Hip Scoring for mixed breeds and Neutering

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TurtleToo

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Silly questions coming up :o :

1) Can a mixed breed dog be hip scored under the BVA scheme, assuming this is the main one?

2) Would you have a dog who will never be bred from hip/elbow scored, just to know what could be ahead? We're thinking GSD/Rottweiler cross and he's about 20" and 20kg (maybe more) at 8 months so he's not going to be huge, but obviously even if he's not these two breeds he probably is a combo of breeds likely to have hip issues.

And last of all, I know I was debating leaving him uncastrated, but he's started annoying my poor boy collie and stealing teddies :o and even though we've made it more than clear that it's not allowed, once the urge is there I guess he's not going to forget it. So, vets now or leave it until 18 months when he's definitely all grown, or sometime in between?

Thanks :)
 
I know very little about BVA hip scoring but I'm sure his hips could be scored even if they don't issue a certificate as he's a crossbreed - after all hips are hips no matter what breed the dog is! One thing I will say is that since you're not planning on breeding him, are you sure that you want the worry of knowing about something that a) might never happen and b) something that you can't actually change? BTW, IIWY I would make sure that you had good lifetime insurance in place well before you xray just in case anything shows up as it would be treated as a pre existing condition for insurance purposes for the rest of his life....

As far as castration is concerned I prefer to leave large breeds until maturity if at all possible - his behaviour sounds like a bad attack of the teenage 'Kevins' which would be typical of a large breed of that age. Castration can help with humping and the like but it's not definite that it will stop it. It didn't with my Rottie :eek:
 
I am not sure if an unregistered dog can be scored, although as the x ray now has to be marked with a microchip or tattoo number to identify the dog I see no reason why not. Previously I think you probably had to register a dog on the working register with the KC.
2 of my bitches from last year have been scored so far, neither will be bred from, but as the breeder I was obviously interested in my own girl's score, and the other one (mentioned in my other post) was always going to be done as her owner wants to hopefully do agility with her. I would say it depends on what you want to do with him, if you are considering agility or similar then it would be worth having them done rather than risk damaging him. IF you have a decent vet who can read x rays there would be no need to submit for scoring, but those vets are few and far between I think. You're not near Cheshire are you, cos I can recommend ours.
As to neutering, I would be inclined to leave a larger breed to fully mature before neutering .
 
Would you necessarily have to send them off to score? Both of mine have had hip x-rays - incidentally, rather than specifically to check for HD - and I was satisfied with the (admittedly an orthopaedic specialist) vet just talking me through them. You'd hope that anything bad enough to be life changing or limiting would be obvious to them!
 
Yes cross breeds can be hip scored but I think they have to be registered on the KC Activity Register. To be honest if you are planning on neutering your dog and therefore not breeding I would save your money and concentrate on on conservative measure to reduce the risk of hip dysplasia. Therefore keep him well muscled and not allow him too get over weight. I have known dogs with v high hip scores that can still move v well so the score is not really an indication of problems in the future.
Hope this helps a little
 
No you wouldn't have to send off for scoring BC as long as your vet could read x rays, but you would not believe how many vets I have heard of who have totally incorrectly read an x ray, condemning a dog as having bad hips when they were fine, and vice versa. An ortho specialist would, one would hope, have no problem in correctly interpreting x rays, but as I said below, there don't seem to be too many vets who can do that. I am on a GSD forum and there seem to be only a handful of vets across the UK who people have faith in. I was amazed to find breeders travel down to my vets from the North East of England, makes me realise how lucky I am!
 
TurtleToo said:
Silly questions coming up :o :

1) Can a mixed breed dog be hip scored under the BVA scheme, assuming this is the main one?

2) Would you have a dog who will never be bred from hip/elbow scored, just to know what could be ahead? We're thinking GSD/Rottweiler cross and he's about 20" and 20kg (maybe more) at 8 months so he's not going to be huge, but obviously even if he's not these two breeds he probably is a combo of breeds likely to have hip issues.

And last of all, I know I was debating leaving him uncastrated, but he's started annoying my poor boy collie and stealing teddies :o and even though we've made it more than clear that it's not allowed, once the urge is there I guess he's not going to forget it. So, vets now or leave it until 18 months when he's definitely all grown, or sometime in between?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I can't answer your first question, simply because I just don't know.

To answer your second question - I don't think I would bother to have dog scored or even x-rays done until a time comes that there MIGHT already be an issue. Doing anaesthetic for xrays is the norm, so why anaesthetise and xray unless the dog was going to be working/breeding?

Further, (I know this is not what you asked...) I wouldn't keep an entire male that wasn't breeding. That's my personal choice, but I never understand the desire to keep males entire. You say you're thinking about keeping him entire - so what is it that you want for him by keeping him entire?
 
satinbaze said:
To be honest if you are planning on neutering your dog and therefore not breeding I would save your money and concentrate on on conservative measure to reduce the risk of hip dysplasia. Therefore keep him well muscled and not allow him too get over weight. I have known dogs with v high hip scores that can still move v well so the score is not really an indication of problems in the future.
Hope this helps a little
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly!
 
Just to say PnP, my vet doesn't use a GA , just a sedative, which is another reason a lot of people travel to him I think. I do agree that I would think twice about giving a GA in the OPs situation.
 
I dont have much knowledge of rules of hip scoring but my boxer has hd and has worn his sockets down was told he wouldnt make 6months 2years on and he is still exercised and has light dose of pain meds which i think keeping him moving but not over doing it so he limps. He still plays balls and is very happy. So i dont think knowing till there is a problem is wrong. X
 
I've done exactly this (although the x rays weren't sent to the BVA because the dog isn't KC reg) You can ask your vet for a referral to a specialist for x rays if you're concerned. Please don't let your vet do them if he's not BVA aware! My vet took truly awful x rays and it's not possible to say if the hips are good, bad, indifferent.

I echo the keep him muscled and lean advice, it's the best thing to do. Don't limit exercise hugely, a mistake because he needs to stay fit.
 
Oh heck, I might have to request a copy on Monday and scrutinise them again! I saw nice smooth round ball/sockets, ball seated well into the joint, nothing glaringly wrong.

I do trust him as much as it's possible to trust someone though, wouldn't have let him operate on D otherwise, and hopefully will be working with him soon. :) He also doesn't use a GA as routine, just sedation.

D has actually had hers done twice now, once at around 12 months old when she dislocated the hip in a freak accident and again recently when she did the cruciate aged almost four, it would be interesting to compare the two for any degenerative changes. R was under for contrast dye x-rays to investigate his bladder thing and I asked them to flip him over and take a shot of the hips as well while they were there. :p
 
I wouldn't worry too much about your 2 BC, sounds like your vet is pretty experienced. Does the comment re hopefully working with him mean good news on job front?
 
He will be registered on the kc working register, I want to do a little obedience with him and possibly agility although I've a feeling he could be a very frustrating dog to do agility with when I'm used to my collies! Tbh it's not that I wouldn't trust my vet to read the xrays correctly, we both trust each other a lot which I feel is very important, but I just don't think he would have the experience with hip scoring? We're in NI so nowhere near your vet MM. Glad I asked this as now, if I do go ahead with it, I will be asking for sedation for the xrays rather than GA. Although he could have the xrays done at neutering time if we can hold that off longer. Decisions, decisions!
 
Ancu vets in Co Down. Specialist in x-rays. Head vet will give a good prediction, he's been doing it for many years for different grading bodies in the UK and Europe.
Or Cedar Grove in Belfast, head vet has been doing BVA plates for decades and again will give you an excellent prediction. I think both also now do the 3D x-rays and can give you them on a disc!!
 
I think you've had good advice re-hip/elbow scoring as for neutering if he was mine I wouldn't neuter I would leave it as long as possible (at least till stopped growing) as long as I had a very secure garden and didn't became any more of a pest. Be strict about him not humping you BC but let him have a teddy he can go at + the more exercise the less energy for humping. This would be because there is a correlation with osteosarcomas being more common in neutered rotties and the issues with growth plate closure in larger breeds. However, this is obviously a risk balance situation, so you may feel the testicular cancer risk, etc sways you the other way.
 
I would x-ray to be on the safe side as he is a mix of two large weightbearing breeds prone to HD and as he did not have the best start nutrition wise as you mentioned, I would want to have a look at the plates before I started asking him to start jumping properly.
I would also keep him on the lean side.
All of ours have been x-rayed, only the ones competing and the two or three we bred from were scored, we've been doing it long enough to be able to tell a good plate from a terrible one and the vets we've used have always been accurate on the ones we've scored so happy to have their judgement.

I would also leave it until he is developed to neuter.
If he is being rude, I would get after him, to be honest...if he is still doing it, get after him more, he's a mix of breeds that can take a little tough handling, moreso than a collie and he will probably throw his weight around as he gets older, if you let him away with rudeness now, balls or no balls.
 
Thanks everyone, and CC I was waiting for you to come along :)

Here is a photo which shows his weight as best as I can get, and shows just how lazy he is. He's definitely being kept on the lean side though.
943085_10151591725649275_2036019823_n.jpg


Ah great to hear about Ancu, only over the road from us, thanks for letting me know about that one. I'll ask them whether they'd prefer to have him scored or just look at them themselves. Great to know.
 
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