ho hum.. the joys of not having shoes on after a long time being shod

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blood_magik

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oldie isn't coping very well without them. he had them off on Friday and we managed a quick hack today but he's finding off-road quite sore and is rather choppy.

anything I can do to help or do I admit defeat and phone the farrier?
 
Agree try some boots. When mine had his removed he was either stood on grass, level pavement or his stable (full deep litter shavings). Best to get some boots and avoid stoney ground to give your horse time to adjust :)

Just takes time for the hoof to harden.
 
Its only Monday, he may need a bit longer to adjust before he is totally comfortable without them, especially as he has probably worn shoes for years.

Have you got his diet right, or some boots if he is having trouble on stony ground.
I have fairly recently taken shoes off of a 33 year old he wore shoes all his working life, so 28 years, he is doing well on grass and in the school but is still taking the odd short step across stones now the ground is wet again, he was fine when it was dry.

Give him time he will be better off in the long run.
 
He will need a while for his feet to adapt to being without shoes. You're going to need to help him build the strength over a while. Doesn't mean no work though, just taking account of what surfaces are ok for him and working with that. Think of his feet as like an unbacked 4 year old - weak and needing work to develop!

Diet is first port of call, though will obv take a while for the benefits to show in a better quality hoof. Diet is pretty standard stuff, low sugar and starch and prob a mineral balancer (there aren't many horses that are able to be comfy out of shoes without this support), if he needs his weight keeping up then microionised linseed and copra are feet/horse happy calories!

In the mean time pop boots on, infront may well be enough to help your boy be more comfortable. They allow the hoof to grow stronger but protecting the weak frog and sole. Thesaddleryshop is just ace for boots, I love easyboot gloves, but what works best will be the boots that fit your boys hoof shape the closest. They have info on how to measure and sizing charts. They are v helpful if there is plain old too much choice too!
 
diet-wise, he's on hifi senior, Alfa-beet and DH 16+.
we've just started the 16+ because he's looking a little thin and the grass isn't great. he was on spillers slow release before.
I've also just moved him to a new field with better grass.

I'm trying to avoid stony ground as well so we'll stick to the roads for now.
I'm also using kevin bacon grease on him.

I'm open to suggestions :) all of my previous horses have needed shoes.
 
I'd swap the 16+ for micronised linseed - 500g per day put weight on my impossible-to-hold-weight TB. Also add salt - work up to about 2 tablespoons per day.

Some horses can't tolerate alphalpha, so you could consider switching to speedibeet instead. Also a decent mineral supplement will help (Equimins META balance, Pro hoof or the Forage Plus balancer are all good).

It's only been a few days, so give it time :). And in the mean time, I would avoid riding on surfaces he finds difficult, or invest in some hoof boots.
 
If cost is not a concern, I would boot all round to start. If it is, then I'd boot in front and see how you go.

ETA: Pads can also be helpful to start with.
 
my farrier is great..
I did say to him to leave the shoes on if he didn't feel J would manage without.

he didn't answer his phone so hopefully he'll phone me back when he gets a chance. :)
 
blood_magik said:
oldie isn't coping very well without them. he had them off on Friday and we managed a quick hack today but he's finding off-road quite sore and is rather choppy.

anything I can do to help or do I admit defeat and phone the farrier?
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I think you should have his shoes put back on. A horse of his age may take a long time to become comfortable to hack out and it sounds as though it would not be right for you to have to wait. Shoes may be a better solution for both of you unless you took them off for a particular reason.
 
Ebony would always be a bit footy no matter how long she'd been barefoot, the stones always got her, she was also flat footed which didn't help! But then once che was on the right diet I didn't need boots or keratex, suddenly my tbx was as sure footed as a mountain goat. Stick with it, get the building blocks right and the rest will come great, a week really isn't long enough for the feet to adjust
 
I took his shoes off because he's in very light work at the moment due to his tendon injury. we're only walking for 35 minutes at the moment and most of our hacking is on the roads.
it he does come sound, he won't be jumping so I thought he wouldn't *need* shoes for what we would be doing.

I'll have a talk with my farrier when I get hold of him.
obviously I don't want J to be uncomfortable.
 
I have a 27yr old wb x tb who is barefoot with the most amazing rock crunching feet! cut out as much sugar as possible from your horses diet and give it time! a few days is not enough for a horse to transition from shod to unshod! I would recommend swapping 16+ to allen and page veteran vitality and feeding 500g of linseed per day (as mentioned before) diet plays a HUGE factor in a horse being barefoot successfully, sadly a lot of owners are not willing to give the horse the time to transition thinking it is an over night thing (and im not aiming that at you!) and find it's easier to stick shoes back on as the answer
 
Give him chance, they've only been off for a couple of days!

Look at diet (you're feeding Alfa-Beet - does that contain alfalfa? I think that made my horse footy), add things like Yea-Sacc, brewers yeast and magox to his diet. Look at the surfaces you are working on - did you take him along stony tracks or ask him to do too much, too soon? Grass can make horses footy - maybe a new field with loads of grass isn't the best thing for him? You could leave him on the poorer paddock with adlib hay. Also add linseed to his feed, good for condition.

But don't expect miracles within a couple of days! If someone took your shoes away and expected you to carry on as normal, would you be able to? I doubt you'd be skipping down the road two days later.
 
Alfa beet is like sugarbeet but low starch. it's supposed to be safe for lami-prone horses?

the field he was in is basically a bog now - the mud was above my ankles so he's gone in one that drains better until his normal one dries out but I will keep a close eye on him and if needs be, move him to one that's been grazed down.

mag-ox he's already getting. I'll have a look at brewers yeast and micronised linseed :)
 
I've just got my boy back from Rockley and he's on unmolassed sugar beet, micronised linseed, salt, pro balance plus, mag ox and a handful of copra meal to make it all palatable. I stupidly didn't have all this in place before he came home last Wednesday and between riding him out Thursday when he was comfortably rock crunching over stones and taking him out yesterday when he was stumbling over the same surface I know the lack of minerals have made the difference.

Diet really does seem to be the most important thing so I'd suggest you put the shoes back on until you can get him on the right diet for a few weeks and then try again if you still want to.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :) x
 
I recommend you buy a copy of feet first by Nic Barker to get your brain round it the diet needs to addressed before you remove the shoes and you may well need to soak hay and restrict grazing during the day especially during this timeof year I have three without shoes and with all of them they had there shoes removed and work was started in hand ie I lead them about on different surfaces at first
It's a lot to expect an old horse to go staight to being ridden.
 
Gosh, I was expecting my barefoot transition to take MONTHS not days! :o I think you'll get there but you probably wont be hacking for a while :)
 
He can't go barefoot without any help.

You need to support him with diet.

Fast Fibre/unmolassed beet/unmolassed hay chaff are all safe to use.
Older horses and those at rest need fibre for calories rather than cereals and starch.
Micronised linseed for omega oils.
One of the recommend hoof mineral supplements (see many previous posts for advice). Added vitamin e is a desirable feature for an oldie.

Hoof boots with pads are necessary to provide protection for his weak hooves and internal structures until a few months have passed at least.

No one here would suggest feeding as you always have, pulling the shoes off, going off on a merry hack and then wondering why said horse is sore.
He wasn't the one who put the shoes on in the first place - he needs your help to fix his hooves now (and therefore tendon). It's unfair to expect him to do it all alone.

If you can't/don't want to change his diet and management then put the shoes back on for his comfort :)
 
hmm it is sounding like the shoes will have to go back on, at least for a while until I can sort his diet.

I've never had a horse barefoot before so please excuse my ignorance :)
 
blood_magik said:
hmm it is sounding like the shoes will have to go back on, at least for a while until I can sort his diet.

I've never had a horse barefoot before so please excuse my ignorance :)
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Me neither, let me say it's definitely not the easy thing that some people think it is. Trying to get environment etc right is the hardest thing for us and TBH like you, if we can't get it right (and there's nothing more sinister going on) then horse will go back into shoes! We're 6months down the line and still not right!
 
Having taken them off Id stick with it for a while but longline on roads so he hasnt got ur weight as well, or only ride on soft surfaces.

Give it chance and dont panic and reshoe immediately - give his brain and body chance to catch up!
 
It's kind of obvious now that the people on my yard don't really know how to manage a horse without shoes because no-one has mentioned changing his diet or using hoof boots.

Thanks for all the input - I've obvious got a lot of reading to do before I make a decision
 
blood_magik said:
hmm it is sounding like the shoes will have to go back on, at least for a while until I can sort his diet.

I've never had a horse barefoot before so please excuse my ignorance :)
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He'll still be footy when you take shoes back of regardless of changing his diet. When horses are shod the farrier scrapes away some of the sole. Thin soles = footy horse. His feet need time to recover from being shod and get used to being bare. Why not get hoof boots for riding and leave him bare when turned out etc. That way he can continue transitioning and you can still ride him with him being comfortable.

Oh a useful forum for advice etc is http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/

it's a forum and everyone on there interested in barefoot and you get some very good advice. I still go on there now after nearly 2 years of having my lad barefoot :-)
 
:D Do you think the Barefoot Taliban just bang on about diet for the fun of it ;)

If we eat *crap* we get heart disease.
Horses do not get heart disease - it all affects their hooves instead.
Think of it like your horse is heading towards a heart attack and needs a special diet to repair the damage - like my uncle and his dodgy heart. :)
 
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