Help with FAT horse!! :-/

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C&C

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Hey peeps....i need some help and ideas as i am completely out!!!!! :confused:

Ive had my horse, who is now 20, for 18 years, he is a Shire x TB and has always been a tad on the porky side but never huge or obese! He is, however, MASSIVE at the moment and i cannot get the weight off him!

I have put him back on soaked hay instead of haylage and he is fed 1 scoop of D&H Sixteen+ on an evening along with Keep Me Sound supplement, a drop of Corn Oil (and i mean the smallest amount) and garlic with the occasional apple and carrot. He is stabled at nite and has 2 standard size haylage nets full of soaked hay. He is turned out during the daytime on virtually nothing! Our winter grazing is very poor and is literally mud and dirt so he basically has nothing through the day!

I cant ride everyday due to my working hours, i work 12 hour continental shifts! :( However, the weight should, in theory, be falling off him shouldnt it??? I am stuck for ideas now. He is wormed along with the others twice a year, basically when they change fields from summer to winter and vice versa. I have thought about worming him but they are due to be done this month as they are moving into the summer fields around 26th of this month! This is the other problem i have, if he doesnt lose weight soon - once he moves he will explode! :eek: I will still be bringing him in during the night etc so he wont be on the grass 24/7 until it has been eaten down and it is much warmer at nite.

The yard where i keep him used to be a working beef farm and i have been told that the grazing and forage on the farn is Rye Grass, some people have told me this is not great for horses as it can make them very fat but not full.......thing is, apart from moving yards there is not alot i can do about this :confused:

Is there anything else i can try or something i havnt thought about???? Any help or ideas will be MOST appreciated.

I am hoping to do some Veteran classes this year, beginning in May, but i am afraid they will just put us right down the line for him being so overweight :(
 
I would wonder if he needs a whole scoop of the D&H, that's quite a lot for a hors ein light work, why not buy a low calorie balancer instead and just give a small scoop of that each night. Does he need the corn oil? (If you're feeding such a tiny amount I'd wonder if he needs it at all?) How long do you soak his hay for, if not already I would change to atleast 12 hours as this will get nearly all the goodness out of it.

When he moves to the summer grazing why not buy him a muzzle to limit his grass intake. You are right that rye grass is quite rich, ideal for fattening up beef cattle, not so great for horses! Othe rthan that I am not sure what else to suggest, obviously exercising him more would help but if you can't do this then you can't! Am a bit worried about the twice yearly worming, it's not really a good system. Do they take into account tapeworms and encysted small redworms? Also does he get all his feed at dinner time and then little else all day? This isn't ideal, horses are meant to eat little and often. Maybe give him a small breakfast before he goes out so he is not on an empty stomach. You could try double netting his hay in haylage nets so he takes longer to eat it.

As an aside, he'll probably do well in the showing as they tend to like fat veterans! ;)
 
Well firstly I would consider whether he really needs anything apart from hay. You could just give him hay and a mineral lick and see if that works. If he isn't in much work, he shouldn't need any hard food. I understand that at his age it may be difficult to not give him any, but my 22yr old just has hay and is looking good, if a little unfit due to lack of work.
 
Could you change the sixteen+? I use to look after an older cob on that, when you squeeze it together it sticks in one lump? I feed my cob on fast fiber and hi fi light and he does really well on that. I work shifts as well so I know how you feel :( Can anyone else ride him for you? just a hack once or twice a week. Is he Rugged?
 
I havnt gone down the muzzle route and would prefer not to, i just cant bring myself to put one on him, he has never had to wear one in all the years ive had him. I know its silly but i would rather try everything else first. I have a hard time keeping a fly mask on him in the summer let alone a muzzle! Lol. He is sneaky little so in so....;)

Yes you are probably right in saying that a scoop is too much for him. Is there anything else i could feed with it if i were to stick to the 16+ but reduce it....maybe a light chaff or something? I think i will take out the oil completlely, like you say its prob not doin much anyway ;) I will go back to doing breakfast and tea at a much reduced ration and see how that goes. I would get a friend to help ride when im working but our YO charges for extra peeps on the yard and its hard to get people to pay it! Plus he can be a complete arse sometimes even though he is 'getting on' a bit.

Maybe i could give the double netting a go, i would need to buy more nets though. I completely agree about the worming programme down there, they wont change it.....i may look into my own plan but would that be a waste of time if i am the only one doing it?? My youngster does not have any of these probs, he is a 5yr old Sec D and is just right weightwise but i know he is still growing at the mo.
 
Apercrumbie said:
Well firstly I would consider whether he really needs anything apart from hay. You could just give him hay and a mineral lick and see if that works. If he isn't in much work, he shouldn't need any hard food. I understand that at his age it may be difficult to not give him any, but my 22yr old just has hay and is looking good, if a little unfit due to lack of work.
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Good idea - He has to have a joint supplement though so how would i go about this if he is having no feed? He usually is not fed hard feed during the summer but if i need to feed this supplement i need something for it to go in now? :confused:
 
jennifer83 said:
Could you change the sixteen+? I use to look after an older cob on that, when you squeeze it together it sticks in one lump? I feed my cob on fast fiber and hi fi light and he does really well on that. I work shifts as well so I know how you feel :( Can anyone else ride him for you? just a hack once or twice a week. Is he Rugged?
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I know, shifts are such a pain! :( As explained above i cant really get anyine to ride him as he can be an arse sometimes plus the YO charges for extra peeps on the yard! :(

I could change his feed, he has never been fussy or funny about changes in food. Maybe speaking to a nutritionist would help?
 
As said before, haylage nets!

Ditch the D & H and the corn oil.

Try turning out at night instead of day?

I really sympathise tbh, it's so hard :(
 
I agree with Clippy, or if its rainy where you are put on a light-weight rug? also i would like to congratulate you on having an oldie who keeps the weight, all my friends who have elderly horses have had difficulty keeping the weight on so keep positive :)
 
I know small-holed or double haynets are often recommended to make hay last longer but I have read, or been told by someone that it can make horses have neck problems as they are constantly having to struggle and shake their head and neck around to get anything out of the net. Have no personal experience of it as my ponies live out and are fed from the ground - use haynet only in very windy weather or at a show but I'm sure someone will put me right if they disagree.
 
I have put a lighter rug on but cant really let him go naked just yet as he is fully clipped :confused:

I have just been on the D&H website and read up on the 16+ .......... i was completely oblivious to the fact that it is a WEIGHT GAINER and Condtioner for the older horse :eek::eek::eek: I just thought it was a mix designed for veterans that had some added minerals and vitamins in it!!!!!!!!! I have only just topped up my bins yesterday as well so i think my youngster (who is a little weed compared to Chance) can finish this off ;)

Yes i am glad i have a Veteran who has probs keeping the weight off rather than the other way round....i have friends who have 'skinny' oldies and i feel for them.
 
Ah, just before you put your last post I was going to say that the veteran type mixes are generally designed to keep weight on so, if yours doesn't have this problem then I wouldn't be feeding him any veteran type mix. If you need to give him something to mix his supplement in then just go for a standard coarse mix or a low calorie mix (although saying that my chunky oldie turned his nose up at low calorie mix - he has a sweet tooth me thinks!). Only give him enough to mix the supplement (shouldn't need a lot at all!).

Funnily my oldie's called chancer - maybe there's something in the name! haha
 
Sorry in my post about the haynets I forgot to suggest anything else. I also think a low-calorie balancer is probably all that is needed in the food department alongside hay/grazing and see if that does the trick. You will also have to think about restricting grazing soon, when the grass starts to take-off, especially as you say it is rye grass (often used for horse grazing because it is hardwearing but actually quite sugary/high calorie). It's so difficult as it's hard to strike the right balance between almost starving the 'fatties', which can be dangerous, whilst still allowing them to trickle feed. I know it can seem almost impossible for some horses and ponies (and humans!) to keep the weight off, so good luck in whatever you try.
 
ladyt25 said:
Ah, just before you put your last post I was going to say that the veteran type mixes are generally designed to keep weight on so, if yours doesn't have this problem then I wouldn't be feeding him any veteran type mix. If you need to give him something to mix his supplement in then just go for a standard coarse mix or a low calorie mix (although saying that my chunky oldie turned his nose up at low calorie mix - he has a sweet tooth me thinks!). Only give him enough to mix the supplement (shouldn't need a lot at all!).

Funnily my oldie's called chancer - maybe there's something in the name! haha
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Ha ha, maybe ;)

Yes i am taking him off it right away! I have now learnt my lesson to READ what feeds have in them and not just feed away!!! ;):D

I am hoping we have cracked the prob and he will start to look better and his 'normal' self in a few weeks/months ;)
 
horserugsnot4u said:
Sorry in my post about the haynets I forgot to suggest anything else. I also think a low-calorie balancer is probably all that is needed in the food department alongside hay/grazing and see if that does the trick. You will also have to think about restricting grazing soon, when the grass starts to take-off, especially as you say it is rye grass (often used for horse grazing because it is hardwearing but actually quite sugary/high calorie). It's so difficult as it's hard to strike the right balance between almost starving the 'fatties', which can be dangerous, whilst still allowing them to trickle feed. I know it can seem almost impossible for some horses and ponies (and humans!) to keep the weight off, so good luck in whatever you try.
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Thanks :D He will only be out during the day for a few hours when they change over until the others have eaten most of it down ;)
 
Actually, just remembered something else I read on a forum about keeping horses on small acreage, which equally applies if you need to keep laminitics/good doers in a restricted area. It is to make the area long and thin or around the perimeter of the field, rather than a small square so as to maximise the amount of moving around. I thought this was a good idea and shall be trying it out on my ponies in a month or two.
 
Yep i know a few places that graze like that - unfortunately not an option at my place, fields are about 7-9 acres each with just as many horses in them, they are not strip grazed due to amount of horses. They are turned out together (mares and geldings seperate) and there is no additonal turnout available, other peeps snapped the little paddocks up for the laminitics :( However, once the grass is eaten down by the 'not so fatties' then things are alot better ;)
 
hi c+c, if he is keeping alot of weight, have you thought about EMS? This makes them keep weight, cresty neck etc, and can be diagnosed with a simple blood test. As i can read, for the size and the little food he has it maybe be a metabolic issue rather than food chages, if the body is on a go slow then whateve u feed he is unlikely to lose weight. I was in a similar situation, my pony of 15 yrs is ridden everyday, fed v minimal (she is laminitc) but was the size of a house- i suspected EMS and she was diagnosed with this, she had no outward signs, well in herself, happy etc, so it might be worth a check....
 
pony person said:
hi c+c, if he is keeping alot of weight, have you thought about EMS? This makes them keep weight, cresty neck etc, and can be diagnosed with a simple blood test. As i can read, for the size and the little food he has it maybe be a metabolic issue rather than food chages, if the body is on a go slow then whateve u feed he is unlikely to lose weight. I was in a similar situation, my pony of 15 yrs is ridden everyday, fed v minimal (she is laminitc) but was the size of a house- i suspected EMS and she was diagnosed with this, she had no outward signs, well in herself, happy etc, so it might be worth a check....
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Hi :D What is EMS :confused:
 
Cut down on hard feed, he doesn't sound like he needs it. No apples or carrots, full of fattening sugar. He doesn't need 2 full haynets over night. I would cut it down to 1 small-medium sized haynet, and maybe double net it. (Carry on using soaked hay)

You say your grazing is poor, but then go on to say it used to be dairy grazing. Ours did too, and can become very very rich. Have you thought about restricted his grazing??

If not, what about using a muzzle? Our boy Bruce is a serious good doer, and has been in the same condition yours sounds to be; dangerously close to becoming laminitic!

In theory, yes, he should be losing a little weight but unfortunately it is exercise that truly shifts it. Have you considered asking someone else to gently (as he's a golden oldie) lunge him, even take him for a walk down the road/round the field? Do you have access to a horse walker?

He sounds very big considering he is not eating a huge amount. Have you had his bloods checked for anything? (Not a vet expert so can't suggest much).
 
To be honest i think i have cracked the problem - after reading up on the D&H 16+ i found that it is a weight gainer for Veterans which i didnt realise, so i think this the main issue. He has not always been this big, always a good doer but never too fat.

No walker unfortunately although i would LOVE to have access to one! ;)

It was a beef farm years ago, its now a DIY livery yard only, our winter grazing is bad coz its a smallish field (roughly 4-5 acres) with 8-9 horses on it, hence after a month its a complete mud bath with the rain etc!!!!

The summer grazing is lovely, nice big fields with perfect views etc etc, just too much grass at first. Case of going from one extreme to the other unfortunately! :/
 
Daft as it sounds you can feed a horse too little which makes them hang on to their reserves. Can you give him ad lib soaked hay and cut right back on the hard feed? Just give him a low calorie balancer to make sure he is getting enough vitamins and minerals and leave it at that.

Brisk walking will really help, whether ridden or in hand.
 
feeding little and often will start the "slow go" to get back in to motion, you actually lose weight when you eat (the right stuff and amount) than when you dont eat all day then have 2 haynets at night and get an insulin rush.
 
Have you weigh taped him (to give you a rough guide) and then weighed his feed to work out what he is actually getting?

A horse needs 1.5%-2.5% of their body weight a day. The lower amount for good doers and those on a diet. Yes it is ideal to feed ad lib forage, but you just can't with some horses and they put on too much weight which is even more detrimental.

Get yourself a weigh tape and some spring scales and weigh his hay nets. Then double net them. Remember when working out the daily total you need to take into account what he is eating in the field. Feed him a handfull off a low cal chaff for his joint supplement.
 
galaxy23 said:
Have you weigh taped him (to give you a rough guide) and then weighed his feed to work out what he is actually getting?

A horse needs 1.5%-2.5% of their body weight a day. The lower amount for good doers and those on a diet. Yes it is ideal to feed ad lib forage, but you just can't with some horses and they put on too much weight which is even more detrimental.

Get yourself a weigh tape and some spring scales and weigh his hay nets. Then double net them. Remember when working out the daily total you need to take into account what he is eating in the field. Feed him a handfull off a low cal chaff for his joint supplement.
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Totally agree with this :)

My mare, a warmblood cross is a very good doer. I used to give her a handful of hi-fi lite and ad-lib hay and she just piled on the weight. I now have worked out her correct feed, I feed her 1.5% of her body body weight. I soak and weigh all nets and she now has 1 scoop of happy hoof, I've also limited her grazing as we have rich pasture and she is muzzled with a greenguard muzzle when out. Within 6 months she lost weight, after 9 months she looks great.
 
Well it sounds as though you have found the answer really but while you are waiting for him to lose weight, I would feed some oat or barley straw alongside the soaked hay. I agree with the person who said haynets are bad for horses - they do encourage the wrong muscle development - and they can be dangerous.
I have just bought an overweight good-doer, she is now on a diet of no hard feed (she was getting h&p nuts and chaff before), a small handful of Graze-on with a very few grassnuts, to encourage her to eat PinkPowder and other supplements, haylage and barley straw. She is slowly losing weight.
 
Haven't had time to read replies so apologies if I am repeating what others have already said.

I have a lamanitic pony so I have to be very careful what I feed and looked extensively into calories in each food and treats such as carrots and apples etc.

Firstly I question the need for 2 haynets at night. I am on a yard of about 50 horses and not one of them gets 2 nets, and we also have no grass in the fields. If we fed them all 2 nets, we'd have a yard full of fatties :)

Secondly hard feed, if its not essential, cut it out. A handful of hi fi lite to put your supplements in is all that is needed, and you can give a carrot and apple as a treat in the handful of chaff. I know others often say cut carrots and apples out, but lets get the calories into perspective here.
A scoop of chaff is well over a thousand calories, a carrot is about 50, an apple about 100, its the one treat you can give that is verging on insignificant in the way of calories.

I would also consider a muzzle when being turned out, I know they aren't popular and people feel they are being cruel, but a foundered overweight horse in severe pain is far more cruel. I have no option to use one, if I didn't, I'd have a crippled pony and she'd not thank me one bit for that!
Rugs off also, they burn fat keeping warm.

Its like yourself, calorie in take versus calories burnt, your horse is clearly getting way more food than they need.
You have to be cruel to be kind with horses, the consequences of being heavily overweight can be serious, if you've had no health issues so far it doesn't mean you wont in the future, but its good to see you recognise you have a problem and are attempting to deal with it, good luck :D
 
hi c&c, EMS is equine metabolic syndrome, if his change in diet doesn't prove fruitful, it would prob be worth gettign vet to test him for this by way of a blood test, it is inexpensive and would ive you piece of mind also...sounds like you have found the answer though, so good luck and hope he loses a few pounds x


C&C said:
Hi :D What is EMS :confused:
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