Hindgut acidosis/ulcers

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Maz55

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Anyone scoped clear for foregut ulcers but had hindgut issue diagnosed? What were symptoms? How was it diagnosed and what was treatment, and did it work?
My horse showing ulcer signs but scoped clear yesterday: nappy/spooky, resistance bending right/engaging right hind, sensitive in flank area and grumpy changing rugs. Vet not been a lot of help! Thanks
 
I'm not an expert but I don't think hind gut ulcers show up on a scope. Treat him as if he's got them and get another vet?
 
No you’re right they don’t. That’s half the problem! I’ve ordered equishure but interested in others experiences
 
Sorry you're having issues- been there, done that with ulcers an hindgut unfortunately. The succeed test is for hindgut and no, they won't show on a scope since this can't reach the hindgut. I think we accessed the succeed test through our vets, it tests for blood in fecal samples I think. I'm not sure if you can do the test by yourself, worth a Google maybe?

Has the horse been x rayed? Although it has scoped clear for ulcers, I'd be wondering what caused said ulcers in the first place. The symptoms you describe could describe kissing spine or sacroiliac problems as well as ulcers?

Good luck getting it all sorted.

ETA: when my horse had hindgut acidosis, she was madly chewing chunks off wood- sounds odd, but apparently an instinct to get fibre into the gut I remember reading somewhere. She was also being horrible under saddle and in herself generally.
 
Having had a mare in for 'fixing' (one I knew very well in her earlier years as I bred her, backed her, and sold her two years ago, had bred her mother, and and a number of full siblings- and spotting the area of the problem almost immediately because of her behaviour, I now feel quite knowledgeable about hind gut ulcers, lol. And she's 'fixed' - now tested clear (treated with Acid Ease) and no longer tries to buck riders off as fast as they get on. Nor does she look slightly lame on the right hind, or jump up the wall if you touch her right flank.

The Succeed test is not available except to vets in the UK, I believe. I certainly haven't located it. A small sample of fresh dung - and they can locate blood (that shouldn't be there, obviously.) I'm surprised your vet didn't recommend the test when she scoped clear for stomach ulcers. Especially with symptoms like hers, that is definitely the next place to look (or even the first - but then the blood in dung test isn't as expensive, lol. But you'd think he'd grab both - and while he was there. I thik I'd be ringing him and asking why he ruled out hind gut ulces without testing.
 
Melody Grey said:
Sorry you're having issues- been there, done that with ulcers an hindgut unfortunately. The succeed test is for hindgut and no, they won't show on a scope since this can't reach the hindgut. I think we accessed the succeed test through our vets, it tests for blood in fecal samples I think. I'm not sure if you can do the test by yourself, worth a Google maybe?

Has the horse been x rayed? Although it has scoped clear for ulcers, I'd be wondering what caused said ulcers in the first place. The symptoms you describe could describe kissing spine or sacroiliac problems as well as ulcers?

Good luck getting it all sorted.

ETA: when my horse had hindgut acidosis, she was madly chewing chunks off wood- sounds odd, but apparently an instinct to get fibre into the gut I remember reading somewhere. She was also being horrible under saddle and in herself generally.
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Thanks. To clarify she has never had ulcers - this was first scope! No xrays done as yet no but I’d be very surprised if was an orthopaedic issue but will explore that if my hindgut theory proves wrong! Thanks
 
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JanetGeorge said:
Having had a mare in for 'fixing' (one I knew very well in her earlier years as I bred her, backed her, and sold her two years ago, had bred her mother, and and a number of full siblings- and spotting the area of the problem almost immediately because of her behaviour, I now feel quite knowledgeable about hind gut ulcers, lol. And she's 'fixed' - now tested clear (treated with Acid Ease) and no longer tries to buck riders off as fast as they get on. Nor does she look slightly lame on the right hind, or jump up the wall if you touch her right flank.

The Succeed test is not available except to vets in the UK, I believe. I certainly haven't located it. A small sample of fresh dung - and they can locate blood (that shouldn't be there, obviously.) I'm surprised your vet didn't recommend the test when she scoped clear for stomach ulcers. Especially with symptoms like hers, that is definitely the next place to look (or even the first - but then the blood in dung test isn't as expensive, lol. But you'd think he'd grab both - and while he was there. I thik I'd be ringing him and asking why he ruled out hind gut ulces without testing.
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My vet said he didn’t believe there was such a thing as Hindgut Ulcers when I raised it - he said he knew of no veterinary papers on them! I was so shocked as I normally really rate him. I have sent him the Pellegrini report and asked him to read it - he’s calling me Monday. Meanwhile I’ve ordered some equishure I just hope it works - is there anything else I should be doing (assuming I’m going to have to try to rule hindgut out or treat myself)? My girl has ad lib hay, purefeed balance, sea salt, vit e, Timothy chop, joint supplement
 
Ours scoped clear and vet said because of that, hind gut ulcers were extremely unlikely. And dismissed the suggestion of succeed test as didn’t feel it gave accurate results.

Horse was diagnosed with facet joint arthritis and we attempted to treat that with no real improvement.

3 years later we got the osteopathic vet out for his opinion. To cut a long story short, he’s been treating her for hind gut and enlarged right ovary, and she’s made massive progress. Diagnosis by process of elimination!

She’s now fed thunderbrook chaff and nuts, with equishure and milk thistle and a mare supplement. She had all the symptoms you listed and more, as she presented with si-type issues. She’s always been nappy and spooky - and now she’s like a different horse! She’s so much calmer and happier.
 
Caramac71 said:
Ours scoped clear and vet said because of that, hind gut ulcers were extremely unlikely. And dismissed the suggestion of succeed test as didn’t feel it gave accurate results.

Horse was diagnosed with facet joint arthritis and we attempted to treat that with no real improvement.

3 years later we got the osteopathic vet out for his opinion. To cut a long story short, he’s been treating her for hind gut and enlarged right ovary, and she’s made massive progress. Diagnosis by process of elimination!

She’s now fed thunderbrook chaff and nuts, with equishure and milk thistle and a mare supplement. She had all the symptoms you listed and more, as she presented with si-type issues. She’s always been nappy and spooky - and now she’s like a different horse! She’s so much calmer and happier.
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I’m sorry it has taken you so long to get an answer that’s awful. My girl has always been nappy and spooky and I’ve always had my doubts as to whether that’s the real her so this is interesting! I have thought about osteopathic vet route. What nuts do you feed please and supplement?
 
Maz55 said:
I’m sorry it has taken you so long to get an answer that’s awful. My girl has always been nappy and spooky and I’ve always had my doubts as to whether that’s the real her so this is interesting! I have thought about osteopathic vet route. What nuts do you feed please and supplement?
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We give thunderbrooks meadow nuts or hay cobs, whichever our feed supplier has in stock. Supplements are milk thistle powder plus we used to feed equishure but now make our own by mixing bicarb with linseed oil. Mare supplement, we started by double dosing but now give normal rate of either oestress or Hilton herbs easy mare.

It’s been a long old journey and because “something” was diagnosed early on, everyone focused their attention on that. It wasn’t til we got the osteopathic vet involved and he looked at the bigger picture and treated her inside out, she then responded really well to the treatment. I only wish we’d found him sooner!
 
So I took my horse to be scoped two weeks ago. He is fine under saddle but he was very sensitive around his side's, especially on the right side near the top of his hind leg when being groomed. He had also started to do an odd lip smacking thing whilst waiting for his dinner or hay which was reminiscent of wind sucking.

Anyway, I was lucky in that ulceration could clearly be seen on the entry to the hind gut. My vet says that is the most painful place as everything passes that way, but it likely they continue into the hind gut. They understand hind gut ulcers and the cause much less than the other kind, but my vet says native types like my boy seem more susceptible to the hind gut kind. One other thing of note that she said was that the test for hind gut can show negative when there are ulcers, as it will only show positive if the ulceration is bleeding or weeping. It can still be very sore but not bleeding or weeping.

So treatment. My boy is on Sucralfate powder in a tiny feed twice a day. He is also having injections once a week for 4 weeks but I'll have to check what they are. He is on the Sucralfate for 6 weeks, but without the injections it would have been 12 weeks.

So, if you are convinced that's what it is I'd either talk to another vet, or try a course of sucralfate maybe look at Abler?
 
JulesRules said:
So I took my horse to be scoped two weeks ago. He is fine under saddle but he was very sensitive around his side's, especially on the right side near the top of his hind leg when being groomed. He had also started to do an odd lip smacking thing whilst waiting for his dinner or hay which was reminiscent of wind sucking.

Anyway, I was lucky in that ulceration could clearly be seen on the entry to the hind gut. My vet says that is the most painful place as everything passes that way, but it likely they continue into the hind gut. They understand hind gut ulcers and the cause much less than the other kind, but my vet says native types like my boy seem more susceptible to the hind gut kind. One other thing of note that she said was that the test for hind gut can show negative when there are ulcers, as it will only show positive if the ulceration is bleeding or weeping. It can still be very sore but not bleeding or weeping.

So treatment. My boy is on Sucralfate powder in a tiny feed twice a day. He is also having injections once a week for 4 weeks but I'll have to check what they are. He is on the Sucralfate for 6 weeks, but without the injections it would have been 12 weeks.

So, if you are convinced that's what it is I'd either talk to another vet, or try a course of sucralfate maybe look at Abler?
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That's very interesting JulesRules as my pony had glandular ulcers right on exit point to hind gut & we had severe bronking - hes currently turned away following 18 months of failed treatment with a view to rescope, restart.
We also did the succeed test which was positive & following course of treatment clear but its all ongoing treatment/care.
 
@bubsqueaks
bubsqueaks said:
That's very interesting JulesRules as my pony had glandular ulcers right on exit point to hind gut & we had severe bronking - hes currently turned away following 18 months of failed treatment with a view to rescope, restart.
We also did the succeed test which was positive & following course of treatment clear but its all ongoing treatment/care.
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How did your vet treat it?
I've checked and the weekly injections that mine is having is Omeprazole. The injection is due to the large quantity needed according to my vet. It's like a big injection of custard!
My vet has also recommended linseed oil.
 
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