Help with costing and - Would you breed this with this?

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elsielouise

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Soooo
Sorry if this is long. I hope its clear enough, typing v quickly as DS currently playing quietly but dont know for how long!!

Anyway - My mare is pretty much my ideal horse apart from being strong on occasion and I've always said I wanted to breed from her. BUT I know its not a cheap option and although I have a local equine vet friend who might AI her for me my husband is keener that I buy my next horse 'ready made'. I worry about the background of anything I buy though (had one develop ringbone at 7 due, vets thought to being hammered as a youngster while 'training').

ANyway....I'm trying to cost the process to present to my husband to help the 'make or buy' decision. Grazing isnt an issue as have own place but the rest of the costs are.

I'm hoping to eventually have something to BD at a reasonable level with county level showing confirmation and I LOVE coloured horses so would want that. Oh and a bit of RC jumping and hunting as and when (basically, another version on my mare).

Does anyone have a good idea of how much would this cost if I bought it as potential at, say, weaning, yearling. two or three year old? I havent bought anything for years so am out of the loop re buying this type.

I can cost the 'keeping' costs as bought my mare as a weanling but I got lucky with her and bought her from a stud that really didnt want to keep her over the winter as the rest of their foals where colts.

Anyway - I want to use this stallion

http://www.stanhopestud.com/


And this is my mare
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a132/elsielouise/dresswarmup2.jpg


What do you think?

A good cross? Worth doing?

Wish I was rich... <sigh>
 
Forgot to add, and dont know if Tand C will get cross but - assuming a healthy foal (and coloured although I know colour isnt guaranteed but my vet reckons 75% chance). What would a foal be worth with this mix. My mare is Hanovarian X - by not a particularly well know stallion but worked at GP (now deceased).

I don't plan to breed to sell but my DH is an accountant and wants the numbers.....

Sorry - I know the boards get flooded with breeding questions but a 'search' isnt helping and though I'm looking at web sites for coloured horses, the range in price is huge.
 
i remember didicoy! i think there are similarities between your nice mare and him which personally i like to see, in other words they match i don't like matings where the two horses are very different, i believe he had a long competition career, on both photos the horses look like they are happy working
 
Hi I love your mare and your choice of stallion. We went through exactly this a couple of years ago - wanting to breed a foal from my daughter's extremely successful piebald mare, whio does everything very well and willingly to boot and has won at the BSPA Chanpionship shows etc.
To cut a long story short - be prepared that it can be very expensive - we chose relatively 'cheap' stallions (stud fee) and tried over 2 years to get firstly my daughter's mare and then mine in foal - 1 naturally the other via AI. Guess what? Neither took and the exercise cost around £1,000 for each mare and I didn't want to retry with my mare as I felt it wasn't meant to be, so the stud fee is lost in part.

Personally I would be very cautious and remember you could lose your mare foaling!!! Also you could have a very average or worse foal, however well you pick your stallion.
So many owners are sentimental about their 'great mare', but personally unless a mare was early retired through injury I think home breeding is a massive gamble.
Today you could buy a fab foal or yearling for under £2,000 and it could be exactly what you want - not that ridden ability is guaranteed.
Take a look on the horse sale sites - there are some fabulously well bred coloured youngsters for sale - I always look at them out of interest.

This 2 yr old is an example: http://www.horsemart.co.uk/young_stock_horse_2_yrs_16_2_hh_skewbald_lincolnshire/advert/152684
 
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Have you looked on the Stanhope for sale page?

I like the bay three year old at £2,200 which sounds reasonable and below production cost.
You could easily get a bay colt and not the coloured you are hoping for.


I got a chestnut colt from my mare - a one in 16 chance - so buying a weaning means you get what you want without losing your mare for two seasons.

As to the stallion choice - no problems that I can see although a conformation photo of the mare would help.
How good is her shoulder? She looks a little front heavy in the picture.
 
You have the stud fee (+ VAT), keep costs whilst there (can't be sure how fertile your mare is even if all the bits a re in the right place), vet fees/ farriers/wormers etc whilst there. Swab fees prior to sending her there, & if they aren't clear (e.g. may show minor internal infection), cost of sorting it, then redoing swabs. Costs of scans post conception (don't skimp on these, don't want to risk loosing twins).

Then there is having you mare out of action for basically 2 years, is that okay? I bred from my arab mare, accepting she wasn't perfect. I found the best boy I could (never try to save money when choosing the stallion), happy that if I had one like her, like him, or a mix I'd be happy (so accepting faults that may be passed down). Breeding for yourself & breeding to sell are totally different, you may be willing to accept faults that a buyer wouldn't.

If you do not get what you want will you either be happy or able to sell the foal? Are you prepared to risk loosing your mare & ending up with nothing? Do you want a coloured youngster so much you'd be better buying one? Breeding is not the cheaper option, youngsters sell pretty well at production price, except those of especially sought after lines or exceptional quality, many only start to make anything like they are worth once they are backed & proven. If you choose to sell the solid coloured foal, do not expect to recoup your expenditure, as unless it is amazing (in which case I'd doubt you'd be selling), you wont have the pedigree to make the money.

Breeding is wonderful, I adore my endurance horse in waiting (currently 3 & mooching in the field enjoying the sun). It is not the cheap option, you are not sure what you will get. There is no obvious answer for you, it all depends on how much you personally rate your mare & how much you want one from her.
 
If you 100% want a coloured foal, don't use him because he does not always throw coloured horses. I have been looking on the internet at foals and youngsters and there are a lot of healthy young horses out there with impressive pedigrees for £2500 upwards, and you could probably batter the breeders down even lower because young horses are just not selling at the moment. So it would probably be cheaper to buy something and then you know exactly what you are getting in terms of sex, colour, its ALIVE and so is your mare.
 
I agree that, especially if you want a particular colouring, it is better to get something you can already see. See the other post on here about an owner giving away a bay foal they were hoping would be coloured. How many homes for life can you afford to give to non-coloured foals? How long/many times are you prepared to try?

You might still want to go for it, in which case best of luck (and I'd love to see the pics!) but there are other cheaper and more colour-certain options.
 
Mare is nice and Stallion is nice... from what I can see, would make a nice match.

In addition to what others have already said. Please don't be fooled that breeding your own or buying a youngster somehow helps to guarantee a healthy adult horse. I thought that. How wrong could I be. Unfortunately youngsters (particularly those between the ages of about 4 - 18 months) are prone to growth related disorders such as physitis and OCD which are costly to manage / treat and can render the horse unridable in later life... they are also more prone to accident and injury which can be thoroughly frustrating, dishertening and again COSTLY!

On these grounds alone I would recomend looking at youngsters that are 2 years +. You still have satisfaction of teaching it (virtually) everything it knows and if you do your research, have it thoroughly vetted etc you can be fairly sure of it's long term soundness.
 
my nearest specialist equine reproduction vets do whole three AI cycles for just less than £400, which includes scans, pre breeding examination but obviously doesn't include semen collection and extra fertility treatment, also there is stud fee to stud to pay for- this is handy as we didn't want to send mare away.

you can reduce costs by sending your mare to be AI'd at stud.

you have your own place so no livery, assuming you have good grass your mare shouldn't need extra feed over summer, you would be keeping the mare over winter anyway so wouldn't be to much extra cost. in the last four months you will probs need to up the feed.

I would say it costs upwards of £1800 to get a foal on the ground and upto the weanling stage(thats assuming no complications, foal at home etc).then I would feed good balancer youngstock feed = extra cost.

however I looked at Hannovarian filly whose dam was by relatively unknown stallion and the fillies sire was classic juan, the yearling filly was £3500 which I thought was fair-so yours could be worth similar

Didicoy is not homozygous so NO GARUANTEE of coloured foal btw!!!!

Good luck!
 
I am also in the go buy one camp. A friend did the breed mare of a life time, and ended up with something so far removed from what she originally wanted.

an other example is look at the post by gypsy cob.
 
s4sugar said:
Have you looked on the Stanhope for sale page?

I like the bay three year old at £2,200 which sounds reasonable and below production cost.
You could easily get a bay colt and not the coloured you are hoping for.


I got a chestnut colt from my mare - a one in 16 chance - so buying a weaning means you get what you want without losing your mare for two seasons.

As to the stallion choice - no problems that I can see although a conformation photo of the mare would help.
How good is her shoulder? She looks a little front heavy in the picture.
Click to expand...

Hi

I saw the bay and he looks the 'type' I am after but if I was buying I'd buy coloured. If I breed and get a bay colt that is OK and I'd almost certainly keep it anyway (the almost being if someone wanted it more than me and wanted to pay and I was prepared to put her in foal again).

I dont have any full confirmation shots of her as a mature horse as it happens. She's quite correct (think the pic was a spring one so not in full 'competition' muscle tone. She's not bad behind but if I was being being critical I'd say she's ever so slightly long in the back. I was discussing this with my farrier though yesterday and he said he thought that was better as it gave her 'more room'.

Hmmmm
 
tristar said:
i remember didicoy! i think there are similarities between your nice mare and him which personally i like to see, in other words they match i don't like matings where the two horses are very different, i believe he had a long competition career, on both photos the horses look like they are happy working
Click to expand...

Thank you. My farrier told me yesterday he used to shoe Diddicoy (he is local to us) and his temprement was spot on. Thats one of the things that I was concerned about as my mare is so good so, I think they make a good match. Apart from not being homozygous but I'm prepared to take that risk (not had mare tested and Diddicoy isn't)
 
pip6 said:
Then there is having you mare out of action for basically 2 years, is that okay? I bred from my arab mare, accepting she wasn't perfect. I found the best boy I could (never try to save money when choosing the stallion), happy that if I had one like her, like him, or a mix I'd be happy (so accepting faults that may be passed down). Breeding for yourself & breeding to sell are totally different, you may be willing to accept faults that a buyer wouldn't.


Breeding is wonderful, I adore my endurance horse in waiting (currently 3 & mooching in the field enjoying the sun). It is not the cheap option, you are not sure what you will get. There is no obvious answer for you, it all depends on how much you personally rate your mare & how much you want one from her.
Click to expand...


From above - I think I am where you where really. I bought the mare as a weanling (at 4 months as her mother died suddenly) and so enjoyed her early years. I also think I trust her so much more having known her so long. I do want to make sure though that, although I intend to keep both the mare and foal that I dont breed anything unsaleable as despite the best intentions, you never know what might happen.
 
SusieT said:
Could we have a stood up picture of your mare prior to decisions?
Click to expand...

I havent got one on this computer sorry. She's quite well put together and my equine vet friend and farrier both think she's correct enough to breed from (otherwise I really wouldnt consider it). Funnily enough they both recommended Diddicoy independently too.
 
CBFan said:
Mare is nice and Stallion is nice... from what I can see, would make a nice match.

In addition to what others have already said. Please don't be fooled that breeding your own or buying a youngster somehow helps to guarantee a healthy adult horse. I thought that. How wrong could I be. Unfortunately youngsters (particularly those between the ages of about 4 - 18 months) are prone to growth related disorders such as physitis and OCD which are costly to manage / treat and can render the horse unridable in later life... they are also more prone to accident and injury which can be thoroughly frustrating, dishertening and again COSTLY!

On these grounds alone I would recomend looking at youngsters that are 2 years +. You still have satisfaction of teaching it (virtually) everything it knows and if you do your research, have it thoroughly vetted etc you can be fairly sure of it's long term soundness.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. when I bought the mare as a weanling I worried so much about the fact she may never grow up to be the horse of my dreams and in fact went to the stud to buy a two year old and came away with her! Saw her, had to have her!
 
Angua2 said:
I am also in the go buy one camp. A friend did the breed mare of a life time, and ended up with something so far removed from what she originally wanted.

an other example is look at the post by gypsy cob.
Click to expand...

And there is the counter argument of course. Which is why I havent yet done it. And why every year about this time I consider it ..... and put off the decision again.... and now am researching it for this year or never ever.
 
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