Hmm....Rapping??!!

Mbronze

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Now bunnyhuggers may not like this so don't read on if your easily upset by the title.

I was talking to A today and she told me about her daughters lanky event horse who always has problems in the sj phase (intro) with poles going flying.

Now she surprised me!! She told me that previously they have rapped the horse and don't know what else to do, I suggested a grid with lots of poles on the ground so it keeps him steady and thinking about his legs all the time (This was the only thing i could think of).

She kind of dismissed my idea and came up with a new one. This idea consists of wrapping holly leaves around a pole so when the horse touches it he will feel it, now i understand the logic of not touching a pole as holly leaves are very prickly. And i know that i am very fortunate to have a horse that will clear a jump with air to spare!!


But can anyone think of a better idea than this?? Or is this what people really resort to??


I can't say i really support the idea, and just wanted to make a couple more suggestions until they put this into practice tomorrow. Jam doughnuts if you got this far..
 

Ezme

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well it's not uncommon..... like you said it doesn't exactly leave with a pleasent feeling. Propper rapping should always be out of the question but holly leave... i guess it's more uncomfortable than painful.

The is a very well known carriage driver who has been known to electify the pole (not a light shock either) of his pairs to stop them leaning on it.... thats just wrong.
 

MrsMozart

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Rapping used to be prevalent in the SJ world
And there were lots of variations on a theme, each worse than the last
. Overuse, or the wrong 'method', will turn a horse that will jump into one that will refuse (often with avengence).
 

Irishcobs

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Leave them to it. If they are stupid enough to think holly leaves and rapping will teach their horse to jump better then proper schooling, then they aren't going to listen to anyone else.
 

PapaFrita

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I don't think rapping is particularly effective. From what I've heard from people who know a LOT more about it than I do, a horse will quickly learn that it doesn't happen at shows and so resort to their old ways. No one at my yard raps, but if they want a horse to start hitting poles so they feel and start thinking about picking their feet up, they ride them very deep into the fence.
 

Steeleydan

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God help them if they are having to give it a bash at Intro stage!!! Not saying the odd offset wouldnt help a bit at top level especially in show jumping but at Into, its obviousley a very careless horse.
 

Shilasdair

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I am hoping this is a joke, but if not I have a few comments to make.
Rapping is a widespread practice, and will indeed make the horse err on the side of caution and jump higher than he perceives the pole to be. However (and this is quite a big however), horses aren't stupid, and IME, they soon learn only to jump higher when there are humans either side of the jump - not terribly practical for the showjump ring.
As for the holly idea - well that contravenes horse welfare, and is against the law, so if I were you I'd say you'll report them if they do such a thing. What next - setting a fire under the pole, maybe fireworks?
As for positive suggestions;
1. If the horse is capable, but needs schooling, tell them to hire a jumping instructor who can set up exercises to improve his jump.
2. If the horse isn't capable - sell the horse and buy one which is, which eliminates the need for prickly holly collection walks too.
3. If the jockey isn't capable - well, they're f*cked.

S
 

Shilasdair

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[ QUOTE ]
Well reading previous posts on the subject seems to me that some find it inhumane and cruel

[/ QUOTE ]

Count me in on that, and add 'stupid' to it.
S
 

DipseyDeb

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[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping this is a joke, but if not I have a few comments to make.
Rapping is a widespread practice, and will indeed make the horse err on the side of caution and jump higher than he perceives the pole to be. However (and this is quite a big however), horses aren't stupid, and IME, they soon learn only to jump higher when there are humans either side of the jump - not terribly practical for the showjump ring.
As for the holly idea - well that contravenes horse welfare, and is against the law, so if I were you I'd say you'll report them if they do such a thing. What next - setting a fire under the pole, maybe fireworks?
As for positive suggestions;
1. If the horse is capable, but needs schooling, tell them to hire a jumping instructor who can set up exercises to improve his jump.
2. If the horse isn't capable - sell the horse and buy one which is, which eliminates the need for prickly holly collection walks too.
3. If the jockey isn't capable - well, they're f*cked.

S


[/ QUOTE ]

You hope I was joking?????
 

DipseyDeb

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[ QUOTE ]
Well reading previous posts on the subject seems to me that some find it inhumane and cruel

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is!!!!!
 

Shilasdair

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[ QUOTE ]

You hope I was joking?????


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes!
I wasn't using Quick Reply, I wasn't referring to the OP when I said 'this' - it was all about you, YOU dipseydeb!

S
 

Embob1

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Surely this would just cause the horse to refuse the jump?
as the horse would get the idea that every jump is going to hurt/scratch or whatever and not want to do it again?
It could work with some honest horses that 'will jump anything', but others would just get scared and nervous and then refuse, surely?
 

Mbronze

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[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping this is a joke, but if not I have a few comments to make.
<font color="blue">Honestly shills this is not a joke </font>
Rapping is a widespread practice, and will indeed make the horse err on the side of caution and jump higher than he perceives the pole to be. However (and this is quite a big however), horses aren't stupid, and IME, they soon learn only to jump higher when there are humans either side of the jump - not terribly practical for the showjump ring.
<font color="blue">Those are my thoughts entirely </font>
As for the holly idea - well that contravenes horse welfare, and is against the law, so if I were you I'd say you'll report them if they do such a thing. What next - setting a fire under the pole, maybe fireworks? <font color="blue"> I understand where your coming from, but they asked me for ideas and I am just trying my best to get some, before they even start this stupid pole thing </font>
As for positive suggestions;
1. If the horse is capable, but needs schooling, tell them to hire a jumping instructor who can set up exercises to improve his jump. <font color="blue"> Problem is they have a very good eventer who teaches them everything, I have suggested my sj instructor who is fabulous. Hopefully they are having a lesson with her soon and will soon change their thoughts and opinions </font>
2. If the horse isn't capable - sell the horse and buy one which is, which eliminates the need for prickly holly collection walks too. <font color="blue"> I don't think they will do this </font>
3. If the jockey isn't capable - well, they're f*cked.
<font color="blue">I think they need more jumping experience, both the jockey and horse </font>
S


[/ QUOTE ]

I have tried to stay out of it but when they ask for advice I just thought someone on here could provide me with a few ideas and maybe they will take notice...might go down tonight and steel the holly leaves from the pole!!
 

Vixxy

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In my childhood I kept my 2 ponies on a SJ dealer/competition yard, the yard was quite well known back then for producing fab jumping ponies. Neither of my ponies ever got ridden by others and my sister and I never did this type of stuff. We managed at the ages of 8 and 10 yrs to break in our 4 yr old 14.1 arab with no help and get him competing and winning some also, no barbaric methods just hard work and his talent. Mum bought him for us from a dealer for £500.00 unbroken 3 yr old, he later sold for over 20k, so anything is possible if there is raw talent and loving determined young girls!

I hated though when they use to rap horses and ponies and sometimes use an electrified pole or cattle prod over fences. It was effective for the owners of the yard to turn a quick profit but I often wondered what would happen to the new owners when effects of this wore off or if horse or pony started refusing.

I am of the use a heavier pole for respect (instead of these very light plastic poles) and if that doesnt work find a horse that can do the job that you want it to, not all horse are meant to be good at jumping and realising and accepting that fact will save lots of tears and heartache allround.

I am glad that I now have my own yard in adult life and no longer have to stand by and watch stuff I do not agree with, the sad fact is I was involved with many top sjumping yards at that time (80's and early 90's) and rapping was normal, which is very sad.

I think they should get some help from a showjumping trainer or sell horse.
 

Mbronze

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[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping this is a joke, but if not I have a few comments to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly shils, i wouldn't joke about something like this, I totally agree with all your points. That is why i brought it up, if there are any schooling techniques that people think would help a dangly legged horse. I would be grateful to receive them because i am really worried and concerned.
 

Shilasdair

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I have more suggestions;
1. Work on flatwork
2. Ride grids
3. Use fence design to teach the horse to be more careful - i.e. apex jumps etc.

And tell them that the FEI considers rapping, holly leaves, and spiky boots an abuse of the horse....threaten to report them.
S



From www.fei.org:
2. ART 520 ABUSE OF HORSES AND DANGEROUS RIDING - add the following in the list of definitions of dangerous riding and abuse of horses:
- rapping
- riding an exhausted horse
- excessive pressing of a tired horse
- riding an obviously lame horse
- excessive use of whip and/or spurs (see para.2 below)
- dangerous riding
- riding in an unsafe way or loosing control of the horse
- Series of dangerous jumps
 

Mbronze

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Thanks S, IMHO I think they should work on his canter, as i always find a good quality canter improves my girls jump immensely.
I have a wonderful sj instructor, who i really want to introduce them to,with any luck she will be an enormous help to them as she was to me.
I'll remind them about the FEI rules, may put them off as i honestly don't think that they think they are doing anything wrong. Hence, I was quite shocked when they told me about the wrapping and holly leaf pole!!
 

DipseyDeb

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You hope I was joking?????


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes!
I wasn't using Quick Reply, I wasn't referring to the OP when I said 'this' - it was all about you, YOU dipseydeb!

S


[/ QUOTE ]
Well in the that case......
 

TS_

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Making a V shape with two poles leaning on the pole of the jump helps horses to snap up their front legs and get a bit more air.
So if they put a straight bar up and then get two poles and to begin with put them a little apart and gradually put them closer together.
 

sye777

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If they need some evidence on what "rapping" and other barbaric measures will do to scar their horse both mentally and physically then tell them to come visit me and I will happily show them one of my boys.
Words that i would like to use I am unable to as I dont wish to offend!
If they need the horse to jump better either pay for some instruction or pay for a horse capable of what they expect.
 

Mbronze

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[ QUOTE ]
If they need some evidence on what "rapping" and other barbaric measures will do to scar their horse both mentally and physically then tell them to come visit me and I will happily show them one of my boys.
Words that i would like to use I am unable to as I dont wish to offend! <font color="blue">I understand its such a horrible topic i've brought up, I just wanted some suggestions that i know people will have that will work better than what they are resorting too </font>
If they need the horse to jump better either pay for some instruction or pay for a horse capable of what they expect.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">I believe the horse is capable i just think they are rushing it and expecting it to be as good sj as it is xc </font>
 

Mbronze

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Thanks ever so much, that article is the kind of thing they need. Will print off and show them. Thanks again, I'm made up you found this
 

Shilasdair

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[ QUOTE ]
I just found this article about the V of poles I mentioned, you could print it off and show them if they won't listen to you.
http://www.yourhorse.co.uk/Improve-your-...Knocking-poles/

ETA sorry shils didn't know there was name for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You described it beautifully - I was too lazy to!
It's a great jump for unseating smart ass clients if you're teaching too (ah, the sins of my youth)

S
 
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