Herd to individual turnout

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archiesmum

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I am looking to move my horse closer to home but there is a lack of herd turnout options. How have people found their horses have found it going from herd turnout to individual? I have tried her in a pair and she was a clingy idiot so am I clutching at straws that individual turnout might work?
 
Ooh this is a hard one to judge I would say that if she is great in a group and a clingy idiot with only two that even if she appears to be OK in single turnout she will actually be suffering a lot of stress in that situation. I guess you wouldn't know until you tried, but I think I'd want an option to move quickly if it didn't work out.

If it's only to get her closer to home I don't think I'd risk it unless your current journey is becoming impossible for some reason.,
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I don’t like individual (bar some horses prefer it) no mutual grooming or horse play
Pairs is always a disaster if one horse is even mildly clingy
I can have my 2 in a pair and they are fine when I take one out but I’ve had one of mine with someone else’s and it screamed whenever mine left then stressed mine out 🙈
Prefer 3 or more
 
This is why I keep going round in circles - she likes being in a herd and whilst not 'top dog' she has her own mini herd within the herd. She can be pretty vile to others in the herd but she is happy and settled. Then I feel awful and selfish for wanting her closer to home as the drive is just too much.

The individual turnout would be next to others but in her own paddock.
 
I have to have my gelding turned out individually next to two others.
It’s not ideal but he was a stallion until 4 years ago and I don’t trust him in with others.
He can groom the other two over the fence and I’m lucky that when he does get ‘too much’ for the other two they walk away and he’s fine.
It’s not ideal but it’s better than the vet bill alternative.
What I would look at is the bringing in situation. Mine have a routine where he comes in first and goes out second and he is ok with this but he would not cope being left alone.
 
Hi my mare went on from herd turnout on our usual yard to individual turnout on the rehab yard, with other horses in the adjoining fields. I was worried about how she would find this but she has been absolutely fine. She is still currently on the rehab yard, now turned out with a gelding when previously she has just been with mares and has been absolutely fine with this. I appreciate it depends on the horse, but all options have worked for her. I would not have agreed to individual turn out unless other horses were in the adjacent fields. I previously had a share horse who lived on his own, without any other horses anywhere nearby. I subsequently found out his owner had got rid of his companion as he napped when she tried to take him out! He was not happy and I was pleased when she sold him and he was bought by someone who had other horses.
 
My boy went from herd turnout to individual but he can easily groom and play with other horses over the fence. They remove each others muzzles, head collars, fly masks and even rugs all year long 🤣 he sleeps down beside them just over the fence and yes I would prefer he was in with other horses however if other owners don’t want to share then what can you do.
 
Mine is ok with it. And not just 'fine' as in 'it suits me to believe he's fine' but he's been seen by an equine behaviourist, natural horseman trainers and the like fine as it was really important to me his mental-well being wasn't compromised.

He's technically still in a herd but spends varying amounts of time from 'some' to 'lots' of the Spring/Summer/Autumn on a bare strip grazed section on his own.

I think if they have company next door, it's much easier for them.

He's an independant sort though and can go first out, last in etc and doesn't care at all.
 
mine are all on individual turnout as I just cab to risk the injuries. my boy is nearly 26 and likes to do his own thing these days and he was getting hassled by the friesian who had nearly 17 hands could do some damage quite easily. They can still groom over the fence and I do let them in together occasionally when supervised. My mare on the other hand loves her own company and is more than happy as long as she can see the others over the fence - she would be more stressed if I put a horse in with her I think as she likes her own space!
 
I personally love it, but have always had horses that are fine with it, only as long as they have other horses over the fence. I’ve only ever been at livery though and have had some awful horses sharing our fields so have only bad experiences! If can work really well in our experience, it really depends on the horse and how much access they have to others. Our current horse has been in a bigger herd, or by herself and currently with 2 others and honestly makes no difference to her behaviour etc.

I personally prefer sole turnout it as no dramas getting in etc with other horses trying to escape at the gate, less injury risk, easier to control worms/parasites as no shared grazing (our yard doesn’t have a proper worming programme everyone does their own thing) and less rug damage as we have a rug ripper in the herd!
 
Hi, I just started a similar thread before spotting this one. We've just made this change. We weighed it up for ages and concluded that she has never been one to enjoy physical contact with other horses, no mutual grooming or anything, and she is pretty tetchy with others generally so we concluded she would be fine as there are other horses in adjacent paddocks.

I think she is mostly fine but today when we went to catch her from her paddock she pinned her ears with a proper mareish grump on her face, and not just once. This isn't like her (not with humans). My theory is that this is now "her" space and she is trying to assert herself as top horse of our little herd. (She's never been boss in any herd). Is this mad?
 
bonnysmum said:
Hi, I just started a similar thread before spotting this one. We've just made this change. We weighed it up for ages and concluded that she has never been one to enjoy physical contact with other horses, no mutual grooming or anything, and she is pretty tetchy with others generally so we concluded she would be fine as there are other horses in adjacent paddocks.

I think she is mostly fine but today when we went to catch her from her paddock she pinned her ears with a proper mareish grump on her face, and not just once. This isn't like her (not with humans). My theory is that this is now "her" space and she is trying to assert herself as top horse of our little herd. (She's never been boss in any herd). Is this mad?
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Horse gets removed from herd turnout (the environment that the vast majority of horses preferred because that’s what they’re genetically designed to have), horse consequently starts showing pretty overt signs of stress, such as what she’s doing to you.

Just because a horse doesn’t seem to enjoy physical contact with other horses doesn’t mean they’ll be fine on individual turnout. Taking them away from a herd means taking them away from having relationships with other horses, limiting their ability to graze and stand in close proximity with other horses (which is as much of an affiliative behaviour as grooming), and reducing the extent to which they can initiate movement with other horses or receive confidence from other horses if there’s a stressor.

What are you basing your assumption that she’s “mostly fine” on? Because a horse doesn’t need to be running up and down the fence line screaming to be stressed.
 
Excuse me @stangs? Firstly please don't assume this was a decision taken lightly! Life is not simple and there can be serious decisions to be taken (such as the herd turnout preventing essential management changes being made for the horse's health, and it being impossible to monitor said horse daily due to the distances involved). There were many many factors involved and a huge amount of deliberation before we moved her, just as the OP is doing right now. So kindly lose the tone in reply to a genuine question.

Secondly, she can see and be in close proximity to other horses at all times including nose to nose over the fence. She has been on individual turnout before for health reasons for weeks at a time and never shown these signs. And I know my horse, so until yesterday she had been acting exactly like herself which is why it is only yesterday that I started to wonder and pose this question.
 
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archiesmum said:
I am looking to move my horse closer to home but there is a lack of herd turnout options. How have people found their horses have found it going from herd turnout to individual? I have tried her in a pair and she was a clingy idiot so am I clutching at straws that individual turnout might work?
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Well my boy went from individual turnout to herd for 20 months when I retired him and now he's come back to me and 'home' where he was previous to retirement into individual turnout and seems very confident, happy and content. He can touch others in the paddocks next door and groom as he did it before and although his previous neighbours are gone he doesn't seem bothered in the slightest.

He wasn't calling out for his missing friends, settled back in, in a nano second and I get the impression he's content having his own stable and paddock and not having to vy for attention or food resources. And extra attention from me.

Before he went to retirement because I was on a different time schedule to everyone else (due to my hours of work and being unable to ride him) Lari was often turned out without anything in sight of him for an hour or two until orhers had finished riding and turned out and he never cared or batted an eyelid.

I'd be more wary now doing so, but I'm sure he'd be fine. He's always been a very independent type of horse though.

I'm sure your horse will be fine.
 
archiesmum said:
This is why I keep going round in circles - she likes being in a herd and whilst not 'top dog' she has her own mini herd within the herd. She can be pretty vile to others in the herd but she is happy and settled. Then I feel awful and selfish for wanting her closer to home as the drive is just too much.

The individual turnout would be next to others but in her own paddock.
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If it doesn't work out can you quickly go back or will you be stuck?

It's a big risk if you can't back out, she'll pay the price for it and so might you with vet bills for ulcers or injuries.

It's no use other people telling you that their horses are fine with it. Some are, some aren't, some are (the owner thinks) until they are given company when they go crazy with separation anxiety. You won't know until you try it.
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My old boy (now over rainbow bridge) went from herd to individual a number of years ago. It wasn’t something I ideally wanted and I really agonised over the decision. He was absolutely fine and settled straight away. He could touch and groom over the fence even though electric. Overall he was happier than the previous yard t/o where it was like a bog in winter and he was kicked resulting in a bone chip. He never really settled at that yard whereas he settled straight away at the second yard.

However when I got my second horse a few years later and they went out together it was so lovely to see how much they adored each other and I could see how he missed out on that companionship. As they were other mine managing separation was easier. Latterly I tried my new young horse out with him and it was a disaster they just did not get on. Now they’re on separate yards in totally different set-ups.

Even though individual is not ideal I’m not sure it’s any less natural than throwing a random group of horses together and expecting them to get on and not be stressed. On livery yards you don’t really get to choose and neither does your horse.
 
I changed my mind on individual turnout after lock down.
Your horse has to live at the yard 24/7/365 - yes travel may be a pain but is that additional time for you worth more to you than a contended pony?
You are obviously a lovely owner whom wants to do their best, else you would not be asking.
X
 
stangs said:
Horse gets removed from herd turnout (the environment that the vast majority of horses preferred because that’s what they’re genetically designed to have), horse consequently starts showing pretty overt signs of stress, such as what she’s doing to you.
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Not wanting to hijack this thread, but also aware that my own thread asking a similar question yesterday is duplication, can I just pick up on this and ask if anyone else has seen mareish ear pinning behaviour as a reaction to stress caused by individual turnout (with neighbours)? This was my reason for starting a thread of my own yesterday.

In terms of stress I would be keeping an eye out for my mare whinnying, pacing, not eating as well as normal, dull eyes, depressed demeanour and, from experience with her, being overly pleased to see us. Pinned ears telling us to p*ss off was not something that was previously on my radar in this particular context.

As I said apologies for any hijack and anyone feel free to find my own thread to share experiences but I figure this will also be of interest to the OP.
 
Gingerwitch said:
I changed my mind on individual turnout after lock down.
Your horse has to live at the yard 24/7/365 - yes travel may be a pain but is that additional time for you worth more to you than a contended pony?
You are obviously a lovely owner whom wants to do their best, else you would not be asking.
X
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This is such a key point! For an already settled horse I'd worry about rocking the boat.

Sussexbythesea said:
Even though individual is not ideal I’m not sure it’s any less natural than throwing a random group of horses together and expecting them to get on and not be stressed. On livery yards you don’t really get to choose and neither does your horse.
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I think this in part comes down to how well managed a yard is, which goes back to the points on that other thread about horses' needs not being met. I would have thought a good yard can make adjustments for which horses go out together and know which combinations don't work.

I struggle with the idea of individual turnout. One of my worries is smaller spaces for the horses to move around on. Not sure if this example fully makes sense but if you had two horses on two acres, I would have thought better for them both to have the full space to roam about on rather than one acre each.
 
bonnysmum said:
Not wanting to hijack this thread, but also aware that my own thread asking a similar question yesterday is duplication, can I just pick up on this and ask if anyone else has seen mareish ear pinning behaviour as a reaction to stress caused by individual turnout (with neighbours)? This was my reason for starting a thread of my own yesterday.

In terms of stress I would be keeping an eye out for my mare whinnying, pacing, not eating as well as normal, dull eyes, depressed demeanour and, from experience with her, being overly pleased to see us. Pinned ears telling us to p*ss off was not something that was previously on my radar in this particular context.

As I said apologies for any hijack and anyone feel free to find my own thread to share experiences but I figure this will also be of interest to the OP.
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For info, I think we have a possible colic here so I'm calling vet. Fingers crossed it isn't.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
This is such a key point! For an already settled horse I'd worry about rocking the boat.


I think this in part comes down to how well managed a yard is, which goes back to the points on that other thread about horses' needs not being met. I would have thought a good yard can make adjustments for which horses go out together and know which combinations don't work.

I struggle with the idea of individual turnout. One of my worries is smaller spaces for the horses to move around on. Not sure if this example fully makes sense but if you had two horses on two acres, I would have thought better for them both to have the full space to roam about on rather than one acre each.
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The ideal is a nice stable herd where they know their pecking order. I’ve luckily got that for one of my horses and I absolutely love it as does he but it’s not something I’ve really had before. He is still pretty herd bound though so taking him away causes a lot of stress for him and me.

Definitely good yard management plays a part in herd management but often there isn’t good management or just genuinely not enough options at a particular yard. That’s been my experience in a few cases. I’ve had horses with severe kick injuries, not been able to extricate my horse safely due to a gate bully, never mind yard politics over poo-picking! rarely do they have large enough paddocks for herd turnout.

Regarding larger paddocks for more horse when mine were in together they actually had a smaller paddock. I had 4 paddocks of around 1/2 acre each (2 each winter and summer) not all equal and so I had 2 together on half an acre at a time.

To add it’s not like wild horses live in a stressless nirvana. They may be very hot or very cold they may struggle to find food and water, in many countries they are susceptible to attack by predators including man. Forest fires/ drought / injury/ disease/ complications at birthing etc. etc. everything we subject our horses to can stress them.

Stress is a part of life and we can minimise it but not get rid of it altogether.
 
I know my 2 would be stressed turned out alone so it would be cruel of me to attempt it but it maybe works for some. I would be worried if your horse is sociable with others so you would need to keep a very close eye on her and watch out for any stress signals. Mine show very obvious signs (fence walking, neighing etc) but not all do.

@bonnysmum i hope it’s not colic and you’re mare is ok.
I think your list is obvious signs of being unhappy but it is so individual for each horse and probably especially when dealing with a mare. It may look like there’s no signs at all but they could be there. I take my horse past a solo pony after the other one passed away and to me she doesn’t seem that happy but her owner is adamant she’s fine because she never interacted with the old horse. Maybe seeing her everyday means she’s missed signals or else maybe I’m wrong and she knows her horse better and she is fine.

It could be that the stress of individual turnout has started ulcers and the pain increasing has caused her unhappy reaction. It could be she feels she needs to be defensive of her paddock now she is the sole inhabitant. The ears back could be any number of other things really (hopefully not colic) but I wouldn’t rule out unhappiness about her current turnout. A second set of eyes on her by someone you trust maybe wouldn’t hurt. She may act differently when you’re around being her human therefore you miss something.
Please let us know how you get on with the vet.
 
Peglo said:
I think your list is obvious signs of being unhappy
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Absolutely agree, the point being she isn't and hasn't been exhibiting any of those signs 🙂, only the ear pinning yesterday that I mentioned and some unusual rolling this morning that worried me.

Happy to say I spoke to the vet and described what we've been seeing yesterday and this morning and he isn't too concerned and suggested a watch & wait approach. Over the few hours we've been watching her this morning she's gone back to normal, so we've gone ahead with our plan for today of moving her out of her temporary isolation area and into the area directly next to two geldings. Cue her typical p*ss off behaviour that I'm used to seeing from her with other horses. She's settled now and grazing and can reach her neighbours over the fence (if she wants to) so we will see how she goes. It's always been the plan to get her a field companion although that in itself is all little nerve wracking.

OP I hope this commentary of a current experience and the factors that were part of our decision will help you decide what to do. To the people suggesting it's a little selfish to want less of a drive I couldn't disagree more. It directly affects welfare when you can't go every day to check your horse, monitor weather and temperatures directly, put on/take off rugs, control hay intake, check breathing frequently if it seems a bit off (my horse has seasonal asthma). Basically all the kinds of things that I bet the OP is weighing up alongside the driving time.
 
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bonnysmum said:
Absolutely agree, the point being she isn't and hasn't been exhibiting any of those signs 🙂, only the ear pinning yesterday that I mentioned and some unusual rolling this morning that worried me.
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Just realised I misinterpreted what you were saying @Peglo and it's too late to edit now, anyhow I'm now hopeful that yesterday was a wee blip and she's settled down again. I would prefer she was still in a herd but for her health and welfare on balance I'm happier to have her closer. It's a judgement call isn't it, made very much more difficult by a hopeless lack of options in many areas of the country.
 
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