Help with analysing a BE record? Looking at buying the mare.

[ponyforever]

Hi

I am looking at buying a 16,1hh mare, I was looking up her British eventing record online, and I don't intend to event myself but I was slightly concerned by her record.

She is 10 and has done 5 events. One of her events she has 'E AR' and it looks as if she was elimanated for refusals on the xc - BE90. Then the next event 5 months later with the same rider, she was elimanated in the show jumping. It then looks like she had 20 xc faults at the next event, then was withdrawn from a BE100. Her first ever event was a BE80 where she went clear and finished 20th.

She was then sold to the people i'm thinking of buying her from, they've had her a year, they have taken her to one BE90 event in May where it says 'E CR', there is an E in the show jumping box and a 70.0 time. What would have happened for 'E CR' ?

any thoughts? I feel she may refuse a lot and she's a 3hr drive away so not sure I want to go and try her despite her sounding perfect on the phone ?

 

[wench]

E CR means accumulated refusals.

Can you put a link to her recored - wioll be easier to look at then

 

[measles]

That record would put me off if I am honest. She seems to have stopped a lot and while it is possible her rider was not too accomplished you might expect them not to have entered if they did not think they had a chance of at least completing. If you want her to do a job that does not involve jumping then fine but if you want to jump alarm bells would be ringing.

 

[sprite1978]

Accumulated refusals is E AR - The E CR is compulsary retirement. I`m not too sure as to why it would be compulsory. Maybe the judges felt that it was unsafe to continue, or blood injury etc.

 

[Jane_Lou]

CR is compulsory retirement, they were basically not allowed to continue. You may want to look on BDWP as well as sometimes there is more detail on the actual results on there than on BE. If there was 70 time and no jumping it sounds like a major napping episode in SJ. PM me the name of the horse if you want me to have a detailed look.

Based on what you have said, if depending in price, if you were looking for an eventer I would possibly not be driving 3 hours to look.

 

[sprite1978]

CR is compulsory retirement, they were basically not allowed to continue. You may want to look on BDWP as well as sometimes there is more detail on the actual results on there than on BE. If there was 70 time and no jumping it sounds like a major napping episode in SJ. PM me the name of the horse if you want me to have a detailed look.

Based on what you have said, if depending in price, if you were looking for an eventer I would possibly not be driving 3 hours to look.

Well spotted. The time penalties and CR does sound like a napping incident. The horse couldnt be given refusal faults if they havent been presented at a fence, so napping sounds the most likely.

 

[titch]

CR is compulsory retirement, in this case it sounds to me like the rider may have fallen off and exceeded twice the allowed time when getting back on, or a napping issue.

Have you looked to see if the rider has competed other horses successfully at that level? If so it would ring alarm bells to me

 

[Luci07]

You don't want to event but if you do want to do low level shows - mare had only shown form over 80 cm which she could trot over. Have a look at her riders record too and see if they have ridden anything else. Ask the owners for their view as well

And CR is not usual either!

 

[sprite1978]

CR is compulsory retirement, in this case it sounds to me like the rider may have fallen off and exceeded twice the allowed time when getting back on, or a napping issue.

Have you looked to see if the rider has competed other horses successfully at that level? If so it would ring alarm bells to me

In that case would a rider fall not show as E u2?

 

[titch]

In that case would a rider fall not show as E u2?

E U2 would be if the rider fell off twice

One fall is not elimination in itself, if you are fast at getting back on you will not be eliminated, I think for the fall alone it is 4 or 8 pens. But if you take a while getting back on, you can finish but will then have to 'compulsory retire' as you will have exceeded twice the allowed time for completing the course. You're not eliminated for the fall.

 

[dieseldog]

You also get E CR for having more than 5 fences down SJ, or is it 7?

 

[ponyforever]

Have you looked to see if the rider has competed other horses successfully at that level? If so it would ring alarm bells to me

The rider has only ridden at one BE event and that was on this mare.

Thanks, I think she's going to be too much of a risk, they're asking 6k for her.

Interestingly, the CR took place during show jumping not xc phase, the mare then didn't go xc from what I can tell.

Thanks

 

[The Amber Gambler]

This thread is quite interesting as my last horse sounds similar. For some reason the horse never took to SJ (was quite scared of poles moving/ following?!). At home he would be fine most of the time, XC he was fantastic and so brave yet SJ at a competition I was eliminated so many times!

However, the horse was fab with flatwork and would always perform a very good dressage test, was 100% to hack alone or company, clip, load etc and no vices!

My point is that although he had a bad record for jumping which would have been very off putting for a potential buyer and would never make an eventer/ sj, he was a great horse for someone to do dressage, hacking and day to day stuff.

I was very honest when I sold him and he has a fantastic home with someone who didn't want to jump, she is now going to affiliate him in dressage & loves him to bits, he is a very happy horse doing what he likes best, he is even being used to help teach someone to ride!

I would ask the owner about the BE record and hopefully they will be honest and you can make your decision from there. It could be a nightmare of a horse or one that could be just right for you.

Hope this comment was helpful.

 

[Joss]

6K oh my dear life - no touchy & barge pole spring to mind

 

[lisab]

I agree - 6 grand, no.

 

[kerilli]

it sounds as if she really didn't or doesn't want to jump. those are small fences and if ridden reasonably well, most genuine happy horses will jump that high willingly enough.
i'd be more worried about WHY she was accumulating that many refusals or a compulsory retirement. ime it's usually because the horse is uncomfortable for some reason, if reasonably ridden.
unless she's an absolute saint in every other way and you don't want to jump at all, i wouldn't waste your time and theirs. imho seriously overpriced with that sort of record i'm afraid.

 

[Leg_end]

I agree with Kerilli on this one. My last boy has a horrific SJ record at the end (we were eliminated in the SJ in 3 events) but we found out he had navicular which was making his jumping a bit erratic.. He was fine xc and SJ on a surface but on grass he would refuse every other jump

 

[oldvic]

CR is for more than 24 jumping penalties. Any napping would be penalised as a refusal and more than 20 secs of napping would mean elimination so it is most likely that the rider fell off and had rails down and possibly 1 or 2 refusals. She would have been 70 secs over the time allowed but under the time limit which wouldn't count towards the CR. She wouldn't have gone XC as they are not allowed to if they have CR in the SJ.
She sounds over-priced unless she is good at something else like showing/hunting/dressage/brood mare etc. She is obviously not worth that as an event horse.

 

[DarkHorseB]

If eliminated for exceeded the optimum time OT would appear next to the result
CR is compulsory retirement - for 28 or more jumping faults (does not include time) it could include refusals or could be 7 plus knock downs
AR is accumulated refusals - so 4 refusals round the course at that level if Xc or 3 at SJ
3R is refusing three times at the same fence XC or SJ

Agree at 6k I would not consider a record that bad. You can get a lot for your money at the moment

 

[diggerbez]

if you are wanting to jump (even at RC level) i wouldn't touch with a bargepole i'm afraid- certainly not for 6k! i think that its always hard with BE records as they don't always tell the full story (for example my horse has two EEs on his record XC- both for rider error- missing a fence out! he's never faulted XC)...however, this is consistently suggesting that there is a problem with stopping...at a relatively small height. if you were after a dressage horse however, might be a different story if you have 6k to spend you should be able to get yourself something very nice

 

[Honey08]

I think that it is well over priced!

I do think that I have seen a fair few people at lower level BE who shouldn't have been there! I know of someone who bought a horse that had done fairly well at lower levels of BSJA, and started eventing it - the horse got eliminated twice in the show jumping at it's first two events. if you look up the rider they got eliminated a lot on their previous horse too - as Kerilli said, if reasonably riddenmost horses should get round BE80 or 90, but quite a few horses would work out that they didn't have to if not ridden well! The person I know who gets eliminated a lot is nervous, and I suspect that the horse would go round perfectly well with someone else..

So if it were nearer and cheaper I would still have a look - I'd expect it at nearer half that price though - as two different riders h ave been eliminated with it there may be some work to be done!

I do know of someone who bought a nice horse lately, that seems to jump really well. On it's BE records its not so good, but to me it was thrown into eventing too young and wasn't ready. When you look at the rider's record, it looks like the person was eventing several,and doing it pro, so the horses sometimes get pushed. I would look up the rider.

 

[TarrSteps]

You can always ask the sellers to explain but for that money, I would probably walk, even if I wanted the horse for a different job. I know not every horse takes to jumping but why event it, then? Surely if that's the case they knew before they left home. If it was all rider, why did they not put someone else on the horse and try to fix the damage.

I'd be worried there was an underlying issue, frankly. I know that's completely unfair but selling horses is about marketing and if they want that much money, then they have to prove why the horse is worth it.