Help with TB pedigree research & photos

KarynK

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I don?t know if anyone can help, just putting the final touches to my look at TB back pedigrees of TB?s born all white and I have a horse where I can?t establish the registered colour of one of the parents to rule them in or out of the study.

The horses I need to find the registered colour of are La Mabrian (CHI) 1974 ,
Aconcagua (CHI) 1966 and the stallion Pergolese (GER) 1914.

If possible and I know this is a long shot I?d like a link to or photos of
Apolld (CHI), Carmentina (CHI) (believed 1985), War Colors (USA) 1963, Glacial (AUS) 1966, KY Colonel (USA) 1946 and a stallion Grey Marwin (GB) 1961.
 

magic104

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I don?t know if anyone can help, just putting the final touches to my look at TB back pedigrees of TB?s born all white and I have a horse where I can?t establish the registered colour of one of the parents to rule them in or out of the study.

The horses I need to find the registered colour of the stallion Pergolese (GER) 1914. - http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=Pergolese&x=26&y=27

This link has a photo
 

KarynK

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I can't find either La Barrientos or La Mabrian on Weatherbys!
Funnily enough it was Weatherbys that gave me the names of two whites from Chili, I'd never heard of them but they gave me the details, bit strange! Perhaps you have to pay more to view worldwide, bit like Sky telly!!!

Joking aside Weatherbys were really helpful and couldn't do more, they got back to me really quickly and it was nothing to do with racing as such! The ones they gave me were

Carmentina (CHI) 1985 by High Master (CHI) Ch ex La Malibran (CHI)
Apolld (CHI) 1985 by Worldwatch (USA) B ex Aconcagua (CHI)

I need to check if they were first instance whites in which case I can include them, but the dam's colours were not on the All Breeds Pedigree Database. I even did a bit of digging on their names to see if either had anything to do with being white and big fat no on that one!
 

magic104

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Funnily enough it was Weatherbys that gave me the names of two whites from Chili, I'd never heard of them but they gave me the details, bit strange! Perhaps you have to pay more to view worldwide, bit like Sky telly!!!

Joking aside Weatherbys were really helpful and couldn't do more, they got back to me really quickly and it was nothing to do with racing as such! The ones they gave me were

Carmentina (CHI) 1985 by High Master (CHI) Ch ex La Malibran (CHI)
Apolld (CHI) 1985 by Worldwatch (USA) B ex Aconcagua (CHI)

I need to check if they were first instance whites in which case I can include them, but the dam's colours were not on the All Breeds Pedigree Database. I even did a bit of digging on their names to see if either had anything to do with being white and big fat no on that one!
Have you tried sportshorse database?
 

KarynK

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Sorry Magic, tried to reply to you earlier but lost mobile connection! Yes unfortunately no colour on that DB either! I do like Pergolese, good illustration of what St Simon and Galopin lin breeding did for the TB, no wonder they grabbed his son Woher for Warmblood breeding.

There was a poster on here on the old forum that lives in South America? The colour would probably be on the Chillean stud book records, but my Spanish!!!!
 

S_N

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Wetherbys are fab! IMO they are the most helpful breed registry anywhere! Nothing is too much and their efficiency and friendliness is second to none!
 

KarynK

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Weatherbys came up trumps again and with a lot of help from google she is Mulata which I beleive is used to mean tawny, so Brown I am thinking but at least not Blanco??? Good enough for me and I really wanted this one in the survey, will tell you why in a few days when I have written it up!!!!

Angrove - Thanks, I now have all Woher's details and having looked at dad I know know for certain her is a crop out!

Was looking for a pic of Driects Unique One (USA) 2001 and have tracked him down, he was gifted this year to a Texas University breeding programe so I'll email them for a pic, the wonders of internet!!!
 

stolensilver

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Not wanting to throw a spanner in the works but does Tawny mean brown? The definition of tawny is light brown. Could it describe the roaning you see in what used to be thought of as sabinos so the horse was a lighter colour than most brown horses?
 

criso

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Could M not be Morcillo - which is a term for Black in horse colours in some places.
I have heard of Bayo rayo de mula for dun not buckskin (this literally translates as buckskin with a mule stripe)

You get negro mulato in bulls but not come across the terms in horses

This was the only picture I could find and apologies for directing you to a site full of bull fighting breeds but it had a good picture

http://www.monumentallorenzogarza.com/noticias.htm

Type in negro mulato on find on this page and you will find a good picture of a black bull that has a brownish tinge.
 

Lord_Horatio_Nelson

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Just had a look at a breeding report and I take it you knew that La Barrientos had a white colt in 1985 called Sundance Kid by High Master. La Malibran was the only foal of hers that had no colour listed!

Criso, the Chiliean Stud book had Mulata for M. listed. It was just a case of trying to work out what they meant by Mulata :)
 

criso

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Does it pop up alot in the chilean stud books? just wondering if it is a local term for brown or if they used an unusual term for a horse that didn't quite fit into the usual colours.

In bulls it is used for a black bull with a brownish tinge - almost sunbleached when the light catches it.
 

KarynK

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Just had a look at a breeding report and I take it you knew that La Barrientos had a white colt in 1985 called Sundance Kid by High Master. La Malibran was the only foal of hers that had no colour listed!

Criso, the Chiliean Stud book had Mulata for M. listed. It was just a case of trying to work out what they meant by Mulata :)

Ah no that's interesting so it should really be La Barrientos that I need to look at, I got Carmentina (CHI) 1985 but if her grandam produced a white then that's the first instance I need to look at. Can't find his ped on the Tb database, but I note that La Barrientos is by a horse called Pink Horse??? gosh this gets complicated! Trouble is asI am finding they are not well recorded!!

Criso the guy at Weatherbys definitely said Mulata. Those are some mean beef!!!! Reminds me of a Brahma cross jersey I saw at the Calgary Stampede, he was really mean, didn't have horns but took to trying to do headstands on fallen cowboys!!! Interesting colours they get too!
 
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