Heres one for you... Horses in versus Horses Out! (Long One btw)

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Tierra

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Several years ago (i was in my teens!) a very good friend of mine bought her son an ex JA pony. The pony was in her teens at the time. She came with the strict instructions of "she doesn't like to go out". Now, we assumed this was an over protective "mummy" and said pony was turned out (alone) after a few days..... she soon jumped the fence and headed straight back to the yard. We assumed perhaps she was lonely or still unsettled...

Different combinations were tried with this pony for quite some time before the owners took the decision to stable her. 10+ years on the pony is still the same. If you turn her out, she'll either jump out and head to her box or she paces up and down and gets herself into a state. Shes perfectly happy and nice to deal with when stabled might i add.

My next "encounter" with this philosophy was a couple of months back at my trainers yard in the UK. One of the UK pony riders who is taught by said trainer brought her new horse + another to stay for a while. Neither of these horses were to go out. I got speaking to the girls mum one day and asked her why they stayed in. One of the horses had been with them a while and was extremely accident prone to the point that they were concerned that he was running out of "lives". They decided after his last major injury last summer to try and keep him in. The second was a grand prix dressage horse on loan from one of the UK team riders.... the owner of this horse didnt turn out and as such, the loan horse wasnt to go out.

I asked how they adjusted and both mum and daughter said that while the horse that had been with them a long time took a few weeks... he was now happy in his new routine. (From my own observations, said horses didn't appear stressed, hyper or anything really... just content)

Now... I moved to Denmark a few weeks ago and brought my little horse with me. We found a lovely yard that's absolutly perfect with exception to one tiny (but major in my eyes) issue... their turnout is limited. You have a couple of choices...

1) They can go out all day on a field that EVERYONE uses. Its upto the owners to sort this out. So basically, you could put your horse out first thing on his own and during the course of the day, lots of other horses could be in and out of the field - no seperation for mares or geldings. I dont think anyone uses this option. Ive seen people take their horses up there and let them loose for an hour.. but they stay with them and take them in if someone else wants to let them out.

2) They can go on a rota for the two paddocks currently in use. Here they get a maximum of 2 hours (depending on how many want to go out in a day). You pay the grooms extra for this and the horses go out individually or in pairs.

Very few people use this option either...

From the end of the month, we move to summer fields where they get a guarenteed 2 hours of individual turnout on lovely grassy fields divided up into small paddocks.

Now - I admit from word go i was concerned. Jack has come from a yard where he was out 6 hours a day minimum. I wasnt always happy about this... last year we lost 8 months due to injury after injury (generally something kicking him); but individual turnout wasnt an option and nor was keeping them in.

I loved the idea of the individual turnout where i am.. but didnt think it would be enough for him.

When i started to meet and speak to people on the yard it became quite obvious that most of the horses dont go out. Quite a few have a roll and a play in one of the indoor schools but very few go out.

This didnt particularly shock me as Ive been aware for a long time that in countries such as Holland and Germany, keeping horses in is just the norm.

The people there found it terribly amusing that i was so concerned about turnout. I was greeted with a lot of "mine isn't really bothered" or "his "herd" friends are in and he prefers being in with them".

Two weeks on and i have to say, we have zero stressed horses... They're all happy, content, working well and generally show zero signs of stress at all. Mine? he's fit right in! He has one hour on the walker a day... and we are paying a groom to turn him out but for the full time he's out, he paces by the gate yelling. For the immediate future, he's still being turned out as im still aware that he may not have fully settled... but he's happy, being an angel to work... playing through the bars with his new "friends" and generally, im pleasantly surprised.

Its always been an emotive subject for me. I had a horse kicked in the field who subsequently had to be PTS. One i sold on (and loved dearly) had the same happen early this year. Ive had so many field related injuries (in the sense of other horses causing the damage) but ive ALWAYS maintained that they're horses, there are risks and they should be out! Now im completly having my beliefs challenged by people with a lot of experience and happy horsies!

So! What do people think about this? Lots of other European countries do stable their horses much more than we do in the UK. I always thought this was an awful thing but now, seeing the horses, Im undecided. Is it just something they adjust to? Do WE as owners get more comfort from them being out than they do? Is it because their "herd" are primarily stabled and so they want to be with their friends?

Id love some thoughts on this... particularly if anyone out there does keep (or has kept) theirs in full time.
 
Ours all go out for about 4-5 hours each every day unless the weather is bad or the fields get very wet. We've found that so long as the whole yard is on the same routine, we have very happy and contented horses. If they all have to stay in for a week they really dont seem to mind, their temperaments dont change and they have the same attitude to work.
Boss doesnt go out in the winter as he wont wear a rug and he doesnt seem to mind- he likes his stable, it's his comfort zone. Of course he's exercised every day and he likes to go grazing in hand but 'field time' or lack of really doesnt affect his mood/apparent stress levels.

I know some horses wont tolerate being in the stable but tbh, even if we get in stressy youngsters that the owners say box walk etc, after a few days in a solid routine, they settle very well and nothing ever stays stressy.
 
An interesting post. I have always believed in maximum turnout and in a group. allum was grazed seperately, although just with a tape in between, in new place. Seemed unahappy. In with friends. Cheered up. Got BADLY kicked and now seperate again. Seems happy though. Its possible I supose, thats its routine they like and so long as they get exercised and everything else is satisfactory most will settle.
 
i think that all horses are individuals but many will tolerate being kept in 24/7 if they are in nice surroundings (not stuck at the back of a dark dingy barn with no horses near to 'talk' to)
others hate it,

my mare tolerates living in VERY well (all that food!) she doesnt stress, doesnt crib/weave/walk, is nice to ride etc etc and she lived out for the first 7 years of her life!
i do like her to have the oppitunity to have time out with a 'gang' (as long as she doesnt get bullied)
but she is miserable out on her own.

she is on loan and she is down as in at night - out during the day but i have always said that if the weathers pants shes much happier tucked up with a haynet and a big rug on!

on the other extreem a friend has a pony (welsh dX) who will simply not tolerate being kept in, he becomes angry, bargy naughty to ride etc, and yet well rugged and kept out and he is an angel.

i say if your horse is happy then you are happy and thats the most important thing.
 
Mine are out 24/7 in a group of 10 and are very happy.

The bay would be fine in or out I imagine, he is so laid back, the black one, as soon as there is no food he wants to go back out!
 
bet that these horses are happy in because their feeding is right and matches their exercise routine

I keep a lot of mine in for various reasons (laminitis, agrophobic (very similar to the jumping pony you describe), huge accident history, breathing problems to the point that an hours ride is enough to send him into coughs so turnout is totally out from feb thru to oct)

I grew up with stabled horses - many in mews straight stalls - and these horses were all perfectly happy.

I also agree that the risks associated with mixed - particularly changing - herds is unacceptable and none of mine are turned out together - all in sight of another horse (or sheep) but not together even if unshod

I have no injuries, no shredded rugs and no unhappy horses

It also means that if your horse does have to have box rest due to a competition injury it is settled in it's stable and does 'REST' and not run round it's box behaving like a spoilt brat and throwing it's toys out of the pram

horses need routine and fibre forage to eat 16 hours a day - turnout is incidental to this - not essential
 
I believe personally that horses, cats, dogs, humans and other creatures shouldn't be couped up all day. However many of us don't have the luxury of full time freedom and many animals and humans for that matter survive very well to the conditions that present to them.

However, I find that my horsey prefers to be out and although he doesn't mind his stable, he is better when he has been out all day, so therefore going to try him living out.

It depends on the horse really, you will soon know what suits him best x
 
Personally I would far rather see my horse out at grass for as long as he is happy with. He is happy to be out and relaxing, keeping himself mobile and eating grass that is not too lush. There are SJ horses at our livery yd that are only out for a couple of hrs a day. I am not sure the rationale for this but personally I feel my horse has the better deal. In the summer I will have him out all the time except the very hottest part of the day 10-3....
I would not like to see my horse in 24/7 (except for ridden exercise) - I think it is almost like us being shut in a tiny room all day.
Having said that, I guess there are some horses that do not enjoy being out or for health reasons they stay in.
 
Mines out 24/7. Ive only had him since december so I dont know what he is used to. But as long as he has enough to eat he's very happy.
I dont agree with disrupting herds, thin k it causes a lot of problems. As do horses that werent properly socialised as babies. We have a couple on our yard. Warmbloods, cant go out with more than one other horse as they try and kill it.
 
I think horses are quick to adapt and like a routine. Chex has been in a starvation field during the day, and a big field at night - every morning he is waiting patiently at the gate to be let into his starvation paddock. Now I don't for a mintue believe he is happier in the tiny field with no grass, but for him it is routine, so he is fine with that. I think its the same for stabled horses, they just adapt, and most don't seem particularly bothered. However I just don't think thats right. I thinks its so sad some horses don't get the chance to gallop madly around the field with their pals, playing and having a right good time. Watching them play its clear how much they enjoy it. Even in winter Chex is turned out for at least 12 hours a day in a mixed herd, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Interesting post.

In an ideal world - i.e. if I had my own land/buildings - I would allow my horses to decide themselves by providing open plan barns/hard standing and fields. However I'm nowhere near able to afford that luxury. My two are out most days in the summer for about 4/5 hours. I did try them out 24/7 but one of them sliced his cheek open on the first night and nicked his leg on the second. Plus my older horse spent the next day in his stable snoozing so he clearly didn't get much kip out in the field over night. Both are very happy to come in at night and neither seem to enjoy being out in the rain. One of them was shivering on Sunday afternoon after being out in the rain all day, despite having a turnout rug on and not having been clipped.

I think horses turned out 24/7 in deep mud is arguably as potentially damaging to a horse as being in 24 hrs but having exercise. Horses evolved in a dry climate hence the propensity in this country for mud rash and poor feet condition.

Each horse is different and some clearly don't tolerate being stabled whereas others are much happier. What I don't like is the 'natural' horsey people who think anyone who doesn't keep their horses out 24/7 are deficient owners. I keep my horses for one reason and that's to ride. If they constantly injure themselves in the field meaning they have to have time off work then I don't see much point in owning them. That might not be the most natural thing for the horse but frankly that's tough. I only ever turn my two out together, splitting their field from the other horses. I'd never want them out in a big group and certainly not a mixed sex herd. Recipe for disaster for my two.
 
I think horses thrive on routine, maybe more so than how they are kept (in or out). My friend's horse is a German TB and he wasn't turned out in Germany at all. He's now 23 and has lived in England for years and years, but won't stay turned out for long and certainly not in a large area as it just freaks him out, he's far too used to being indoors. I know his owner would dearly love to be able to turn him out, and has had some nasty things said about her especially from yard "newbies" about they way she keeps her horse, but he's far too stuck in his routine to change it. Whereas my horse (as far as I know) was always kept turned out for the first 10 years of her life, until I bought her when she has been part stabled for 8 months which she coped with fine (we like our routine so she soon settled), but she has been on box rest for almost 3 months now and although she is in a routine, she hates it. She is getting more and more crazy, hard to handle, stroppy, strong, violent (will hit you with her head if you go near her if she's in a bad mood) and is generally not the horse I bought almost a year ago. Another friend's horse though is 19 now and is a total wuss, although she likes being out in the field for a while, leave her for more than an hour and she tries to bring herself back in! I think to an extent it depends on the horse's attitude and personality, but also a lot on how they have been brought up and what routine they're used to.
 
I think it's better for them to be out. But I know it can be frustrating with the injuries and I would ocnsider individual turnout, but I think that while they can seem content it is perhaps (this is just a theory) a form of depression. My big lad has been on box rest occasionally and after the first day or two, settles, but I just feel maximum turnout is healthier
 
I don't understand how anyone can claim their horses are happy in or out unless you let them decide for themselves. Just because your horse doesn't show any vices does that mean they are happy??? Many yards are very easily converted to allow horses their freedom to choose and you will be absolutely stunned by how different your horse behaves when it is truly free and happy.

I have owned my horse for 16 years and have kept him on all sorts of yards, he's been in 24hours a day, out 24 hours a day and a combination of both at various yards. Two years ago I leased a yard with a friend and our horses now have the choice to go in their stables or out on the yard or in the paddock whenever they like. They have lived like this for two years all year round and they have completely changed their personalities. They are unbelievably relaxed and truly enjoy our company. When we go to the yard they choose to come in and see us and will follow us around as we do our jobs. Our headcollars have cobwebs on them as they are never used. I absolutely know for a fact that my horse wants to be with me as he can walk away at any time but chooses not to. And no, he isn't thinking I'm going to feed him as he doesn't get hard feed.

I can truly say my horse is happy.... the surprising thing is we have advertised for liveries for a year and no one else wants to keep their horse in this way. People seem to want to dictate what makes their horse happy rather than finding out for themselves!!!
 
My two are currently stabled full time due to recent laminitis. The pony isn't too bothered so long as she gets to go out and relax (a walk and a lunge a day + some time tied up outside to enjoy the fresh air and she's ok). My horse took weeks to settle (stressed, walking, loose droppings etc). She's coping, but isn't really happy, and is completely loopy when ridden. She never has liked being stabled, even overnight, and is only really coping now because her best friend is stabled next door.

Interestingly, we had the chance for a few weeks when they first came in to stable them together in one large box. No problems, no stress, nothing. So for me, the conclusion was that it's less about being outside, and more about equine company.

I would like (ideally) a cosy field shelter with a woodchip paddock for them to be in most of the time, then access to a field for a few hours a day. That would control the lami risk but give them freedom and companionship the rest of the time.
 
See, ours do have excellent companionship in our stable set up.

They're in an american barn setting with the partitions between the boxes half barred allowing them full view up and down the aisles and to talk to their immediate neighbours.

In regards to the depression theory... its interesting but in this case, i really dont think its whats happening. I know my horse inside out... his work is arguably better since we've moved as he seems more relaxed. Ive got a psych degree and also took courses in animal behaviour and these horses show zero signs of stress.

Soooo yea i guess what i was asking was whether people believe its more the contact and companionship of a herd environment as opposed to the "being out" issue.

I know a lot of people hold the view that they should be ok, and thats ok.. i expected a lot of replies along those lines. However, if (in the case of my friends horse) a horse genuinely doesnt like being out, should it be forced? Also, do remember that there are a number of countries that do keep their horses in nearly 100% of the time and I dont believe that all these people have zero regard for their horses welfare.

I dunno know... its an interesting one... and as i said, for now, my horse will still get thrown out everyday (although he doesnt appear to be enjoying it!). If he still doesnt seem to enjoy it long term though.. im not sure!
 
Airedale i think you have a very good point there btw. Ive never seen such attention to detail taken over feed at the UK yards ive been on - although im SURE there are yards that do.

They're usually happily munching... they all have toys in their boxes... they all have contact with other horses and they're HAPPY.

However as someone who comes from the school of thought that they should be out, it feels like quite a moral dilema for me to a) be on a yard where most dont feel like i have and b) to be faced with my own horse seeming to be much happier in than he is out!
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