Help with 'broncing' Horse!

[LivR]

Hello, my first post and just after a bit of advice/opinions.

I've got a green 6yo Irish x, and he's just started broncing in canter.
When I first got him he was very weak and struggled to get up to canter in the school (would Trot round very fast for half a lap) so decided to go back to basics, hacking, hill work, walk and trot work in school and pole work etc. Slowly started to introduce canter on the lunge then ridden in school- he was okay for a while and then developed the broncing habit.
He would only do it in school and not out hacking. He would happily pick up canter, canter round for a few strides then motor forwards and broncing would start. ( Gets me off every time)
But now...
he has bronced out hacking when cantering and it comes out of no where and he won't stop till I'm on the floor! (Doesn't do it every time)
He always gets his head down, rounds his back and plunges down into the ground and I can not get his head up.
I've had saddle/back/teeth checked and all okay, but haven't gone down vet route yet. I have had an instructor up but we haven't cantered yet as I know what's waiting for me!
He has always been ok on the lunge aside from panicking, this has now stopped and he happily canters round... until last week when out of no where he started broncning when I asked for canter. He eventually stopped and looked quite panicked, I calmed him down and carried on as normal and he didn't do it again!
I've had people who think he's being naughty which I hope it is but I do worry it's something pain related.
He's such a sweet horse in all other aspects and tries his hardest along as no canters involved!!

If anyone's had similar experiences it would be great to hear.
Thank you!

 

[ester]

has he seen a vet?

 

[LivR]

He did a few months back and all okay on standard vet checks but haven't had him X rayed or any other investigation. He's seen a Phsyio etc and all okay from what she can see.
My next point of call will be Vet but just wanted to hear anyone else's experiences

 

[ester]

It is just that you saying he is a sweet horse and tries really hard, I really would strongly suggest he is trying to tell you something hurts in canter for his reaction to be that strong.

The other option is to find someone very experienced with this sort of horse and get them to sit on and see if they can feel what is going on.

 

[coss]

What is he like cantering loose in the field? Is the broncing only when you're asking for canter or is it something the horse is naturally inclined to do?

 

[Red-1]

I would have a vet, but for a green 6yo it would not be unkown for then to get a bit mixed up learning to canter in the school. If, sadly, you have then come off, repeatedly, then this can itself set a pattern.

If the vet's check comes back clear I would send to a professional training yard with a nagsman/woman who can sit through the storm and nicely teach him that work is there to be done, and heads down heels up does not provide a release from the work.

If it is any consolation, when I was training Police Horses, they were also big Irish, and would often go through a terrible teens stage where they would give heads down heels up a try. As long as the rider sits tight and kicks on the storm soon passed and work could continue. Once it hadn't worked a few times it would be forgotten.

Often they will change shape quickly when strengthening and sometimes saddles could be to blame. Sometimes I think they lost balance, kicked themselves and all hell broke loose! Either way, broncing meant being kicked on into work, so was not beneficial. Obviously, if you have been coming off, it is a self fuelling behaviour, so for your own safety I would get a pro.

 

[claracanter]

My TB always bucks in canter on the lunge. He does it the first few times and then settles down. In fact, it's unusual if he doesn't do it. However he's a bit of a tricky one because he can buck in a canter transition when ridden if he's feeling fresh ( he usually squeals as well) or if he's in pain. It is my first indication that something is wrong. He has had two sets of SI injections over the last 18 months.I would get the vet out. I think a horse that is trying to get you off is trying to tell you something.

 

[ihatework]

What is this horses current stable management like? Ie feed, turnout, level of exercise?

Get it out as much as possible - ideally 24/7, but appreciate that might not be achieveable at the moment. Cut out haylage and hard feed and just feed ad-lib hay.

Up the workload. Lunge before you get on and when you are on keep a good hold of beckstrap and keep the horse forwards.

If still happening Vet check immediately and then if nothing obvious send away to a pro for a second opinion.

 

[Orangehorse]

Agree with Red here. This is actually quite a tricky thing. Some horses will just buck. Maybe there was something a bit uncomfortable which started it, or they find the work difficult, but it soon gets into a habit. Some horses will buck like mad in the field and on the lunge but not ridden (mine), others buck when ridden but if not nipped in the bud then it can soon lead into a permanent thing as they think this is what to do! Some horses buck for high spirits and don't mean any harm, whereas others will buck and buck until the rider falls off.

It can soon lead the rider to dread getting on and tensing up if you think he might buck and it leads into a vicious circle.
I would get a) vet, b) another opion on saddle/physio and then if that shows nothing then the experienced pro.

 

[fetlock]

I'd get a good remedial farrier to check his feet too.

 

[Bernster]

Yep, a few checks needed as def something is up! I start with the obvious - teeth, saddle, physio. Farrier if due any time soon. If serious or those don't show anything, vet check. I reckon he's in pain or uncomfortable from what you've said.

I'm not one for writing off this kind of behaviour as naughty unless everything else has properly been ruled out.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[SEL]

I put bucking down to being green and a bit silly with my mare until I came off hard one day and got the physio out to look at her (she had regular physio visits). Physio asked to look at my saddle and suggested I got a 2nd opinion on it. New saddler came out and spotted the tree was twisted. It was a brand new saddle bought for the horse and regularly adjusted so I was devastated.

It hasn't completely stopped her bucking - she still bronc if over excited about something (hoping she'll grow out of it), but they are a different type of buck to what we had before. Nowadays I can tell when we have a 'woohoo' buck versus an 'ow' buck. The woohoo ones can be ridden through but I ignore the ow ones at my peril!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Having a horse who Broncs I know how it can escalate - ( me braking my humerus) although it was pain related. Providing you have crossed all the *T's like saddle - pain- ulcers- saddle- chiro etc
I got a Buckstop which you cannot buy anymore as I think * Stop that horse* has gone bust.
I have found daisy rein can help but not a cure
If you can ride your horse and stay on I suggest a trainer who can advise you in a lesson how to stop him and get him out the habit.

Also check his fee and supplements, as mine is sensitive to magnesium and with it was MAJOR spooky and now with Equifeast we have her on zero magnesium and she is 95% better.

The other thing I was advised once we ruled out all the above, as he is very sensitive to flies landing and starts him off, was the http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=66 which really helped stop him, and I have recently lent it to a livery whose horse would randomly bronc also again was excitement and also just did it when he felt like letting off steam and she found it helpful too to control him.

Maybe avoid canters on a hack for the moment and just do them in a school as if you break something you will be out of action, and I feel you need a bit more instructor help to get you trough this sticky patch.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Hello, my first post and just after a bit of advice/opinions.

I've got a green 6yo Irish x, and he's just started broncing in canter.
When I first got him he was very weak and struggled to get up to canter in the school (would Trot round very fast for half a lap) so decided to go back to basics, hacking, hill work, walk and trot work in school and pole work etc. Slowly started to introduce canter on the lunge then ridden in school- he was okay for a while and then developed the broncing habit.
He would only do it in school and not out hacking. He would happily pick up canter, canter round for a few strides then motor forwards and broncing would start. ( Gets me off every time)
But now...
he has bronced out hacking when cantering and it comes out of no where and he won't stop till I'm on the floor! (Doesn't do it every time)
He always gets his head down, rounds his back and plunges down into the ground and I can not get his head up.
I've had saddle/back/teeth checked and all okay, but haven't gone down vet route yet. I have had an instructor up but we haven't cantered yet as I know what's waiting for me!
He has always been ok on the lunge aside from panicking, this has now stopped and he happily canters round... until last week when out of no where he started broncning when I asked for canter. He eventually stopped and looked quite panicked, I calmed him down and carried on as normal and he didn't do it again!
I've had people who think he's being naughty which I hope it is but I do worry it's something pain related.
He's such a sweet horse in all other aspects and tries his hardest along as no canters involved!!

If anyone's had similar experiences it would be great to hear.
Thank you!

Are you feeding him before you ride him? We had exactly this scenario & it turned out to be ulcers with our 6 year old connie, probably caused by transport over & time without food, the broncing & it was proper rodeo broncs that didn't stop until you were off, was assumed to be a reaction to acid splash on the ulcers, all sorted now thanks to vet treatment but would always be the first place I looked again - good luck.

 

[HeresHoping]

I would get a vet and back x-rays. And, if necessary, SI scan. Especially as you say he was weak when you started work.

Unfortunately the horse that did the bronco act in canter with me had a subluxating SI joint and Kissing Spine. He got very aggressive, would box at you coming out of the stable, couldn't gallop around the field without stopping to bronc at the end. It transpired he had fractured his ilial shaft on post mortem.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

As you have had the obvious initial checks done, I would get a vet to give him a really thorough check. Also be aware that a second saddler/dentist opinion is often useful.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

This happened 2013 - he walked two paces and bronked all 4 legs off the ground at once. The was pain related due to a stupid livery clipping in the wrong - result accident where my horse got caught in the cable then crashed into our main gates and bent them. Vet checked and treated his legs and all better said I could get on, but what we did not know was when he hit the gates his spine twisted and got inflamed and then with physio pressing his finger he reacted to finger pressure so riders weight would have been excruciating.................................. Where was I??? In Colchester Hospital where my parents had a near fatal car accident


What I am saying is sometimes the cause of Broncking can be well hidden. You can hear my bone break on landing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZRtjAtIYGw sorry it doesn't want to embed on here so you have to click the link


This was him as a 2 year old

 

[LivR]

Thank you everyone for your replys they've all been very helpful.
I think I will go down the vet route, and if nothing significant I will get someone with a sticky bum and lots of knowledge to come and see what they make of him.
Ulcers have crossed my mind as he can be quite stressy and dosnt keep weight on easily, so maybe that's something to rule out to.

He is out in the day but in at night and is on hay, he dosnt keep weight on easily so does have to have hard feed.

Thank you very much and will try to update when I've (hopefully!) got to the bottom of it.

 

[Blixen Vixen]

That’s a good way to proceed LivR. At this stage he definitely needs a very good professional, who is trustworthy, to assess for you and take for schooling.

Your confidence must be effected by all this. The trick with broncing is to force the horse to use his energy in a different way. When you feel it coming kick him on and keep his head up so he uses it to speed up rather than explode. Easier said than done though when he’s already decked you. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[LivR]

Blixen Vixen - yes hopefully someone can help.
I've managed to get his head up and push him forwards out hacking and on a few occasions i can stop him before it's started but In the school it's a bit more tricky, no matter how much I push him on, turn him or try to pull him up he just won't stop!
Confidence wise is ok at moment as I've come off just the three times but I don't want it to get to the point I loose it, and I know it's so easily done!
Thank you!

 

[Charlotte.04]

Blixen Vixen - yes hopefully someone can help.
I've managed to get his head up and push him forwards out hacking and on a few occasions i can stop him before it's started but In the school it's a bit more tricky, no matter how much I push him on, turn him or try to pull him up he just won't stop!
Confidence wise is ok at moment as I've come off just the three times but I don't want it to get to the point I loose it, and I know it's so easily done!
Thank you!

Did everything work out in the end? Was it pain or behavioural?

 

[SEL]

Did everything work out in the end? Was it pain or behavioural?

You're on a 6 year old thread!

I retired the one I commented on above. Suspensory ligaments amongst other things.

 

[Charlotte.04]

You're on a 6 year old thread!

I retired the one I commented on above. Suspensory ligaments amongst other things.

Sorry, I have read all of them up to this point and I couldn't resist! I would love to know what happened/ what the cause was because I went through a similar thing that we thought was lack of balance and experience, turned out to be saddle fit issues!

 

[sbloom]

Sorry, I have read all of them up to this point and I couldn't resist! I would love to know what happened/ what the cause was because I went through a similar thing that we thought was lack of balance and experience, turned out to be saddle fit issues!

Bucking is so often some kind of compromise under the back of, or behind, the saddle, a restriction of the function of the pelvis maybe, that sort of thing. Saddle may not have been the original cause, the horse may have changed shape slightly for some other reason, or even changed the balance it moved in (eg pushing up a front, a very GOOD thing) and it then caused more pressure at the back, very common. It's why it's such a good idea to be able to monitor the fit of your own saddle as we often miss small changes that lead to big issues.