High head carrage..nose out...!

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helenhorse

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Hi, we've just bought yet another investment.....and she has done everything 7yo...but not been ridden since march.....shehas a very high head carrage at times and sticks her nose out..as she hasnt been asked to bring it in previously....problem is that she also has a soft mouth so hwne you ask her to drop her nose she just swings her head about.. and you have to ride her for an hours straight before she starts listening( as most warmbloods do, you might have noticed) and thinking about yelding to your aids for her to drop her nose.....what exercises...bits etc could i use in order to get her dropping her nose and neck??...i wouldnt like to put side reins etc (gadgets) on her if possible as she has a soft mouth and will just fight....
thansk alot! xxxx
 
has she had her teeth and back done? Is her tack fitted correctly?

My horse is lovely and soft in the mouth but I have been trying out different bits for breaks and I tried a 3 ring gag on the snaffle ring and he wouldn't soften at all!
I put his french link loose ring snaffle back in and he was there straight away!
 
yerp..al fine....saddle fits...sheepskin pads...snug bridle..vet checked....teeth...she just loves her work and likes to see things if you knw what i mean lol!.....even tho shes got a soft mouth do you reckon she will yeild to a different bit? shes ridden in a hanging cheek/snaffle
 
Some people won't agree with this, but I would try lowering your hands and widening them, and encouraging her to lower her head. If she swings her head, then just wiggle very quietly with your fingers, not your hands.
 
My friend's daughters pony is in a hanging cheek snaffle. She was at a show the other day and I said that she wasn't accepting the bit, so I got on her and she is definately avoiding it. So she has put her in a plain snaffle and she's working lovely. I think its good to change them every now and then.

I do actually think some horses have a natural high head carraige though. I know Bear has.
 
You could try a martingale on her as my mare has the exact same problem & is also very soft in the mouth. To the point where you only have to squeeze the reins to halt her. She is extremely sensitive but she doesn't seem to mind the martingale.


As I said, mine is exactly the same, she will stargaze quite badly & fights for her head at times. As she is so sensitive she hates fidgety hands & will pull against a rider who has them, you have to be very quiet with her.

Mine is in a snaffle (with the discs to stop her getting her tongue over the bit) so you could try yours in a snaffle with a martingale & see if that helps?

Good luck xx

ETA; Mine is in a running martingale We tried her in a standing one thinking that she would hate the action that the running martingale has on the bit but peculiarly, she went much better in the running martingale although it may be worth you trying both to see which yours goes better in
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shes in a hunting nartingale and just takes the p**s out of it....it doesnt do anything
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.....shes numb when in halt and i try to lower her head.....what about putting a Dr Bristol on her? worked with my young TB?? what you think peeps?..shes also not bending through..shes sensitive to my leg but falls in wen i ask for bend round a corner?
 

You could try a Dr Bristol but if she has as sensitive a mouth as you say then it might be worth trying her in a hackamore. Maybe she just doesn't like the contact of the bit?

Also, how thick is the mouthpiece? It could be that the mouthpiece is too thick for her to accommodate?
 
its fairly thin..as you know a hanging cheek is quite a small device for a bit isnt it....when walking/hacking and shes relxed and seen everything..shes come down to me and il reward by releasing the contact but when shes seen something or going forward it comes straight back up and im finding hard keeping it there without forcing and arguing with her.....
any advice is welcome:):)
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thanks so far
 
I wouldn't try her in a Dr Bristol if she is sensitive in the mouth as although it is good for forward going horses it is quite strong so although it may work by holding her back it may create more problems by being too strong for her as her mouth is so sensitive.

How tight is the martingale? Obviously you don't want to force her head down but if it's too loose it won't come into action.

Rather than putting stronger bits in her mouth I would go for these options;

Try her in a snaffle in the school or somewhere similarly fenced in & safe in case she objects to it/you end up with no brakes.

Check the fit of the martingale & consider trying her in a hackamore. A lot of horses just do not take to having a bit, ever.

Try lunging her in side reins fairly loosely fitted & encourage her to stretch down through her back & into an outline rather than head up fighting all contact.

If I think of anything more I'll let you know but they are the only options that have come to me at the moment.

(Edited for spelling
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Ok great..il see what shes like in a snaffle then first...the martingale is tight. her breaks are easy its just shes numb when softening to my hand..like in halt il try and get her head down and the bit just slides back and forth in her mouth...she just doesnt care but she has yeilded in halt a few times..... When i lunge with side reins is it better to have
girth: bit: saddle or

Bit:saddle........
i also have a standing martingale lurcking round somewhere..would that help??

any exercises i could do????
...no sores
thanks alot!!
 
I would personally lunge with saddle bridle and side reins.
I wouldn't try a standing martingale as you are just covering up the problem instead of trying to fix it.I spose if she still doesn't listen after a few sessions and she's just a star gazer then maybe try a standing one.


Good luck!
 
Do you have a roller? That may be better for attaching the side reins to as you have more options on position. If not then attach them to the saddle D's at the front or the girth. Start off with them fairly loose & as she relaxes more, tighten them so there is more of a contact but be careful not to overdo it.

I would definitely get the ones with elastic inserts if you don't already have them as they mimic the give & take action of a riders hands & she won't get jabbed in the mouth if she decides to snatch at the bit as she would with ordinary side reins.

I would first off try her in the standing martingale & snaffle though as my mare is the same & she goes really well in that. In addition do some lunging with her & encourage her to take up the contact then as she gets better you may find you no longer need the standing martingale. If she goes well in the snaffle/martingale combo then that is a solution for now for riding her but definitely lunge her to school her into the idea that contact is good & nothing to be afraid of.

Rather than giving a solid halt signal have you tried the give take method? You squeeze the reins & give again, squeeze, give, squeeze give etc etc. It may make her listen more than if you simply pulled the reins in a solid 'ask' if you like.

 
yh thanks..my method is give and take i never 'puuullll' or 'naaaaaggggg!'..lol..thanks for that i wil start loose and then work in to about right....thanks alot...
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..your all stars!
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I would put her in a nice kind nathe straight bar snaffle and take her right back to basics, long rien her and get her soft on the ground before you try ridden work, once this is established then start work in walk ridden, she obviously doesnt trust the contact so you have to keep you hands quiet, still and constant, get her working from you legs and hopefully she will settle
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Thanks for that....shes not tense or anything..shes just naturally forward going and has a high head carrage..which is why she cnt understand why i want her head down, when she cn be exploring and looking at things..geez us humans just dont understand
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!!!
thanks for the advice....when she does decide to listen and do as i say she will normally hold it untill the next interesting thing passes by and iv lost the contact once again...and have to ask again...
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......will keep you posted!!
 
My new horse can be a bit like this in trot if the yard is busy - am investing in some lessons!

I have her in a really soft bit and have been advised to keep my hands still, wide and low and to gain control of her shoulders by using my outside leg a little further forward to help her to turn her shoulders and also spiraling a circle down and leg yielding back out gain, being carefull to keep my hands soft, wide and low.

This seems to be helping so far! As soon as I have control of her shoulders, she relaxes and softens onto the bit natrually.

Hope this helps
x
 
Trotting poles! These worked wonders with my mare. She is an ex racer and to encourage her to stride out, lower her head and work over her back I used to ride and lunger her over trotting poles until she realised what my aids ment. And then I started lunging her in side reins (loose side reins, but attached to the ring between her legs / girth), this means that she has alot of freedom with her head, but as long as it doesn't come up too high.
Hope this helps!
 
I persuaded the current Appy to loser her head and to loose the ewe neck by using a french link snaffle, then a myler comfort snaffle, with quite high hands, which she still prefers.
 

Have you tried a Sprenger bit? I use one for my Warmblood its a simple Link snaffle but the shape and design of them mean they sit in the horses mouth perfectly, and the shape of the link means unlike standard French link it does not pinch the toungue (Sprenger if reading this I should be on commission here!) my horse goes a treat in his. You can buy the bits from Ebay (Horse Heaven) from lovely lady called Maria.
 
sorry i'm confused why do you think 'gadgets' will damage a soft mouth????

IMO bad hands will do more damage and wiggley contact........... that's probably why she wiggles her head around...

I personnel would lunge, not for long but to allow new muscle development.............

Side riens (bunge ones) will give consitant contact and horse will so click that longer and lower is better with softer contact........ plus you'll have horse working over back and building up correct muscles so therefore will be much more able to carry oneself and looking for contact instead of fight....

What about even long riening,

I'm sorry but so called gadget defo have there place......... it's just you're probably seen them used wrongly. If used in correct way and for right reason they defo add to horse training in building up correct frame so when you school them then have very good core muscle and balence....

plus excellent way to work with your horses form ground
 
hi.. I am on the side of those who advocate a sprenger type soft bit with No gadgets.

I bought a horse end last year who I found out had terrible dentition, and I mean terrible! I sent her to someone to school and because she was running through the bit with head in air they put her in stronger and stronger bit! I didnt agree with this so I have since gone to a dressage yard of the german training methodology to get some help as the mare has paces to die for and they removed the stronger bit and martingale immediately!!!!

In 4 weeks she is now able to be ridden in her sprenger, without gadgets and is much happier, she is ridden from the legs with soft quiet hands, I did my first dressage test on her this week to gain 60% and it wasnt by any means perfect... so there is hope and forcing her into an outline is a short term solution... I hope that helps a little... we all go on our own experiences so listening to everyone is not a bad thing, you just have to make your own mind up which way you want to go.

Good luck xxx
 
hi, iv cracked the nose pocking out issue!! yeyh..im giving the rein when she lowrrs her head and holding down when she throws her head up which really works!! thanks for all your advice!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
sorry i'm confused why do you think 'gadgets' will damage a soft mouth????

IMO bad hands will do more damage and wiggley contact........... that's probably why she wiggles her head around...

I personnel would lunge, not for long but to allow new muscle development.............

Side riens (bunge ones) will give consitant contact and horse will so click that longer and lower is better with softer contact........ plus you'll have horse working over back and building up correct muscles so therefore will be much more able to carry oneself and looking for contact instead of fight....

What about even long riening,

I'm sorry but so called gadget defo have there place......... it's just you're probably seen them used wrongly. If used in correct way and for right reason they defo add to horse training in building up correct frame so when you school them then have very good core muscle and balence....

plus excellent way to work with your horses form ground

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks foe that but with out the use of gadgets and different methods i have had her dropping her nose and listening to me by just softneing my hand and lowering my hand. giving when she drops and restraining when she throws her head....it has worked and i am very greatful to all of you for helping me...please look at the pics in new lunge:):)
 
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