apparently has a strong flavour. My horse, not elderly but not a 'great-do-er', has never looked as well after winter as she has this year.
I am sure with all these suggestions you will find a way to manage the feed and keep him well.

 

[Fiona]

I agree it works really well. Introduce it VERY slowly, I used a tablespoon full at a time, as it apparently has a strong flavour. My horse, not elderly but not a 'great-do-er', has never looked as well after winter as she has this year.
I am sure with all these suggestions you will find a way to manage the feed and keep him well.

Thanks for the tip

Fiona

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

Don't worry, it's perfectly doable!! I took on a retired riding school pony last winter who is in his 30's and has no grinding surface left to his teeth. He was very thin and had no energy and his top speed was "snail pace"!
He can manage to get some grass down him but hay is a total no no. I feed him Simple Systems Haycare which is basically hay in cube form, soaked and mixed with a few handfuls of high fibre cubes. He gets a small tub trug split into two buckets when he comes in at tea time and then he gets a large tub trug full split into 3 buckets at 10pm when I do last check. I place them round his pen/stable so he has different "grazing" choice! He is now a real chunky monkey (in fact I've cut his tea time bucketful to half as he is rather porky!)
He now canters round the field like a man half his age!! It's lovely to see!
(He also has cushings, a heart murmur, only partial sight & a tumour behind one eye but apart from all that he's fine, )!!

 

[Toffee44]

Didnt introduce that slowly. Just did a few days 1/2 stubb then full stubb (wet)

Have 4 poor doers/ elderly on it on yard no one refuses it

 

[Fiona]

Don't worry, it's perfectly doable!! I took on a retired riding school pony last winter who is in his 30's and has no grinding surface left to his teeth. He was very thin and had no energy and his top speed was "snail pace"!
He can manage to get some grass down him but hay is a total no no. I feed him Simple Systems Haycare which is basically hay in cube form, soaked and mixed with a few handfuls of high fibre cubes. He gets a small tub trug split into two buckets when he comes in at tea time and then he gets a large tub trug full split into 3 buckets at 10pm when I do last check. I place them round his pen/stable so he has different "grazing" choice! He is now a real chunky monkey (in fact I've cut his tea time bucketful to half as he is rather porky!)
He now canters round the field like a man half his age!! It's lovely to see!
(He also has cushings, a heart murmur, only partial sight & a tumour behind one eye but apart from all that he's fine, )!!

Thank you so much. What a lovely story

Thats good to know toffee..

Fiona

 

[poiuytrewq]

Out of interest does it cost a fortune to keep a horse like this?

 

[JillA]

At that age I would be wary of feeds with high sugar or starch content (including copra) because at that age he would be very likely to be cushingoid and have associated IR. Go instead for protein to keep his muscles and soft tissue strong.

 

[JillA]

Out of interest does it cost a fortune to keep a horse like this?

Depends - mine wasn't too bad but compared to the average equine who can live well on grass in summer, yes, it does cost more. Equibeet is relatively cheap but cereals are out due to the starch content (see above) so mainly it is processed feeds, and oils or linseed.

 

[Fiona]

At that age I would be wary of feeds with high sugar or starch content (including copra) because at that age he would be very likely to be cushingoid and have associated IR. Go instead for protein to keep his muscles and soft tissue strong.

The copra would probably be a last resort if she wasn't holding weight through the winter on present ration, but I'll do more reading up on it to be sure.

Fiona

 

[supsup]

I had an old mare very similar. I fed her all through winter on a mixture of soaked hi fibre cubes, alfalfa cubes and grass nuts. I fed approximately 2% of bodyweight that way (she was a ~200kg Welsh A mare, about 4kg feed by dry weight, in at least 3 meals).
I found the hi fibre cubes really useful because they crumble and soften quickly, and don't need as much water to soften (compared to e.g. beet). This meant that the buckets stayed smaller in size, and were easier to finish in a reasonable amount of time.This mare still lived with the rest of the herd, and was pulled out a couple of times a day for her buckets, so time to finish eating was a consideration. The Alfalfa pellets also soak reasonably quickly, grass nuts take longer (and seemed less palatable to her). I used Spillers Layoff cubes rather than their Hi Fibre cubes. It's virtually the same product, just slightly higher starch content (12 vs. 10%) and added yea-sacc in the Layoff cubes. The layoff cubes come in larger bags (25kg vs. 20kg), so you save some money per kg.
These days, I think I'd have a closer look at the hay cobs sold by www.kramer.co.uk as an affordable option to provide soaked short-chop hay. I never really liked feeding quite so much of the layoff cubes and alfalfa pellets - the cubes are fortified, and I was feeding more than the RDA (so over-supplying some minerals), and feeding alfalfa in large proportion really throws out the mineral balance (high in calcium). I would have preferred to have more plain hay in the mix. But in the end, I figured sub-optimal mineral levels were not likely to make much of a difference for the last few years of the mares life (and they didn't).

 

[southerncomfort]

I have a 27 year old cushingoid mare who has very few teeth and can't eat hay. This year she is even struggling with the grass which is a nightmare as she is a very poor doer. She is also a very picky eater and will enjoy something for a few weeks and then point blank refuse to eat it.

Feeds that I've found work well soaked down to a slop: Hi Fibre nuts, Fast Fibre, Alfabeet (as long as their is no sensitivity to alfalfa). For extra calories we've used: Veteran Vitality, Calm & Condition (emergency measure, not really suitable for cushings ponies), Top Spec Cool Condition Cubes and Rowan Barberry Solution mash (she doesn't really like this but I somehow manage to hide it in amongst the other stuff). We tried Copra and she refused to even contemplate putting it anywhere near her mouth!

The only other thing that I've found really useful is Hi Fi Senior as it is shorter chopped and really soft.

Lots of luck.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Depends - mine wasn't too bad but compared to the average equine who can live well on grass in summer, yes, it does cost more. Equibeet is relatively cheap but cereals are out due to the starch content (see above) so mainly it is processed feeds, and oils or linseed.

Ok thank you, I am struggling a bit with a horse who is fat on fresh air. I want him in a bit but he has an awful dust allergy so hay is a no-go. Haylage is firstly a bit rocket fuel like for him but secondly just go's off before I use it.
How long can you keep them munching!?

 

[laura_nash]

I am struggling a bit with a horse who is fat on fresh air. I want him in a bit but he has an awful dust allergy so hay is a no-go. Haylage is firstly a bit rocket fuel like for him but secondly just go's off before I use it.

I have a "fat on fresh air" cob with a bad dust allergy. When I have him in (yarded not stabled) I use normal barley straw in hay pillows (trickle nets with the string shortened, fed off the floor). My vet told me they can have up to 50% of their daily forage as this so works well if they are still going out each day. They need to have okay teeth and access to plenty of water. I also use fast fibre, very well soaked hay in hay pillows (stops him putting his nose in the hay), and Timothy or high fibre small bag haylage (HorseHage or Devon Haylage). The last works really well (and normal haylage is a no-go for mine as gives him diarheoa and hives), but it is too expensive for me as a regular thing.