Hind End Exercises

[finngle]

Was wondering if anyone had any tips for hind rnd work for a tricky horse.
I broke him myself and he has a cold back which improves with work, He has always hunched his back when going from trot to walk and from the day i sat on him has held his head slightly overbent making his neck huge and his back side is still triangle 3 years later.
He will use himself for big grids and raised poles (however he has worked out they just knock down if he cant be bothered) yet it doesnt translate into flatwork, its a fight to get him to leg yield but he will do it evebtually, if you try to collect his canter he will simply lead change. However he will do a gorgeous extended trot where you can feel him really work.
He will try for the interesting stuff - galloping, hunt jumps, extended trot!

He is very soft in the mouth yet is equally strong when it suits..

So any tips and tricks for a smart 17.2 tb would be fab as Im stuck with this boy!

Nb. I know it sounds like a back problem, but hes been checked, teeth checked etc. some idiot scared him as a baby by bouncing on his back and from then he went from perfect to I couldnt even put a saddle on him without him going nuts. 2 1/2 years on you wouldnt know he was cold backed unless you gave him two weeks off work, but I would really like to see a muscled hind to go with his neck as Im positive it'll really help his jumping.

 

[be positive]

If he is so well developed in front and finds working from behind that difficult I would question whether there is an issue somewhere that has not yet been found, I would have expected some improvement behind to happen naturally if he is hunting and jumping well.
It sounds as if you are doing all the normal things although you do not mention hacking or hillwork which would probably be most beneficial to a horse that does not like to push as well as keeping him interested.

 

[TarrSteps]

I'd agree, that's almost classic for a horse experiencing discomfort. The fact that he is willing and sweet in extended work and so resistant doing short work, along with the cold back and his shape, would make me wonder. It sounds like his experience as a young horse did more than scare him, even if it only hurt him in a minor way that then changed his way of going.

That said, you can't fix what you can't find and there are lots of horses with similar issues than can be helped with the right work and management. Long reining (I prefer not off the bit), in hand work over poles, judicious longeing, massage (both pro and non-pro) - there are all sorts of things that might help. Perhaps a couple of weeks unmounted work then gradually introduce ridden work with emphasis on stretching and altering his posture. See how it goes. If little or no sign of progress I'd be looking at things more closely and/or considering a job change to one that he seems more comfortable doing, like hunting.

Have you had someone else sit on him who has experience in such matters? That can be a useful information gathering method.

 

[finngle]

While I appreciate your concern for my horse's comfort I have had him checked by a qualified McTimoney as well as chatted to my vet, the conclusion was it could well be in his head as nothing was found that could cause him so much pain.
I am confident in their knowledge as I am in my own; having just graduated with an honours degree in Equine Science I have studied anatomy and physiology as wellas sports injuries lameness etc. which is why I firmly believe he does not have kissing spine as he works beautifully when the work is interesting enough.
Kissing spine can affect the whole body, as does back pain and a horse usually compensates for this causing problems elsewhere. Roy is well bred with good conformation who thoroughly enjoys what he does.
People who have sat on him also agree he works too nicely for it to be a major problem.

Roy is a very quirky 5yo who gets bored and distracted easily, hence why the usual exercises aren't paying off as he is strong enough to take the reins from me and do his own thing and clever enough to work out that showjumps knock down. He uses himself when he sees fir such as when he is fresh for jumping, out hunting which is more strenuous than what Im currently asking of him in the school. With dark nights and a job hackinh is only an option a couple of times a week and even then im limited in time and where i can go.

I didnt post to be told my horse sounds like he's in pain, I am 95% sure he isn't and if anyone wants to pay fot a kissing spine xray/scintigraphu go ahead, but many horses have kissing spine and it doesnt cause any pain at all.

My question is are there any interesting ideas for engaging the hind end while making it bearable/fun for my horse.

Today we tried an exercise i found through scouring the net, trot 5, walk 1, trot 5, walk 1 and in canter etc. after about 45 mins of him mucking about i got some beautiful transitions, leg yield and flying changes. Roys problem is he anticipates the transitions after a while so if I were to continue this exercise tomorrow or the day after he'd be one step ahead.
So I need ideas so I can mix it up and get some work out of him...

 

[TarrSteps]

Um, who mentioned kissing spines? Certainly not me. People on the internet have only the written word to go on - how are we supposed to know you are and experienced, educated trainer with particular knowledge of sports injuries etc?

I go back to my earlier comment, that I've found a period of in hand work to start new patterns, followed by work that centres most on the horse's posture and way of going to be most helpful with the least amount of stress. Of course transitions, leg yielding, pole work, small jumping concentrating on form, hill work etc all form part of this but it's HOW the horse does the work that makes the difference, not just doing it.

With the repeated transitions, I find it most useful to not just do them to one rhythm, although that's useful to start for the discipline of it, but then to concentrate on quality. So do the transition to trot when the walk is good and vice versa. Yes, if that is taking you a circle to get to that point, that is not ideal, so maybe you take a short break and then start from a step back. A few 'see saws' with a halt, a few steps of correct rein back, a few steps forward, halt, repeat then walk forward is a variation on that theme.

Pole work, also useful and masses of permutations. I don't tend to do much in canter over poles unless I'm happy with the walk and trot pole work but some horses are more ridable in canter so play it by ear.

Working in light seat in a quiet canter can also help, letting the back come up and soften before asking for any shorter work.

I assume you are already being very disciplined, correcting any low quality transitions immediately etc. I find when my horses get sloppy it's because I've got sloppy but perhaps that's not everyone's experience.

Also, your horse is young and big. Maybe he's not there yet? He's probably 2 years from complete development. Being big makes this a slower process, as you know.

Out of curiosity, what are the 'usual exercises' you have been doing that he's not been responding to?

 

[be positive]

Kissing spine can affect the whole body, as does back pain and a horse usually compensates for this causing problems elsewhere.

Roy is a very quirky 5yo who gets bored and distracted easily, hence why the usual exercises aren't paying off as he is strong enough to take the reins from me and do his own thing and clever enough to work out that showjumps knock down. He uses himself when he sees fir such as when he is fresh for jumping, out hunting which is more strenuous than what Im currently asking of him in the school. With dark nights and a job hackinh is only an option a couple of times a week and even then im limited in time and where i can go.

I didnt post to be told my horse sounds like he's in pain, I am 95% sure he isn't and if anyone wants to pay fot a kissing spine xray/scintigraphu go ahead, but many horses have kissing spine and it doesnt cause any pain at all.

My question is are there any interesting ideas for engaging the hind end while making it bearable/fun for my horse.

Today we tried an exercise i found through scouring the net, trot 5, walk 1, trot 5, walk 1 and in canter etc. after about 45 mins of him mucking about i got some beautiful transitions, leg yield and flying changes. Roys problem is he anticipates the transitions after a while so if I were to continue this exercise tomorrow or the day after he'd be one step ahead.
So I need ideas so I can mix it up and get some work out of him...[/QUOTE]

I also did not mention KS just that he may have an issue somewhere, in my experience back pain is usually caused by the horse compensating due to problems elsewhere, not that back pain causes other issues, I have no experience on KS so will not comment on that other than that cptrayes horse which did have KS was given the all clear by a physio and vet, it cannot be clearly diagnosed without xrays.

I had assumed that the horse was older than 5, he is still maturing and may be growing which will have an effect on his muscular development.
TS has given suggestions of exercises and her approach of being ultra disciplined makes sense, especially with a horse that is inclined to anticipate rather than wait and work through as required.

 

[TarrSteps]

To clarify 'disinclined' does not mean 'hard' in my book, it means 'careful and honest'. If I ask a horse to do something a particular way and it does not, then that is MY problem and I have to go back and make it work (within the confines of what the horse can do, obviously).

 

[finngle]

I am aware KS iS not the only problem this could be however it is one commonly associated with a cold back.
Yes back pain and lameness are interconnected as are dental problems,, lameness can cause back problems snd vice versa.

Roy is quite riggy I think as he exhibits a stallion type attitude. He can be bolshy, he can get naughty and down right disrespectful.

The usual exercises he doesnt respond to are mainly lunging (hes been lunged so often he's completely bored and more than once every so often provokes arguments such as turning in then refusing to go back out by rearing etc, bucking, taking off. A pessoa provokes taking off and bucking rather than work.) when i first got him he lunged beautifully and worked well but it became routine as it was a way to "warn up" his back if you like to prevent him rodeoinh. Trabsitions, especially to and from canter are tricky as he loves to canter walk and halt to canter are easy for him as if he isnt bakanced/concentrating/is anticipating he will just leap into it once hes had a canter he gets wound up so i usually leave this until last or simply stay in trot if hes particularly difficult.
Poles are fine for a limited time, once hes got the knack of it its more fun to canter/hop over them..
And he has no respect for small jumps, unless there are bounces involved, hence why we upped the height which really got him using himself so i decided to do grid work once or twice a week and he quickly learned he could just knock the pole. However at a show he rarely touches a fence.
I can collect and extended him in trot but cant really alter his canter without a fight. Hiwever put him in draw reins (which i dont really like as he is naturally overbent anyway) and he is very well behaved, even if they arent tight.

The transitions got him thinking and eventually after many blisters he did do them calmly even to and from canter. I do try to correct him without causing too much of a fuss as once you've wound him up it takes a good while to get him on track again.

I was just looking to see if anyone had an idea or experience with a similar issue, im not very creative when it comes to schooling and its easy to have a set routine when it comes to flat work.
I dont really want to try a stronger bit - hes in a sweet irin loose ring with scrob board and lozenges, hes always been funny with his mouth and i find this is soft enough yet strong enough to stop him putting his head on the floor and trying to snatch the reins.

 

[TarrSteps]

To clarify 'disinclined' does not mean 'hard' in my book, it means 'careful and honest'. If I ask a horse to do something a particular way and it does not, then that is MY problem and I have to go back and make it work (within the confines of what the horse can do, obviously).

And clearly I mean 'disciplined'. Silly autocorrect.

 

[Pidgeon]

What breed is he? You have mentioned he is over bent, is he on the forehand? FWIW when I got my boy he had little back end and it took a long time to build it so he was even front and back.

 

[Tonks]

its a fight to get him to leg yield but he will do it evebtually, if you try to collect his canter he will simply lead change.

Leg yield - sounds like he's a bit confused re aids - have you first taught it in-hand to make it clear to him how the aid for LY differs from the leg aid to Go? Maybe their is confusion on his part?

Perhpas he has problems with adduction and abduction of the hindlegs to fit with sacrolilac issues.

However, if he doesn't fully understand the aids it can feel as if you're fighting.

Can't collect the canter....However he will do a gorgeous extended trot where you can feel him really work.

Horses with sacroiliac problems of either skeletal or soft tissue origin typicall present with problems in their canter gait (varying issues) but typically have a ok trot gait.

I have had him checked by a qualified McTimoney as well as chatted to my vet

I personally wouldn't rely on a diagnosis given by a phyio/oesto/chiroprator. I think I'd want my vet to look at this in the flesh.

Roy is a very quirky 5yo

What do you mean exactly - hypersensitive / hyperreactive?

strong enough to take the reins from me

If he's taking the reins from you, then surely his basic STOP response or understanding of pressure on the reins needs a bit of work?

He uses himself when he sees fir such as when he is fresh for jumping, out hunting which is more strenuous than what Im currently asking of him in the school.

He may show more willingness here because you're just tapping into what motivates him more - ie, out hunting they are more motivated to simply follow the pack to 'flee' - I don't think this necessarily means he's not experiencing discomfort.

The usual exercises he doesnt respond to are mainly lunging (hes been lunged so often he's completely bored and more than once every so often provokes arguments such as turning in then refusing to go back out by rearing etc, bucking, taking off. A pessoa provokes taking off and bucking rather than work.)

I wouldn't view this as being bored. I would see this as a horse that isn't obedient to the basic aids.

he will just leap into it once hes had a canter he gets wound up so i usually leave this until last or simply stay in trot if hes particularly difficult

.

I think you're describing a transition with tension here, which I think he would do when their is confusion.

I can collect and extended him in trot but cant really alter his canter without a fight.

.

Perhaps sacroiliac?

Hiwever put him in draw reins (which i dont really like as he is naturally overbent anyway) and he is very well behaved, even if they arent tight.

.

This does make me think that he has some confusion regarding the basic aids of GO/STOP as draw reins CAN cause confusion in a horse that has a poor understanding of stop/slow as draw reins can interfer with with these aids.

Basically, what are his feet doing when he goes overbent? Is he not slowing when you pull on the reins = this would mean that there may be too much pressure and he is responding with confusion?

The transitions got him thinking and eventually after many blisters he did do them calmly even to and from canter.

.

If you're getting blisters then he doesn't understand that pressure means stop or slow, surely?

I dont really want to try a stronger bit.

I wouldn't, as it sounds more of a schooling issue than a bitting issue.

In summary, I think you have both a physical problem and a problem with schooling/training. Is there anyone who can help you to make him more obedient but at the same time refine your aids? He may be a hyer-reactive horse that is sensitive - so you have to be sensitive and very clear in return.

In addition, you may be working with a horse that does have physical limitations, meaning you have to make it even more clear for him and work with these limitations.

Good luck.

 

[finngle]

Thanks for your reply, my yard owner puts his behaviour down to an issuecwith respect for me and my aids as he is perfect in draw reins. She has sat on him several times and he will leg yield, turb in the forehand etc. quite easily with her after an initial argument. However with the me the argument is much longer and I made the mistake of getting off when trouble started this summer as he got really difficult., which I was taught as a child - if he gets you annoyed end on a good note and get off. My good note was a 20m circle in trot without him trying to spook me off or take off with me.
Yard owner did not think he was confused simply taking the mickey and for the next week we had no trouble with leg yield.
Canter is Roys favorite gait, if he is fresh thats all he wants to do. I think the leaping is more to do with anticipation as he leaps as soon as i ask where as if he is distracted and i have to backup my aid this doesnt happen. However if i do lots of transitions this completely stops as does the hunching from walk to trot. And I can manage to collect his canter.
I think his taking the reins from me is more evading the contact than confusion, he has a funny mouth always has, however since I changed to the newer bit this behaviour has stopped as it is strong enough to stop him putting his head down and soft enough for him to wotk in. He has always been funny with his mouth and again this has been checked out - nothing there.
He can be extremely sensitive at times, especially when fresh and will overact to aids, by the same token sometimes hes completely the opposite and takes a bit of work. There are times when he goes lovely, and local dressage judges have praised him highly.
I'd like to iterate - this is a 17.2 5yo riggy horse that is mostly TB. He is bolshy, strong and extremely clever, this isnt just a ridden attitude problem its ground one too. And not just with me either.. The question was - interesting hind end excercises for easily distracted horse who is cold backed that has been checked out by physio AND vet.

 

[TarrSteps]

If your YM has no trouble getting the horse working well why not put the horse into a program of schooling and lessons with her?

 

[TarrSteps]

If your YM has no trouble getting the horse working well why not put the horse into a program of schooling and lessons with her?

It doesn't sound like you need 'an exercise' - you've already said he improves if you're disciplined and consistent with the work you're doing. There aren't any magic exercises, it's always the same old, same old. Any decent book on schooling will have a template for schooling progression. Chris Bartle's book is brilliant if you're eventing focused, Carl Hester has a couple of great, simple flat schooling books, Anthony Paalman's book is a bible but there are scores of options. Even if the horse does have a subclinical issue (and any vet will tell you there are all sorts of horses with underlying weaknesses out there working and competing) then the right program might help him a lot.

Some horses just need very good, precise riding, especially when they are young. If you have a 'professional's horse' then you will just have to ride like a professional.

 

[LMR]

The question was - interesting hind end excercises for easily distracted horse who is cold backed that has been checked out by physio AND vet.

Plenty of transitions! Vary them so you go walk trot collected trot canter medium canter. So he can't anticipate them he just knows a transition is coming, not which one.

Another exercise I find great is 20m circle spiral down ro 10m(around centre line) or whatever he is capable of then legyield him out to 20m. Again you can vary this by going 20m to 10m to 17m ro 12m. This really gets you riding exactly where u want ro go and be in control of where his body is. But your nor focusing on collecting him and fighting him more focusing on the exercise. You can also do some medium steps when you go out ro the bigger circle.

Another one is loops off the track.

And I also go around the school choosing random places to do different size circles but I include a transition somewhere in the circle. I dont do this in every circle so they don't anticipate.

Hope this helps

 

[finngle]

I wasnt looking for a magic exercise as such but some people have good ideas; for example I found the transitions trot 5 walk 1 canter 5 trot 1 etc. on another forum who apparently was taught that by a dressage trainer and a shoulder in exercise which I wouldnt have thought of by myself. Its always easier to think of a varied routine when people share their ideas and experiences. I can tell the random transitions are helping as he is working harder but even after 2 sessions he is anticipating, and trying to get around the work even doing it randomly.
Did some grid work the other day, he hasnt jumped in a while and it was far too exciting for him to think sensibly but I suppose that will come with time.
Thanks for your advice

 

[finngle]

Plenty of transitions! Vary them so you go walk trot collected trot canter medium canter. So he can't anticipate them he just knows a transition is coming, not which one.

Another exercise I find great is 20m circle spiral down ro 10m(around centre line) or whatever he is capable of then legyield him out to 20m. Again you can vary this by going 20m to 10m to 17m ro 12m. This really gets you riding exactly where u want ro go and be in control of where his body is. But your nor focusing on collecting him and fighting him more focusing on the exercise. You can also do some medium steps when you go out ro the bigger circle.

Another one is loops off the track.

And I also go around the school choosing random places to do different size circles but I include a transition somewhere in the circle. I dont do this in every circle so they don't anticipate.

Hope this helps

Ah thanks! I completely forgot about the spiral exercise, will give that a go.

I will eventually begin switching from collected to medium etc once i've established a calm collected canter, I think if I introduced him to medium it would be too much fun to get any sense from him and he's just so big and strong I think it's better to try and not end up in a massive argument with him lots of small circles keep him steady enough to ask for a collection at the moment so am working to keep the collection on a widening circle.

 

[LMR]

Ah thanks! I completely forgot about the spiral exercise, will give that a go.

I will eventually begin switching from collected to medium etc once i've established a calm collected canter, I think if I introduced him to medium it would be too much fun to get any sense from him and he's just so big and strong I think it's better to try and not end up in a massive argument with him lots of small circles keep him steady enough to ask for a collection at the moment so am working to keep the collection on a widening circle.

Another one is riding a square and vary size of square.

And I've found doing a 5 m loop in trot then when returning to track canter canter just to a then trot again helped my youngster when the canter got a bit onward bound.

 

[Tonks]

Thanks for your reply, my yard owner puts his behaviour down to an issuecwith respect for me and my aids as he is perfect in draw reins..............the argument is much longer and I made the mistake of getting off when trouble started this summer as he got really difficult...My good note was a 20m circle in trot without him trying to spook me off or take off with me............Yard owner did not think he was confused simply taking the mickey and for the next week we had no trouble with leg yield.....I think the leaping is more to do with anticipation as he leaps as soon as i ask where as if he is distracted and i have to backup my aid this doesnt happen. However if i do lots of transitions this completely stops as does the hunching from walk to trot. I think his taking the reins from me is more evading the contact than confusion, he has a funny mouth always has, however since I changed to the newer bit this behaviour has stopped as it is strong enough to stop him putting his head down and soft enough for him to wotk in. He has always been funny with his mouth and again this has been checked out - nothing there. He can be extremely sensitive at times, especially when fresh and will overact to aids, by the same token sometimes hes completely the opposite and takes a bit of work. There are times when he goes lovely, and local dressage judges have praised him highly. I'd like to iterate - this is a 17.2 5yo riggy horse that is mostly TB. He is bolshy, strong and extremely clever, this isnt just a ridden attitude problem its ground one too. And not just with me either.. The question was - interesting hind end excercises for easily distracted horse who is cold backed that has been checked out by physio AND vet.

Some horses are more hyper-reactive or hyper sensitive than others....just how they're made. But, I would just say that being an owner of a hypersensitve ISH myself, if things go wrong, I try not to place the onus on the horse but rather on myself. He is sensitive but if I ride better, I'd get a better tune out of him, so to speak.

I do think that it is more constructive to ask what the rider has done to cause the 'evasion', tension etc OR how they could have managed that unwanted behaviour in a better way (in my opinion if the horse is 'evading' an aid - it hasn't been applied correctly in the first place for that horse.)

If your YO is able to get a better tune out of your horse, what is she able to do that you aren't? Perhaps it would be constructive to ask her for lessons and ask her how she can get a better tune out of him? To use your words, why is he not 'respecting' you? Spooking, for example, I believe, is caused by the rider having no/little control of the forequarters and the horse is able to focus more on its environment than its rider. Yes, some do spook more than others, but it's still the job of the rider to get the horse 'on the aids' to avoid this.

But, getting your horse on the aids or 'listening' to you has nothing to do with 'arguments' or force. Yes, you may have to go to higher levels of pressure if he's ignoring a light aid, but you shouldn't have to keep repeating - they always want to avoid higher levels of pressure, so they learn pretty quickly. So, maybe you're keeping a too tight a presure or holding it on for too long which would make him more tense and more hyper-reative (spook more).

I think that getting a horse 'on the aids', it is gained through the elimination of the flight response, relaxation and a clear understanding of what the aids means, so I would argue that your horse does have some confusion going on. But, that's just my opinion, I suppose. I also think that if he's anticipating the exercies this may be a sign of tension.

If he's bolshy on the ground then why not do some in-hand work to make your aids clearer. I personally use equitation science principles which incorporates PARK. It's a really useful techniquic/exercies that forms the basis of obedience and calmness in the horse.

As the previous poster stated, if you have a horse that is a professional's ride, you'll have to up your game and learn how to get him on the aids.

Good luck and I hope things improve for you.

 

[Tonks]

So, maybe you're keeping a too tight a presure or holding it on for too long which would make him more tense and more hyper-reative (spook more).

I also wanted to say that if you're also asking with a light aid and then getting no response from this light aid, then inadvertinently you are training this response. That's why it's always useful to have someone else on the groun to point this out - just a thought.

If you've done a degree in Equitation Science, then you'll have heard of training horses using Learning theory and Andrew MacLean's research and publications - have a look, they may help.

 

[Pinkvboots]

When mine gets too fresh I do 3 loop sepentines with 10 meter circles on each loop and then even try 4, I find doing more difficult stuff keeps him interested so he behaves better, I also do shallow loops in trot along the long side can help keep them from getting faster about 3 works, I also canter figure eights and just trot across diagonal to change rein and I mix it all up so they cant anticipate, i also learn a few dressage tests and then use them in my schooling.

Also wanted to ask what do you feed him and how often do you ride?

 

[charlie76]

I know you don't want to be told that anything is wrong with your horse but no amount of schooling exercises or advice will improve him if he is physically unable to. My husbands horse is exactly as you describe, lateral work would make him jack it in, he couldn't collect the canter, if he you tried he would either go disunited or become very tight through the back, he can't sit through his downwards transitions. However, put him in draw reins and he is fine, this is because you take away his ability to resist and tell you it hurts. This horse has been diagnosed with sacroiliac pain, hind suspensory lameness and kissing spine. We have had surgery on the kissing spine and suspensory problems and had his SI injected, he was an event horse, we now just do low level stuff with him which he manages very well but he won't ever event again.
There is no point trying to force the horse to try and do things he physically can't do , his resistance will just get more and more.
To add , in all this time with the issues, galloping and jumping xc was never an issue for him, he evented to novice level with these issues, the vet didn't think there was anything wrong as he was competing successfully, he also jumped brilliantly out hunting and had a very good medium trot, that's because the issues are behind and it's the collection that is an issue, jump off a long stride all day long, gallop all day long, try and collect him, engage him and do any lateral work, simply couldn't do it. Finally, when we took this horse to shows, the issues didn't show, his adrenaline took over and as the pain was low level it was over shadowed by his excitement at the event. We thought he just had an issue with working at home in the school. Also, if we schooled in the field rather than the school he was better, because he had more room. Of course , when we got a diagnosis we felt terrible.
A chiropractor will not be able to tell you of these issues, I know, we have been there. You will need x rays and scans.
If you don't get it investigated you will end up with a very reluctant, if not naughty, horse

 

[Tonks]

lateral work would make him jack it in, he couldn't collect the canter, if he you tried he would either go disunited or become very tight through the back, he can't sit through his downwards transitions. However, put him in draw reins and he is fine, this is because you take away his ability to resist and tell you it hurts. This horse has been diagnosed with sacroiliac pain, hind suspensory lameness and kissing spine. If you don't get it investigated you will end up with a very reluctant, if not naughty, horse

Well said, enlightened horsemanship.

My boy has sacroiliac pain that is intermittent. Although very talented for all 3 disciplines, progress has been slow and I have to work within the confinements of his limitations. Draw reins would only serve to mask his problems - and then add some more on top of them!

I can literally feel when I'm on, whether he's having a bad day. But its very subtle and cannot be seen from by eye the ground - only felt. Typical of SC problems - I'm sure there must be many horses out there with these problem as they are subtle and not obvious from the ground.

I think its great that you've mentioned that fast quick work is easier for these horses, but collected, slower work is much harder. Again mine's the same.

Good job your horse ended up with you!