Help with hay/stable possessive mare

[[172742]]

Hi, so I have a new mare I’ve had her 3 months and I’m looking for some advice on a stable behaviour she is showing.

When I first go into her stable of an evening her ears go back and she threatens to bite, she even threatens to kick sometimes but after that first time I can go in and out as I please and she’s not phased. When I groom her her ears go back and she turns her head round threatening to bite but then goes back to eating hay, she’ll repeat this a few times then after 5-10 mins she will not care and I’ll be brushing the exact same spot, she does not do this when tied up outside her stable.

think this behaviour could possibly be related to her being hay possessive but I’m really not sure how to correct it. I have tried giving her a slap and yelling at her which just escalated the situation and she threatened to kick, I have also tried ignoring the behaviour but doing so it is gradually getting worse as the weeks go on, it’s not realistic to tie her up every time I want to groom her etc. I also go in her stable and spend time with her and groom her on her days off too so it shouldn’t be work related. After seeing how she is with her previous owners and how they are with her I would expect when she has done this with them they have just left her alone so I think this could be a learned behaviour that I need to train her out of but I don’t really know where to go from here as i don’t want the behaviour escalating and this also makes her dangerous to handle for other people, she’s on part livery so it’s not really fair on them to have to deal with this. Any advice welcome

 

[Mylo3825]

I had a horse with similar behaviour and it turned out to be ulcers once she was treated she acted completely fine and I have kept her on a gut supplement since. It could possibly be something like that but if she’s only doing it in her stable and not outside I think it must be something she’s gotten away with in the past and has learnt it. I would try to go in with her as much as possible and use rewards and pressure release any time she’s calm. It seems like she’s had a bad experience before hand

 

[Pinkvboots]

Why don't you just do most things with her outside some horses are a bit stable possessive, my Louis is a bit grumpy in the stable but totally fine just tied up outside so I tend to do most things with him outside and just give him a hay net while I'm doing things.

 

[bonny]

Why don't you just do most things with her outside some horses are a bit stable possessive, my Louis is a bit grumpy in the stable but totally fine just tied up outside so I tend to do most things with him outside and just give him a hay net while I'm doing things.

This, leave her in peace when she’s i her stable especially when she’s eating and take her out groom etc

 

[ihatework]

There are a couple of things I would say.

Is she sore anywhere? Might be worth a physio check and considering gut discomfort.

Secondly, not all horses are preprogrammed to want lots of human interaction. Whilst I support they need to be safe to be around, I would say, leave her be in her stable. Some are just like that.

Groom and tack up outside, tied up. And don’t fanny around for hours if she is not that way inclined.

 

[[172742]]

I had a horse with similar behaviour and it turned out to be ulcers once she was treated she acted completely fine and I have kept her on a gut supplement since. It could possibly be something like that but if she’s only doing it in her stable and not outside I think it must be something she’s gotten away with in the past and has learnt it. I would try to go in with her as much as possible and use rewards and pressure release any time she’s calm. It seems like she’s had a bad experience before hand

Yeah I did think ulcers first but she’s not like this with tack and fine tied up etc, yes from the way she is I do think she’s probably had prior bad experiences

 

[[172742]]

Why don't you just do most things with her outside some horses are a bit stable possessive, my Louis is a bit grumpy in the stable but totally fine just tied up outside so I tend to do most things with him outside and just give him a hay net while I'm doing things.

This is not always possible, there’s not many tying up spots on a big yard and I go at popular times due to work

 

[[172742]]

There are a couple of things I would say.

Is she sore anywhere? Might be worth a physio check and considering gut discomfort.

Secondly, not all horses are preprogrammed to want lots of human interaction. Whilst I support they need to be safe to be around, I would say, leave her be in her stable. Some are just like that.

Groom and tack up outside, tied up. And don’t fanny around for hours if she is not that way inclined.

No had a physio out a a month ago and all was fine, it only seems to be when there’s hay out and she gets over it in 10 mins and then she literally couldn’t care less. I did think ulcers but she’s fine to be tacked up in the stable, groomed outside the stable ans groom in the stable after a few mins so I think it’s just a learnt behaviour.

Tying up outside is not always an option as I’m on a big yard with not many tying up spots and I go at popular times due to work

 

[TheMule]

I like Carl Hester's philosophy- the stable is the horse's space. Leave it alone in its space. We ask a lot of horses by shutting them into very small boxes isolated away from their herd anyway, if she then finds humans in that space stressful, you can’t really blame her.
Tie her up outside the box to handle her.

 

[nikkimariet]

If tying up for every groom makes it safer then just do that? I tie mine up (and his companion) as then I know I can leave doors open etc. Rooni doesn’t ever try but his companion is not as mannerly (he is much younger in all fairness). I tie up for rug changes out of habit as find it prime time to get my toes trodden on.

 

[meleeka]

My mare was very food possessive. I just left her alone to eat and over time she improved. You've found out that fighting fire with fire doesn't work, so please remember that lesson. If you know she's fine after 10 minutes, then leave everything until after the 10 minutes. It's definitely worth mentioning ulcers, but some mares are just very clear about their wishes. In the beginning mine would really threaten to bite and kick if you went in her stable and she had a bucket, I almost sold her because of it, but I can do anything with her now and if her ears go back I just say "don't be silly" in my cheerful voice and they are forward again.

 

[Arzada]

think this behaviour could possibly be related to her being hay possessive but I’m really not sure how to correct it.

She's either hungry and can't tolerate you interfering or she just likes to enjoy her hay in peace and you aren't letting her

I also go in her stable and spend time with her and groom her on her days off

Forget the grooming. Take a chair into the stable and sit quietly by the door enjoying watching her and listening to her enjoying her hay

After seeing how she is with her previous owners and how they are with her I would expect when she has done this with them they have just left her alone so I think this could be a learned behaviour that I need to train her out of

Consider instead retraining yourself.

 

[[172742]]

She's either hungry and can't tolerate you interfering or she just likes to enjoy her hay in peace and you aren't letting her

Forget the grooming. Take a chair into the stable and sit quietly by the door enjoying watching her and listening to her enjoying her hay

Consider instead retraining yourself.

Thanks for a really unhelpful comment. I do sit in her stable in a corner for a good amount of time and just sit with her everyday thank you and have done since the time I’ve got her. She doesn’t mind me being there as she comes over and interacts with me in a friendly way. She’s already come on loads since I’ve had her and I have good trainers to help me with stuff, this one has just puzzled us all.

 

[[172742]]

My mare was very food possessive. I just left her alone to eat and over time she improved. You've found out that fighting fire with fire doesn't work, so please remember that lesson. If you know she's fine after 10 minutes, then leave everything until after the 10 minutes. It's definitely worth mentioning ulcers, but some mares are just very clear about their wishes. In the beginning mine would really threaten to bite and kick if you went in her stable and she had a bucket, I almost sold her because of it, but I can do anything with her now and if her ears go back I just say "don't be silly" in my cheerful voice and they are forward again.

It’s tricky because she can be fine with a food bucket, I do tend to just leave her be when I give her feed but yesterday I had no choice and she was fine with me doing her feet whilst she was eating. Regarding the 10mins it’s after I’ve been brushing her for that 5-10 mins, she’s had her hay for a good 1-2 hours prior to me being at the yard, I’ve also tried just hanging out in her stable for some time before I try grooming her etc, once she’s gotten over the first time I come in she doesn’t actually mind me being in there and comes over to me etc. It’s so puzzling and it’s puzzled my fab instructor too, she is a mare who holds a lot of emotion, I tried the fighting fire with fire on a recommendation from someone else but I defo will not be doing that again as it did not achieve anything

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Put the hay in before you put the horse into the stable and leave her for 10 minutes uf that's all it takes for her to settle. Otherwise just leave her alone with the hay and tie upmoutside to deal with her.
I used to have a mate who was proud of her hay. She got used to use leaving her undisturbed with plenty to eat and got over it.

 

[[172742]]

Put the hay in before you put the horse into the stable and leave her for 10 minutes uf that's all it takes for her to settle. Otherwise just leave her alone with the hay and tie upmoutside to deal with her.
I used to have a mate who was proud of her hay. She got used to use leaving her undisturbed with plenty to eat and got over it.

She has ad-lib hay, she’s been in her stable with hay for a good 1-2 hours prior to me getting to the yard, tying up outside is not always an option unfortunately

 

[kathantoinette]

I would do this;

Arrive at yard
Headcollar on
Tie up in stable
Remove haynet from stable
Quick brush over
Tack up
Ride
Back in stable, swap to headcollar and tie up inside stable
Remove saddle
Quick brush off
Rug up
Haynet back in stable
Untie and take off headcollar

As others have said she may not tolerate being brushed/groomed for longer periods of time. I personally think a full 10 minutes is a long time for a groom unless including a bath/tail pull etc.

I had one that was a bit tetchy in the stable so I never did anything without him being tied up and never ducked in front of him if he was eating his net, always went around the back.

I’m sure you’ll get a routine sorted.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I just keep any brushing and handling to a minimum in the stable with the grumpy one and his happier with that.

 

[[172742]]

I would do this;

Arrive at yard
Headcollar on
Tie up in stable
Remove haynet from stable
Quick brush over
Tack up
Ride
Back in stable, swap to headcollar and tie up inside stable
Remove saddle
Quick brush off
Rug up
Haynet back in stable
Untie and take off headcollar

As others have said she may not tolerate being brushed/groomed for longer periods of time. I personally think a full 10 minutes is a long time for a groom unless including a bath/tail pull etc.

I had one that was a bit tetchy in the stable so I never did anything without him being tied up and never ducked in front of him if he was eating his net, always went around the back.

I’m sure you’ll get a routine sorted.

Yeah I do agree, she is out naked so super muddy hence why it takes me so long to try get it off thank you

 

[maya2008]

In my experience aggression towards humans is either pain or fear (or very rarely in a youngster that they are pushing boundaries - we had a feral 2yo who initially thought chasing humans like she did her buddies was ok). Your horse lets you ride her and lead her, so it’s most likely to be one of the first two.

Pain - unsoundness somewhere, ulcers, muscle issues. I had a pssm pony who was always the sweetest mare ever, until she couldn’t do enough work to control her pssm due to age. She became miserable as anything, short tempered and snappy.

Fear - past experiences guide this one. Could have been hungry at some point, could have had food taken away, could have had someone be aggressive towards her in the stable or hurt her unintentionally - perhaps over some time if she had sore muscles which they brushed, not knowing they hurt, or was tacked up with a saddle that didn’t fit or a bit when her teeth hurt or…any one of many many things.

If fear, then you can change her association with you being around her and doing those activities in the stable, from negative to positive. I use clicker training for this, because done correctly it doesn’t cause them to mug you for treats, you don’t need the treats for ever and it really does change their opinion of the activities you use it for.

We have had a few mares who have not responded to humans well - from extreme self-harm and panic to outright teeth and hooves aggression. Calm and gentle clicker training, used safely, helped them to look forward to interactions with people and gave them a sense of predictability and safety. A gentle reprimand if needed later on (please don’t wave your hooves at my head when picking out feet thank you!) is then well received and has the desired effect.

For the general discussion on handling a horse in its stable, it is needed for:
- dentist
- vet (not always but for many things it is required, especially in the winter after dark!).
- box rest
- if ever on holiday/schooling/rehab livery
- resale if ever needed due to changes in personal circumstances.

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

Thanks for a really unhelpful comment. I do sit in her stable in a corner for a good amount of time and just sit with her everyday thank you and have done since the time I’ve got her. She doesn’t mind me being there as she comes over and interacts with me in a friendly way. She’s already come on loads since I’ve had her and I have good trainers to help me with stuff, this one has just puzzled us all.

Actually, @Arzada 's post was really helpful.

Why are new users such tools?

 

[[172742]]

In my experience aggression towards humans is either pain or fear (or very rarely in a youngster that they are pushing boundaries - we had a feral 2yo who initially thought chasing humans like she did her buddies was ok). Your horse lets you ride her and lead her, so it’s most likely to be one of the first two.

Pain - unsoundness somewhere, ulcers, muscle issues. I had a pssm pony who was always the sweetest mare ever, until she couldn’t do enough work to control her pssm due to age. She became miserable as anything, short tempered and snappy.

Fear - past experiences guide this one. Could have been hungry at some point, could have had food taken away, could have had someone be aggressive towards her in the stable or hurt her unintentionally - perhaps over some time if she had sore muscles which they brushed, not knowing they hurt, or was tacked up with a saddle that didn’t fit or a bit when her teeth hurt or…any one of many many things.

If fear, then you can change her association with you being around her and doing those activities in the stable, from negative to positive. I use clicker training for this, because done correctly it doesn’t cause them to mug you for treats, you don’t need the treats for ever and it really does change their opinion of the activities you use it for.

We have had a few mares who have not responded to humans well - from extreme self-harm and panic to outright teeth and hooves aggression. Calm and gentle clicker training, used safely, helped them to look forward to interactions with people and gave them a sense of predictability and safety. A gentle reprimand if needed later on (please don’t wave your hooves at my head when picking out feet thank you!) is then well received and has the desired effect.

For the general discussion on handling a horse in its stable, it is needed for:
- dentist
- vet (not always but for many things it is required, especially in the winter after dark!).
- box rest
- if ever on holiday/schooling/rehab livery
- resale if ever needed due to changes in personal circumstances.

This was really helpful thank you! I have been doing clicker and r + with her so I can defo see how this would help. Since I’ve posted this the last couple of days she’s been a lot better, I think maybe she was having a super off days on Monday. But I’ll defo try this thanks!

 

[WBGG]

My mare can be a grump in the stable too, so I try to groom her/rug change outside, or if it's raining tie her up inside. She's also quite opinionated about things like rugs...she'll tell you by facial expression/dramatic sighing if she doesn't want to wear one!! Also if she's in season, I tend to just leave her be if she doesn't want to be groomed.

In general I just try to "listen" to her opinions without being a pushover...things can quickly escalate if she feels like you're "telling her off", so I use tone of voice/body language etc and lots of praise.

I would also second checking for ulcers if matters don't improve. Mine was very touchy about being groomed/touched in certain areas when she had them.

Good luck

 

[timefort]

When I first got J she was a grump in the stable, so I rewarded any slight positive interactions with me and as much as possible in the early days I would take her outside with haynet for grooming/ tacking up etc so that these things didn't intrude on her space or mean the automatic removal of food. I tried to keep things she didn't like short and sweet and efficient, and spent much longer on good scratches, or anything she clearly enjoyed. Over time we alternated so sometimes we do things in the stable, sometimes outside. Always I rewarded positive interactions, and passively ignored general grumps. 10+ years later I can do anything with her in or out of the stable, with or without her being tied, and regardless of where food is. If I walk into her stable or field she will come and interact with me and stay with me. However, if someone new enters her stable the ears go back and she will turn away.
You say that you've only had your mare for a few months so she's probably still trying to work you out too and if she was recently worse than normal could she have been in season?

 

[WBGG]

"Always I rewarded positive interactions, and passively ignored general grumps."

This really works with grumpy mares!!

 

[HJJ]

She could be feeling a bit insecure in a confined space with you at the start, until she gets to know you / build trust, and may get better with time.

My gelding has food anxiety, pulls some mean faces but I ignore it. He's always done it but it was much worse in the first year I had him, he's more chilled these days.