Helping a Left Brain Introvert enjoy his Jumping!

[Becki1802]

Hi,

I'm recently getting into Natural Horsemanship as it seems to be the only thing that works for him! He is a typical

Left-Brain Introvert

Welcome to the land of “Why should I? What’s in it for me?” This horse reads people like abook. He knows what you want and he’s not going to give it to you, unless you treat him right. Even though he appears stubborn or lazy, he’s not at all lazy in the mind! Reverse psychology is where it’s at, oh… and treats!

DO:

Use incentive – treats, grazing, rest, scratches, etc. Incentive
is not bribing because you’ll ask your horse to do something before rewarding him. A bribe is when you use the treat to lure him into doing it. There’s a big difference.
Ask him to do less than he’s offering. It will blow his mind! He’ll then start offering more.
Give him time to think. He’s not a slow thinker; he’s just got to stop thinking resistant thoughts before he can be more in tune with you.
Variety is important, it makes life interesting.
Use more drive than draw.
Teach him some tricks. This is fun for both of you and is a good way to make him feel clever.
Move his mind and he’ll move his feet.
Parelli Patterns! They encourage him to think and show how smart he is.

DON’T:
Make him work. He uses energy only for the things he thinks are fun.
Punish him. You’ll have a big fight on your hands. This horse is a master intimidator of people when he dislikes them!
Don’t push him. He’ll have you working harder than him! He’s also great at objecting when asked to go faster and usually responds by kicking up, swishing his tail or laying back his ears. Just don’t go there. Do the opposite of what he expects.
Don’t micromanage – ask him to do something and then wait for him to do it. If he doesn’t, resend.
Don’t get tougher, get more ‘interesting’ – do less to get more. Surprise him with a flick under the flank and a treat (cookie, rub or rest) when he tries.
Use much repetition. He cannot see the point in doing the same thing over and over and will lose motivation and respect for you. He’s smart. Treat him like he is.
Let your horse come to you with his ears back. Send/chase him away until he asks for permission to come to you.
Get fooled into thinking that he’s lazy. He’s just unmotivated by you, so figure out how to make things more interesting?

He has gone from bargey, unsafe, non-loading horse (would take up to 40 min & 3 people) to a gentlemen on the ground who backs up with just light pressure and loads in just 5 minutes in just 3 weeks! So it is working!!!

My next trouble is when his ridden work starts to get hard - he gets a bit nappy, ears back and bucking at my leg aid. I know with this type of horse it is v counter productive just to keep pushing but he needs bringing on (he is 4.5yo). Noting the bits in bold, how do I motivate him to want to do his ridden work even when it is 'hard' or he is getting a bit tired? Ideas please!!

This is an example of him when you piss him off; he goes like this in his lessons if you upset him!!!
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=629331680004&saved

 

[Miss L Toe]

I had to get a top instructor to sort my boy out when he went in to overdrive with napping and ears back stuff, she rides him with a schooling whip [as I do] and just makes him go forward. Tapping him on the flanks till he responds to leg aids.
We have progressed but he nearly had her off one day when he was a bit stiff from working the day before, and was determined NOT to do as asked.
I did try the carrot treats method, but soon got mugged and abandoned that idea.
Yes, scratching on the withers and loads of praise when he is trying, interesting lessons and never the same ones.
He has had an abscess this week, and when he was in pain, we had to suffer too, with bites, a totally uncharacteristic action, but typical of his over-reaction to "things"

 

[Becki1802]

Thanks for the reply! Mine has quite a buck & if I make him cross he gets worse! A whip sadly makes him worse but spurs are better although today he was objecting to them! Like you said I do get him going forward. I have good instructors who are helping. But I wondered what Ideas people have to make him WANT to do it as I think this is the key for him!! To help him enjoy it & find it fun!! I'm trying carrots in my pocket but not sure he is connecting the treats to the jumping!!!
Rio was a nightmare to treat for his mud fever last year so I feel your pain!!! Good luck with the abscess!

 

[RatzFatz]

Not Sure about this left brain stuff!!!!
You have a young horse that is pushing his boundries
How long has he been broken, do you hack him with other horses to get him moving forward?

There are many reasons he is nappy, have you had his saddle checked? His teeth checked?

 

[RatzFatz]

Sorry hope that didnt come across as negative,

What about doing some hunter trials as a pair where he is following another horse or some sponcered rides.

 

[Becki1802]

I understand the scepticism with the LBI stuff - but he does fit the character & I know that pushing him or punishing him doesn't work but rewards & pressure release helps!!!
His napping isn't out hacking - he is great to hack alone & in company. It is in the school when he doesn't want to work, when it gets hard or when he gets tired! He gets sticky & refuses to go forward, bucking & ears back. I do get him to go forward but he is then v cross. Back, saddle, teeth checked in last 6 months.
He has been broken since August & brought on hacking & schooling since.

 

[foxy1]

I wouldn't work him hard; keep his sessions short and varied.

 

[Becki1802]

Sorry hope that didnt come across as negative,

What about doing some hunter trials as a pair where he is following another horse or some sponcered rides.

Don't worry not too negative - I don't think I would have believed in it 4 weeks ago but being more positive, learning to move his feet and using NH to load him has really turned him around.

I think that XC would be good - I did a menage session today to get him ready to go XC. I am a little nervous though in case he gets ridiculously strong - he gets a bit strong SJing! I am hoping to go a nice group session with a good instructor but there aren't many courses open yet down here as the ground is still damp!

 

[RatzFatz]

l have had horses for over 30 years and believe that you need to build up a relationship with a horse, your boy is young, take your time and do things slowly. Vary his work, being in the school is very boring for a young horse that is intelligent. Have lessons if you can, do stuff that he enjoys.
l am sure others on here will have some ideas )))

 

[alphanumeric]

My suggestion would be to stop spending time labelling your horse as "a left brain introvert" or any other such malarky and concentrate on experimenting with different exercises with poles/jumps to see what makes him tick and gets him having fun...

 

[Becki1802]

I'm not spending any 'time' labelling him!!! It is just a description of his personality & attitude to life! There is nothing wrong with trying to understand them!! & no I'm not a hippy, green peace loving, horse agility type - I just want to bring my youngster on as best I can!!!

I have several good 'conventional' trainers & we are trying lots of exercises - poles, grids, courses, Flatwork & jumping! Any actual exercises in particular you'd suggest?!

My point is he obviously isn't enjoying it & sees it as a chore & not fun! Hence the napping. I'm looking for ideas to give him incentive & make it fun! They dont have to be natural horsemanship but they do have to be Ideas that aren't punish him / whip him!!! As I know this won't work & my instructors, who have actually met the horse, agree it won't work & will turn a young horse sore.

 

[alphanumeric]

Obstacle courses both in the school and in the field, using jump stands as weaving poles etc.
Getting him to halt halfway over a pole so he's standing with it between his front and back legs - improves awareness of where his feet are going/what the pole is doing.
Shapes made with poles that he can walk through or back through.
4 poles on a circle (one at each quarter), do in each pace.
A course of poles (or small jumps) to get him going without any worry factor of how big they are.
Raised poles to walk, trot and canter over.
4 poles in a square shape in the middle of the school so you would go over 2 on each diagonal change of rein - practise going through in all paces plus transitions in between the two ie: walk to halt to walk, trot to walk to trot etc.
Poles on the centre line to change the rein over in a serpentine or incorporate into circles
Poles at C, B, E and A to just work over in the course of your riding and use as you want.
Approaching poles at odd angles.


Any of these can be transferred to the field as well, if he finds the school boring. Plus plenty of hacking and anything else that makes him think forward - no worries about outlines, strides, quality of transitions etc, as long as you get go, stop and turn then that's all that matters.

 

[Becki1802]

I'll give it a go (not all in one session of course) & see what he finds fun!! Thanks!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Don't worry not too negative - I don't think I would have believed in it 4 weeks ago but being more positive, learning to move his feet and using NH to load him has really turned him around.

I think that XC would be good - I did a menage session today to get him ready to go XC. I am a little nervous though in case he gets ridiculously strong - he gets a bit strong SJing! I am hoping to go a nice group session with a good instructor but there aren't many courses open yet down here as the ground is still damp!

Any nervousness on your part will immediately translate to him, also if you have tried a schooling whip and have given up when he objected, this is a big signal to him that you are his slave, most youngster do this kind of thing and that one reason why a young horse is not recommended for a novice.
This does not mean he is not Left side Introvert, but believe me, it sounds more likely that he does not want to work. to find out, just ask your instructor to ride him, she will tell you soon enough and you will see how he can behave when "the boss" is on top.
I know it seems an expense compared to a group lesson, but you need to sort this out now, otherwise one day he will start to nap out hacking, then in hand, and so on, it will escalate, so nip it in the bud.
I have never paid someone to ride my horse before my current one, and he is Left brain, he has been fine on and off for several years, but due to circumstances has become very "backwards thinking", my instructor has had four or five sessions on him, and it is working, he is a much better ride, and is also learning to do his flatwork nicely.
He gets loads of praise when doing it right, in excess of the norm.
He gets persistent taps of the schooling whip, and leg on when not. He is getting the message.

 

[be positive]

Don't worry not too negative - I don't think I would have believed in it 4 weeks ago but being more positive, learning to move his feet and using NH to load him has really turned him around.

I think that XC would be good - I did a menage session today to get him ready to go XC. I am a little nervous though in case he gets ridiculously strong - he gets a bit strong SJing! I am hoping to go a nice group session with a good instructor but there aren't many courses open yet down here as the ground is still damp!

I am a bit confused by the comment that he gets strong SJing usually a sign they are enjoying it, unless they are rushing to get it over with.
It may be that he is not giving you the feeling he is enjoying his jumping because you are worried he is getting strong and hold him back too much at times so he then downs tools becoming nappy.
He is still very young, only broken in August it may be that a short break would benefit him then start afresh with lots of variety taking off any pressure you feel to make progress, many horses of his age are slow to get going and come on for regular time off.
Going xc in a pair is a great way to get them forward make it fun with plenty of rewards for doing well.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I am a bit confused by the comment that he gets strong SJing usually a sign they are enjoying it, unless they are rushing to get it over with.
It may be that he is not giving you the feeling he is enjoying his jumping because you are worried he is getting strong and hold him back too much at times so he then downs tools becoming nappy.
He is still very young, only broken in August it may be that a short break would benefit him then start afresh with lots of variety taking off any pressure you feel to make progress, many horses of his age are slow to get going and come on for regular time off.
Going xc in a pair is a great way to get them forward make it fun with plenty of rewards for doing well.

this^^^^^^ I agree with this, my boy has not started SJ yet, he is eight, and needs to learn flatwork, but we use grids, poles, cross poles and small jumps to confirm his obedience.
He has previously done little local show jump courses, but that is not SJ, to me SJ is when jumps are set up in such a way as to ask questions of a horse, with combinations and different stride patterns, fat too advanced for a horse which is so young.
I suggest you read up on the Scales of Training, which starts with rhythm and balance, this is the stage your horse is at, not collection, and so on. http://www.artofriding.com/articles/trainingscale.html

The best riders and trainers in the world will tell you that good training is that which is built block by block onto a strong, solid base. That base is comprised of the following six elements in that particular order:

Rhythm

Suppleness

Contact

Impulsion

Straightness

Collection

 

[Becki1802]

Hi thanks Miss Toe & Be Positive.

Don't worry I'm not a novice sat on a 4.5 year old! I had a very good older horse up until last year that I was jumping affiliated this is just my first youngster in about 15 years and he isn't easy. Instructor calls him Kevin the Teenager as that is his attitude.

I didn't give up on the whip lightly & if I need it or in time it will be reintroduced but after being told to lightly tap him every time he objected to my aids - we rodeo for at least 5 minutes before him shooting off and doing laps of the school. It was completely counterproductive; he was ears back constantly and very unhappy. When we changed to spurs it was much better as it was a softer aid.

My main instructor is over 60 so won't ride my horse (or anyone else's for that matter) but my yard owner (good dressage rider) is schooling him this week because I am away. We will see how she gets on.

I agree with the scales of training and my instructor uses them in her teaching. He has good natural Rhythm and suppleness, his contact is becoming more consistent. Impulsion is good until he starts the napping. Straightness is good. Collection is embryonic but improving all the time! I only started jumping after Christmas and it is still very small but the instructors (x3) felt he is ready and would help to occupy his active brain. I do a mix of flat and jump lessons and only jump in my lessons.

I think that maybe you are right Be Positive, maybe as he is rushing (I probably used strong wrongly in earlier post) I am holding on too tight - none of the instructors have picked up on this but I will ask them to look more closely in my next lessons and see if that might be part of the problem.

& I think the XC session when I can find an appropriate course and partner might be the best idea to get him thinking forward. I might have an opportunity early April but not confirmed yet. He is very brave and bold so I hope he'll enjoy it!

I know he is young & if he needs the break I will give it to him - I'm away most of May with work anyway so perfect time!

Thank you both for your replies.

 

[siennamum]

I think the categorisation of a personality type is quite interesting. That description fits my youngster very well also (and I really don't like Parelli much at all)

As they are similar - this is what I do (if it is of help).

Mine would be very angry if I carried a schooling whip, from the day I broke him (he had never been hit with it, but could see it out of the corner of his eye). I used to carry a normal whip and will give him a firm smack if he needed it. I am putting off using spurs. I don't like to punish them into being forwards, they need to want to be forwards. I will use spurs when I need to refine my aids. Mine would down tools if he thought he was going to be reprimanded in any way.

I reward mine with food all the time, and will the voice. He will turn his head round for a mint when I am on board if I lean down, he is getting a clear sense of right & wrong. His anger & frustration used to be largely driven by his highly developed sense of injustice and not knowing what I wanted. I have to be very black and white, ignore mistakes and reward effort and really reward him when he gets it right.

To get him forwards he has hacked, hacked and hacked again, He has been made to go up hill & down dale, he is now XC schooling with friends and will start XC pairs to really get him enthusiastic. He enjoys schoolwork, but was only able to last for 1/2 an hour till recently before he collapsed in a heap.

He is rising 6 this year and has had a personality transplant. He still takes the pee a bit, but I ignore that and he settles and really tries hard for me. Can't wait to really get him jumping and galloping now.

If yours is in any way similar I am sure he just needs to grow up. Just build on all the good experiences, avoid bad experiences - even if things take a little longer, keep everything fun and have zero tolerance for out and out naughtiness.

 

[ArcticIce]

Rhythm

Suppleness

Contact

Impulsion

Straightness

Collection

I agree with the scales of training and am mindful of them in my training but tbh, the OP needs to consider the two 'silent' scales before those.. forward and straight..

These seem to be the issues she is having (forward being the most obvious)..

You can't have rhythm without forward and you can't have supple without straight.

Great advice further back re using poles etc to make stuff more interesting. I do those sort of things with my older horse as he would get bored let alone a youngster.

Whatever you want to call him, he just sounds like a normal young horse who would be rather doing fun things in the warm spring air rather than circles. *



*Disclaimer : this doesn't mean he doesn't have to do them but you just need to make them interesting.

 

[Becki1802]

Thank you to the last posters both v interesting!

I do agree he is a typical young horse & maybe his 'what's in it for me' attitude is just amplified at the moment!

 

[Becki1802]

Oops writing on my iPhone & posted half way through replying!!!

Siennamum - they sound v similar & honestly I think before I met this horse I would have been sceptical. I'm not into Parelli, never played their games etc, but I felt their dos and donts make a lot of sense. The more I do as you say ignore his bad behaviour & reward the good. Like yours he does get tired & I doubt he will really mature until 6/7 because I've heard that about Warmbloods / Sports Horses before!

I should clarify with this napping - he never gets away with it!! I make him work through it but I just don't like the angry feeling beneath me & would prefer him to want to go forward without making a fuss! I think we are all in agreement he'd benefit from a small XC session!!!
& in the meantime we'll play some 'games' with poles as suggested in an early post!

Thanks again!

 

[Miss L Toe]

I agree with the scales of training and am mindful of them in my training but tbh, the OP needs to consider the two 'silent' scales before those.. forward and straight..




*Disclaimer : this doesn't mean he doesn't have to do them but you just need to make them interesting.

mmm..... forward and straight are intrinsic within rhythm and suppleness, so on, balance is not mentioned, but it is essential, yet lacking in many youngsters.

 

[Becki1802]

Thanks to those who suggested XC - He loved it!!!

Basically, having done a SJ course in a big open arena I think I have sussed the problem - he was sick of grids and tight indoor arenas and small menages - he was finding it too hard and not enough fun! He wanted to be allowed to go nice and forward & get his natural rhythm!!