Herd, dominance, gelding, mixed herd, new horse, calmers?

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Horsekaren

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Me again!
Another new issue.
My horse had gone from being bottom of the herd to top dog. He is in a small herd of 5, mares and geldings.
Recently two new horses (geldings) have been introduced and my horse has been being rather aggressive with them. Once has now moved on and the other was found with cuts and slices the other day. My horse was seen pinning the new horse to the ground.

My horse is protecting his herd but he is being a bit to much. In a few weeks he will merge with another herd full of very old dominant horses so I’m a bit worried how that is going to go down if my horse carries on in this manner. I know it’s natural and the pecking order, spring ect. He runs about rounding up hia hers, then he will attack tand go after the new horae
To try and help chill him out I was thinking about outing him on a calmer.
Is this riggish bahaviour?
Can anyone recommend a good calmer for this type of thing.

His behaviour else were is impeccable but just not on the field. He can’t be separated nor can the mares or geldings so I just wanna try a calmer to see if it helps as first point of call.

Any recommendations would be great!
X
 
To be honest I doubt a calmer would help. But if you want to try it then opt for one with Valerian - as long as you don't compete. Its banned in competition because it works.

For me I would worry more about herd management. I know we often have limited choice about turnout on yards - but it sounds like changes are being made without time for safe introduction which does bother me. More horses die as a result of field injury than competition injury. I don't think I'm overly precious about my lads but I would not want them hurt - or the responsibility of them injuring another horse - where some sensible herd management could have minimized the risks.
 
Is his behaviour elsewhere "impeccable"? That's not what your other posts have suggested. You need to find compatible companions or separate him. You can't make him behave in the field. He may improve with a bigger herd and he may improve without the mares but you need to do something. Just leaving it isnt really a sensible option unless you want to risk being asked to leave. There's no way to predict what will happen so you do need to try differect setups. I don't think a calmer is the answer.
 
It sounds like relatively normal behaviour when herds are not managed with introductions done carefully enough, the gelding that thinks he is in charge will often become possessive about the mares even if they are not generally riggy, he will probably go back to normal once he is with just geldings, it is why I prefer mine to be in same sex groups or just one gelding with mares.

I don't think a calmer will make any difference as it is the herd dynamic that is the issue.
 
Are new horses put in with others straight away?

If yes, agree with others poor herd management. I would be very worried about safety of all concerned.
 
Nudibranch said:
Is his behaviour elsewhere "impeccable"? That's not what your other posts have suggested. You need to find compatible companions or separate him. You can't make him behave in the field. He may improve with a bigger herd and he may improve without the mares but you need to do something. Just leaving it isnt really a sensible option unless you want to risk being asked to leave. There's no way to predict what will happen so you do need to try differect setups. I don't think a calmer is the answer.
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Yes his behavior is impeccable, being a bit off in the school due to saddle issues i don't class as bad behavior. Not sure i have posted about bad behavior for a months now... but thanks for the comment can always count on one :P

Yard manager and other owners are not concerned their response is horses will be horses. He hasn't been aggressive until the arrival of the new ones and has been happily living nicely with mares and geldings all his life. Its just since he has found him self top of the order he seems to not take as well to the new ones. The yard is a mixed herd yard (one field, split in winter), always has been and by no means is anyone saying he needs to leave. The first new horse was just thrown in the field, the second was introduced on its second day for a few hours and was taken to a lot better than the previous new horse.

Its hard when you are told things that your horse does but dont actually see it. This new horse has been with the herd now for 2 weeks.

I wasn't sure if the combination of new horses, spring ect might be making mine a little off balance so wondered if something might help take the edge off
 
It is quite normal for a bit of unsettled behaviour when a new horse is introduced into a herd.

My older mare likes to chase them off "her herd" for a few days until she decides they are actually ok, thankfully this is the worst she does and I never have to really worry about her.

Personally I wouldn't have just let 2 new horses go into an established herd in very quick sucession as it would cause a huge amount of unrest. I would be splitting them up and allowing them a few days to say hi over a fence (as happened with horse 2 who was recieved more positively by the herd). If this is an option I would revert back to this to stop further dramatics.

You can't control what happens once you let your horse off into a field, having had an incredibly dominant mare in the past, the best was is a lengthy introduction over a fence before allowing them in with the herd. I certainly wouldn't have let two horses come into her herd within days of eachother as she would not have taken it well - it is all about stacking the cards in their favour.

Calmers, in my experience do not work for things like this.
 
I can't imagine the owner of the new Horse is not concerned? A calmer will not help. It sounds like your yard does not have a very good introduction procedure of new Horses. Every yard I have been on has separated the new Horse and allowed the Horses to meet over the fence for at least a week, sometimes 2 weeks if the Horses are really dominant. If I were the owner of the Horse yours in being aggressive towards I would not be happy with your YO at all!
 
Damnation said:
It is quite normal for a bit of unsettled behaviour when a new horse is introduced into a herd.

My older mare likes to chase them off "her herd" for a few days until she decides they are actually ok, thankfully this is the worst she does and I never have to really worry about her.

Personally I wouldn't have just let 2 new horses go into an established herd in very quick sucession as it would cause a huge amount of unrest. I would be splitting them up and allowing them a few days to say hi over a fence (as happened with horse 2 who was recieved more positively by the herd). If this is an option I would revert back to this to stop further dramatics.

You can't control what happens once you let your horse off into a field, having had an incredibly dominant mare in the past, the best was is a lengthy introduction over a fence before allowing them in with the herd. I certainly wouldn't have let two horses come into her herd within days of eachother as she would not have taken it well - it is all about stacking the cards in their favour.

Calmers, in my experience do not work for things like this.
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Thanks, this has made me feel a bit better as i know its normal, everyone on the yard knows its normal it just hard for me to hear that my horse has gone from chasing to attacking but the quick succession of one horse coming and going in a month (some days being turned sometimes not) and another coming within a week of that one leaving.
I know there was something happening at the field when all of this happened with new loaners letting horses lose and one rearing and injuring people so it by no means was a normal day i just dont know 100% what happened.
For the last two weeks my horse will chase the new one away occasionally and then carry on with life as normal, no aggression ect.

As for the joining of the herds (my field of 5 and another field of 5 who lived together last summer will be merging in a few week) i believe they are going to be in feild next to each other for a few days then my horse is going to be sent in alone and then the others will join of a few days (but will probably be the day after all at once i imagine :( ) .... is this a good way of doing things?
 
I would put yours in last if he is likely to be dominant, putting him in first is totally the wrong way round as it will give him the chance to be in charge of whoever is with him and may well try and see off each additional one, sometimes I wonder what YO's are thinking of with their failure to grasp simple herd dynamics or even take time to observe how they interact, if I have a dominant one it will go out last into a field it does not consider its own and then I rarely have any issues.
 
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