Help with Irish Draught Feet PLEASEEEEEE!!

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi folks,

Right here's the latest saga!

Ive a 4 year old RID that ive backed and broken myself, he's a total star and a saint to learn new things so we are now spending the winter hacking out.

My farrier shod him back in August just fronts only as he really feels his front feet out on the road. Ok, now were into autumn/winter, he just cant for the life of him keep these shoes on!!!!!, farrier has literally been here every week for the last 5 weeks nailing a lost shoe back on to the point now that said horsey is getting arsey (and probs a bit sore) having a shoe nailed on every few days.

The farrier is brilliant, ive used him for about 15 years (he's a surgical farrier who used to treat my old horse, thats how I found him) so ive no issues with my farrier at all, all the horses are done every 6 weeks on the dot and on this last occasion he even made special shoes for my ID that didnt come too far back on his heels to try and stop him pulling them off by over reaching (he wears over reach boots in the field anyway), this in itself caused a small problem as now his heels were somewhat unsupported his stride has changed to quite short and choppy!

Anyway having just had another shoe replaced last Tues, I got him in last night to find he'd pulled another one off!!!!!!!! Farrier has said he doesnt want to come and put it back on again for a while as its just gonna weaken his feet and make him sore all this nailing back on all the time.

So what do you peeps suggest? I have an arena so could just ride him in there for the next 4 months but to be honest I think we'd both die of boredom?!

Now the dark nights are here and with work etc, he'll probs be hacking out a max of 4 times a week so I was thinking of just trying to persist with hacking out barefoot and seeing if his feet gradually toughen up, what do you think? He's also on the maximum dose of Formula 4 Feet to try and help too. Bearing in mind these specially made shoes have altered his stride anyway i'm reluctant to have these on again anyway and would rather wait til he can have proper shoes on that support his heels when he'd shod again if you get my drift?

Oh, and just to add, ive researched all the makes of hoof boots and due to his wide not long foot, I dont think these are going to be an option either, so its gonna have to be a life of riding in the school for the winter or percevereing (sp! sorry) to try and harden his feet with road work?

Many thanks for reading this, choccy biccies and cocoa if youre still awake, haha!

Luv Jayne xx
 

ThePony

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I would persevere with taking him barefoot (at least for a while) to get his feet strengthened. If he does feel his feet on tarmac then I would just start with leading out for a little time each day to give his feet a chance to strengthen. What is he fed other than the formula for feet? Does he have any signs of thrush? That might make him sore. Not sure of hoof boots as mine doesn't need them (am lucky!), but I'm sure someone will be able to offer advice on them. Feet first is a brilliant book so worth getting a copy for great hoof info. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feet-First-Barefoot-Performance-Rehabilitation/dp/0851319602
 

Lisamd

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NAF Profeet supplement and hoof hard has worked wonders for 2 of my boys and Old Mac Boots fit everything! I've has one pair on 4 different horses - they are great if you want to still hack out and protect his feet.
I had a young TB mare a few years back and she pulled shoes off as frequent as yours, but once in proper work and muscled up she stopped.
I think you can measure the foot and get the correct size from the website :) Good Luck
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi Glosgirl & Lexie,

I must admit on flat tarmac he is relatively ok, its just any stony or shingly ground that you'd think someone had broken his leg!, so I think maybe persevering in the way forward, I just dont want to hurt him thats all and dont really know anything about barefoot as have always had my horses shod so didnt know if by persevering his feet would gradually harden up? He's fed, healthy hooves, high fibre nuts, formula 4 feet and a bit of garlic and mint.

Ive already broached the subject of glue ons with farrier and he says it wont allieviate the problem of him pulling them off, it'll just cause damage when he does!, (so far everytime he pulls a shoe off its totally cleanly so theres no actual damage or bits missing to his hooves at all).

Grrr bloody horses, why isnt owt simple!!

Thanks again guys xxx
 

hayinamanger

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Oh dear, that's stressful for you and your horse (and the farrier!)
I had a similar problem with a long-legged, short coupled Shire X, he pulled several shoes off, the farrier took the heels back as far as he could and when he muscled up a bit and learnt where to put his feet the problem ceased.
Have you considered Imprint shoes? The Plus type can be used for all ridden activites and give good grip, I think the largest are 5 1/2'' long and 6 1/4'' wide. If your farrier thinks they may be appropriate it could provide a solution.
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi Lisa,

Mmm, now I did read that the original boot was ok for wide feet but I just dont know, its a hell of alot of money to fork out if they dont work. Thanks tho, its probs worth me readiing up on them again xx
 

Foxy53

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Don't forget - any supplement you are feeding for feet will take anything from6 to 12 months to show any real effect and progress.

Also, your 4yr old will be taking a lot of 'goodness' from his food because he is still growing, which will affect his overall well-being. Keep up with the supplements; biotin etc.

Because of his type (and probably size); IMHumbleO I would not leave him unshod. You may have to be patient; mine has take ~2 years 'til now :eek:

My 17hh ID had similar problems and is still very aware of his feet when the farrier takes his old shoes off for re-shoeing - he appears dead lame but when new shoes are put on, he's fine! :rolleyes:

My boy is on gradual build up so I still don't know if he will stay sound, next spring will be the real test! :eek: He has had remedial work for over a year.

Good luck - ID's are well worth the wait :)
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi there, thanks for your reply in Devon!, the imprints are glue ons tho arent they and my farrier recons he'll just do himself more damage pulling glue ons off rather than nails (he always pulls the shoes off cleanly so far *touches wood*).

Farrier and myself think its just a young horse and all legs problem that he will grow out of when he gets older and more muscle, work etc. He's 17.1 and very gangly still and of course cant walk anywhere when he's out in the field, he has to either trot or canter which i'm sure isnt helping keep the shoes on!! xx
 

ThePony

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If he is ok on tarmac then that is fab, I would just stick with riding and leading out on tarmac, given time his feet will strengthen to deal with the stimulus his feet are getting. It won't happen overnight, but will most certainly improve his feet. I would look closely at the feed and make sure he isn't getting any added sugar at all. It can make a massive (bad!) difference.
I would be very unwilling to have shoes on with poor heel support. You may get him keeping shoes on but it will put such alot of stress though his ligaments and will just be storing up problems for later. Not a 'solution' I would consider at all tbh.
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi Foxy, thanks for that. He's 4 year old, 17.1 and extremely gangly and all legs!!! I think i'll probs try him just on the very flat tarmac for a bit and see if he improves and if not then its gonna have to be school work til Spring and youre right, me being patient!!

They are such lovely horses arent they, he honestly hasnt a bad bone in his body bless him, good luck with yours I really hope he says sound for you. Thank again xx
 

ThePony

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Don't forget - any supplement you are feeding for feet will take anything from6 to 12 months to show any real effect and progress.

Also, your 4yr old will be taking a lot of 'goodness' from his food because he is still growing, which will affect his overall well-being. Keep up with the supplements; biotin etc.

Because of his type (and probably size); IMHumbleO I would not leave him unshod. You may have to be patient; mine has take ~2 years 'til now :eek:

My 17hh ID had similar problems and is still very aware of his feet when the farrier takes his old shoes off for re-shoeing - he appears dead lame but when new shoes are put on, he's fine! :rolleyes:

My boy is on gradual build up so I still don't know if he will stay sound, next spring will be the real test! :eek: He has had remedial work for over a year.

Good luck - ID's are well worth the wait :)

What would his type and size have to do with his ability to be sound unshod? Shouldn't make the blindest bit of difference! As long as his feet are given time, nutrition and stimulation they will improve no end and carry him very well indeed! Even if you do decide in time that shoes are the best choice for you both, being unshod will do him no harm (I belive it would do him alot of good) and will allow his feet to strengthen. The feet do show up any nutrition wibbles very quickly. This is no bad thing though, best to get that feedback so you can improve the feeding.
 

mainpower

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Have you ever seen the shoe being pulled off? I ask because I had the same problem with a TB I had, constantly pulling off a front shoe, despite always wearing OR boots, breaking foot with it, farrier coming every week to replace it. But one day, after my very patient farrier had literally just left the yard, I went to turn horse out, and saw him stand on the inside of the shoe with his other front foot, where the OR boot doesn't cover. So farrier came back and shod him with racing plates, flush to the foot with no overhang to stand on, but still with heel support. Plus he advised me to feed Naf Pro Feet, his feet improved in quality within two weeks, I know that sounds far fetched but it really is true! Anyway, upshot of it all was that in the following 8 months I had him with me he never lost another shoe.
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi Glosgirl, thanks, yes I must admit, he hasnt had these short heeled shoes on for long and I wouldnt want another pair cos its really made a difference to his stride, its gone all short and choppy so I dont think they can be doing him any good anyway.

Oh well thanks for your advice, i'll double check his diet and start some gentle hacking barefoot on the tarmac and see what happens.

Watch this space then, haha!

Thanks again xx
 

JanetGeorge

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Some IDs DO have ghastly feet. My very first RID gelding - now 18 - had the worst feet imaginable. Shoes lasted days - not weeks - and be broke chunks out of them every time he pulled a shoe. AND he couldn't walk sound on GRASS - let alone anything else - without them!

Two things helped with him. Keratex on the soles (to harden them and make him less prone to stone bruises) and Kevin Bacon's hoof dressing slathered on daily! This got him to the point where he'd keep shoes on for at LEAST 6 weeks - as long as he had over-reach boots on when turned out. As he's now retired, I've taken his shoes off (with some qualms) but so far he's coping.
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi Mainpower, ive never seen one pulled off but he does get chased off his haynet in the field (yes he's 17.1, like a brick s**thouse and is about the lowest in the pecking order!) so I suspect he's pulling them off sideways like you say when he moves quickly if he's getting chased. There's always lots of extra nets to the amount of horses but they like to chase him off everyone!

I'll certainly mention the plates to my farrier tho, thanks for that xx
 

Vetwrap

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I would persevere with taking him barefoot (at least for a while) to get his feet strengthened. If he does feel his feet on tarmac then I would just start with leading out for a little time each day to give his feet a chance to strengthen. What is he fed other than the formula for feet? Does he have any signs of thrush? That might make him sore. Not sure of hoof boots as mine doesn't need them (am lucky!), but I'm sure someone will be able to offer advice on them. Feet first is a brilliant book so worth getting a copy for great hoof info. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feet-First-Barefoot-Performance-Rehabilitation/dp/0851319602

^^^^^^ Echo this!

Would also recommend Keratex painted on the sole and an inch and a half up the hoof wall every day for a week, then every two days for a couple of weeks, then every three days after that. I've also bought the Equimins hoof hardener (half price supplement sale from Efeed), but haven't tried that yet, so I don't know how it compares.

Would definitely get the book though.

ETA - Would be hesitant to put boots on a young horse - just in case one rotated or slippedand worried the horse.
 
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Foxy53

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Hi FP & H's Mum

this may be expensive but your insurance may cover it:- get your farrier and vet to work together and x-ray his feet to see how much 'toe' they can cut back to change his 'break over' point. This will allow his front feet to leave the ground quicker, stopping him 'forging' and ripping his shoes off.

I know when my lad was 4 I never thought I would be able to ride him out because he kept tripping, this was mainly due to him 'gawping' around (which he still does:p) and not paying attention to where his feet were. I even bought some long lendon-cum-knee boots because he was so bad.:D

The problem with IDs is they take so long to mature :eek: but last for ages......:)
 

FabulousFlynn'sMum

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Hi again Foxy, Oh right yes that might be something worth thinking about too, he's actually really good when he's out for gawping, even for a baby bless him. I tend not to have any problems with tripping tho thank god (having had a shattered shoulder, mine not the horse!, rebuilt about 12 years ago after a horse tripped and fell when I was cantering!).

Right, off to the field now to get him in now the rain has finally stopped!, hopefully he'll have pulled the other one off last night so at least we'll be level!

Thanks again Foxy and everyone else for all your help and suggestions.

Bye for now xxx
 

AndySpooner

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Seems to me your horse is trying to tell you something. Why don't you go barefoot, and get some boots to use when you go out hacking.

Get his feet trimmed up for barefoot and keep using the boots when you use him, you will find, like most others do, his feet will improve. Once his feet have improved you can shoe him again if you really must.

Constantly trying to nail shoes onto poor feet destroys them in the end.
 

Ladylina83

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My 17hh ID had similar problems and is still very aware of his feet when the farrier takes his old shoes off for re-shoeing - he appears dead lame but when new shoes are put on, he's fine! :rolleyes:

Doubt he's dead lame he's just not used to feeling his feet touch the ground. The toughness needs a chance to build up, the 5 mins between shoe coming off to shoe going on isn't really a good indicator - I'm also sure that size doesn't make a jot of differance his feet should be naturally big enough to support him with out a shoe. Some ponies can't cope without shoes lots can and it's the same with horses in my experiance.

OP - Take your farriers advice, leave them off for a bit flat tarmac roads and some type of toughener on the sole each day especially if its wet out. just walking from the field to the stable might toughen them up. You don't want them crumbling away and splitting they might be weakened from all the recent nails.

Try some hoof boots you can always stick them on ebay if they don't work out. Thats what I did with mine. understand what you mean about size a lot of them seem styled for arabs.


See how he gets on but shoes don't seem to be areeing with him much at the moment
 

AndySpooner

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Doubt he's dead lame he's just not used to feeling his feet touch the ground. The toughness needs a chance to build up, the 5 mins between shoe coming off to shoe going on isn't really a good indicator - I'm also sure that size doesn't make a jot of differance his feet should be naturally big enough to support him with out a shoe. Some ponies can't cope without shoes lots can and it's the same with horses in my experiance.

OP - Take your farriers advice, leave them off for a bit flat tarmac roads and some type of toughener on the sole each day especially if its wet out. just walking from the field to the stable might toughen them up. You don't want them crumbling away and splitting they might be weakened from all the recent nails.

Try some hoof boots you can always stick them on ebay if they don't work out. Thats what I did with mine. understand what you mean about size a lot of them seem styled for arabs.


See how he gets on but shoes don't seem to be areeing with him much at the moment

Totally agree.
 

ferrador

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how does the horse lose his shoe ? is it twisted ? when exactly does it happen ? have you seen it happen ? all are very relevant questions , there is always a simple solution once it is determined how it happens
chris
 

KautoStar1

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Hi there
I have a RID and he's pretty good at removing shoes - usually hinds and this is because he's messing about with his mates, having his heals stood on.
His feet are quite brittle and I've been feeding NAF Pro Feet, along with the a daily application of hoof moist and his feet have improved a lot. Any shoe loss now is due to mud and high jinks :)
Don't change the shoe type to combat the shoe loss, stick with what is correct for his foot and movement.
As he's only 4 and therefore far from mature, especially for an ID, why don't you consider taking his shoes off, turning him away for the winter and letting his feet grow a bit, along with a good supplement and a regular trim ? You might find, come the spring his feet might be a different picture altogether.
Good luck anyway, I know how you feel. On the positive side, you have an Irish Draught and they are the best sort :) :)
 

Oberon

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Leave the shoes off.

Work him and the stimulation to the feet will make his sole toughen and thicken and go back to how they would have been without the shoes.

Please ensure you are feeding an appropriate diet as his overall health will be reflected in the feet. An excess of molasses in the diet often causes inflammation in the foot and they may be footy.

I saw a massive difference in the quality of my horse's feet when I stopped feeding Happy Hoof - and that is supposed to be endorsed by The Lami Trust!

Please ensure your farrier knows not to trim the sole of a working barefoot horse. This will set back his progress and make him sore and footy.

Trimming is a very small part of a working barefoot hoof - diet and stimulation are what makes it happen. Sometimes the are footy if they are low in magnesium.

Keratex and any lotions and potions are not neccesary. The toughness and hardness will come from within.

Feet First is a book that may help someone new to barefoot.
 

Nari

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Tell me about it, my ID's feet re the bane of my life! For us Fitzwygram shoes really helped, the sharpened up his breakover & made him much less likely to pull shoes off. Turnout in flattish fields with quiet company make a difference too, though he still has his moments.
 

julieleach9

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I wonder if it is size and type? My 17.1hh IDxWB doesn't actually know where her feet are they are such a long way from her brain!!!!
 

silverstar

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As others have said Id take the shoes off for a bit now that its winter and he wont be ridden that often to give his feet a chance to harden up, feed biotin altho it takes some time to see results and get hoof boots if you can get them big enough for road work.

I had an ISH with truly awful feet. He did keep shoes on tho they were really flat and the size of dinner plates. He suffered with intermittent lameness due to his flat feet. Never solved it hes now living a life of luxury on loan.
 
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