Honest advice on situation please.

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shadowboy

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I have been around dogs since I was 14 but would not consider myself to be as experienced with dogs as I am horses- as horses are my passion. I have owned German Shphards and English Springers. We took on an Alaskan Malamute as we wanted an older dog that was happy to be home alone for 6-8 hours a day 3/4 days a week. We were told that the dog we took on was not great with female dogs but had lived with males and was walked out with other dogs without issues. We were told she would growl at other strange dogs but had not ever attacked or bitten others. For the last month I have had no issues other than growling and her being moody at some- but not all dogs we met. On friday I had a dog trainer over for 2 hours to do some behaviour training with us and to do a professional assessment of her- she came to the conclusion that she is not an aggresive dog.

Today we had a horrid situation. We were getting her out of the car- she was on a lead and another dog ran up to her- out of the blue she lunged at her and pounced and basically if we hadn't of pulled her off I don't know what would have happened. Thankfully the other dog was not hurt. I have lost faith in this dog having seen such vicious behaviour and while she does not scare me one bit I don't like the idea of owning what I now percieve to be a vicious and unbalaced dog. I don't want to be responsible for what she is capable of- smething I only learnt today. We are not sure if dogs can be trained out of this behviour or if this dog needs to be pts. I know the second option sounds drastic but as we continued on our walk we passed a house with two dogs behind a fence- she just lunged at the fence snarling- again behaviour I had not seen. I wonder if it is too late for a 7 year old dog to be taught other dogs should not be treated this way or is it possible. I live in the middle of the country- where it seams very few pwople put their dogs on leads- so I am worried someones beloved pet will come near us and be savaged. What would you do? Keep her and find training from a specialist? Get her rehomed- (but I dont want her to be a burden to a rehoming centre) or get her PTS?

Please help I am in tears not knowing what to do for the best.
 
You were obviously very shaken by this incident and I have sympathy for you in that respect, but to label a dog as vicious and unbalanced from one incident suggests that this is most definitely not the right dog for you IMHO

I do not think the dog needs to be PTS, I think the dog needs to be rehomed to an experienced dog owner, preferably one who has had Alaskan Malamutes before.

If another dog came running up to my old lurcher when he was on a lead then he would growl and become very defensive but he was neither vicious nor unbalanced, and luckily he wasnt the size and weight of an AM either
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Sounds like she was reacting to a rude dog invading her space.
I would not label her a vicious dog in any circumstances, Loco our malamute bitch, when faced with a rude dog who invades her space will growl if the dog persists she will try and remove herself from the situation but then she is off lead the majority of the time and therefore does not feel as threatened when faced with this type of situation, if she is on lead we will remove her from this kind of situation.
I would label this as an unfortunate accident and in no way should she be put to sleep, maybe you could meet up with some other malamute owners in your area and they could work with you and her and you could find out more about the breed.
If you let me know where abouts you are in the country I could point you in the right direction

Em
 
When I got the behavioal person in previously it was because we were worried about the growlwing and i wanted new techniques to stop that which we have been using- but this was something else- she lurched at this dog plus the others behind the fence like something possessed today and im not sure I trust her- Im begining to wonder if this is why she was put up for rehoming and the real story wasnt true. My owrry is will she do it again to one of the dogs in the village? I dont think I could cope if she ingured or killed one. If we can train it out of her-fine- but I hate the idea that she could potentially hurt another animal or person? Are there any aggressive dog trainers out there that specialise in this?
 
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You were obviously very shaken by this incident and I have sympathy for you in that respect, but to label a dog as vicious and unbalanced from one incident suggests that this is most definitely not the right dog for you IMHO

I do not think the dog needs to be PTS, I think the dog needs to be rehomed to an experienced dog owner, preferably one who has had Alaskan Malamutes before.

If another dog came running up to my old lurcher when he was on a lead then he would growl and become very defensive but he was neither vicious nor unbalanced, and luckily he wasnt the size and weight of an AM either
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[/ QUOTE ] ah but she is growling/snarling at dogs that are not even coming up to her OR making eye contact
 
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ah but she is growling/snarling at dogs that are not even coming up to her OR making eye contact

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As I said, she needs rehoming to someone experienced with AMs
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I agree with Gazehound and Cyrus. You say you don't know what would have happened if you had not pulled her off but by the sound of it, you believe she would have really hurt the other dog. But nobody knows what really would have happened, what you do know, is that though how it sounded and looked, the other dog was not harmed.



From what I know of Alaskan Malamute, Greenland Dogs and similar, they need a very strong leader to keep them in check. Actually, as Cyrus mentioned, depending on how the other dog ran up to your dog, it can be done in a very rude way, from a dog language point of view and if so, her reaction could even be more or less reasonable.
In fact, due to that many people seems to not know enough about dog language without views the smallest little growl or anything towards another dog as bad behaviour, regardless if the other dog was rude first or not, due to some people believing that adult dogs must accept anything and everything from young dogs regardless of how rude the young dog behaves, as a result, we seem to have more bad mannered dogs around and not all, either well mannered or not so well mannered, other dogs tolerate that.


Then, just as you were upset over what had happened, so was perhaps even she and thereby her strong reaction towards the two dogs behind their fence?



I do believe you are experienced but having owned GSDs or English Springers is no guarantee that you are suitable to own a breed like Alaskan Malamute.
 
yes of course- we know they are not the most dog friendly and they can be same sex aggressive as well as being occasionally 'deaf' and highly trainable. We rang up the original breader of the dog in fact to find out about her litter mates etc etc. But we were told she'd not actually attack another dog just was moody towards them so we were really careful to make sure we went to places when they were not busy and didnt take her into town where there might be lots of dogs. Today we were literally parked in a cul-de-sac- so assumed non-one about as OH was getting the water bowl out the car she flipped out- snarling, all teeth and eyes- other dog was yelping and was pretty shook up- they told us we have a dangerous dog on our hands- which we were very upset about- and obviously we don't want to endanger other people- the reason pts crossed my mind was because the Dog trainer said that to be a dangerous dog all the dog needs to do is make someone feel threatened- which she obviously did. Perheps she does need to go to a better home- and maybe they are better at dealing with this sort of problem. I would far rather that than she stayed with us and hurt a local village dog because we did something wrong- I would hate to be responsible- but if she can be sorted by training we are willing to go for that.
 
Thanks spudlet- I spoke to these folks via email about mals- they were really good before. I'll see if they know of any breed specific trainers in the area tomorrow. Thnks- for reminding me about them!
 
we are attending one tomorrow- but the trainer wanted to see us at home to assess if we were allowed to attend- she said they don't normally allow aggressive dogs because it make the other owners uncomfortable. I paid £120 for the privalage of a two hour assessment. If she doesnt behave though we have to leave apparently and after todays antics im worried we will get kicked out of here (www.tasleydogtrainingclub.co.uk) all I wanted was to follow the advice of peeps from a post I made about 3 weeks ago which recommended the training
 
If I see another dog run straight towards my dogs the way you first described, I jump in front of my dogs and tells the other dog off and if the owner says anything, they will get some words of truth from me. All dogs doesn't love other dogs, if they ask if their dogs can say Hello to my dogs it is one thing, but though my dogs are 100% lovely I decide who they are allowed to say Hello to. They could have lice, be in season or whatever. Maybe I hate Greyhounds and can't stand the thought of one getting near my lovely dogs (I don't and my three dogs bestest of friends outside the family is 2 Greyhounds) but as another example.

If they had been responsible and not allowed their dog to get close to your dog without your permission, their dog would not have been shook up!

Maybe it was shook up becasue it has been allowed to get away with its bad manners and now finally had a word of truth told to him/her of your Alaskan Malamute?

Yelping could = that hurt or that almost hurt but it could also = OMG I'm sorry I forgot my manners, sorry please don't hurt me! or it could be used as in the example below.


Once waiting in the vets waiting room, a Grand Danois came in and surrounded by strange dogs and in such a place, he drew in air and began growling because he felt insecure. My Jonna, who was only around 1 year old then and quite close to him <u>though he had not seen her</u>, certainly saw him and to be on the safe side she yelped = OMG you're scaring poor little innocent me! Which inflated the Grand Danois in a nanosecond and looking as if he thought he had just comitted a horrible offence, he followed his owner through the room and sat down.
There is no way that I would have dreamed of accusing that Grand Danois owner of having a dangerous dog. My Jonna is actually very good on her dog language, she is no coward but she didn't like the situation, she wanted him to stop acting like he did and she used something she thought would succeeded in the given situation (scared but huge adult Grand Danois compared to 42 centimetres and 14 kg. Jonna).

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Keep going, stick with the training and possibly look up someone who is used to dealing with bolshy dogs, as I just said on another thread, not all behaviourists can deal with true aggression.

You've had some great advice here ^^^

I turned my boy around, he was a total nightmare with other dogs, he's been to a dog show and the beach today and he was fabby, he got his German obedience qualification and the 'passive dog' he had to ignore while it walked passed, me out of sight, had been a puppy he tried to attack a year earlier.

I went to a breed specific club, where there were plenty of steady dogs with experienced owners where he could meet, sniff, in a controlled atmosphere and yeah, I did have to go a bit banzai on his ass sometimes - not abusive, but HEY! Stop this nonsense, I am in charge and that dog is not going to hurt me or you - but it was by being weak and letting him think he needed to protect me in the first place that was how he got so bad in the first place.

They key thing is your attitude - if you tense up when you see another dog coming, which is totally understandable, you are doomed already because you will have put her on the alert.

ETA - my dog does also not tolerate other dogs running up to him right in his face (or backside
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) any introduction he does have has to be controlled and on the terms of both humans, not when either dog feels like it. Anything else is just rude, in our eyes
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As already mentioned by what you describe, she does not like being threatened herself or strange dogs invading her space, if a dog came marording up to my akita when I first got her, she would have took it's head clean off.....she still would if I where not present, and if someone who's dog ran up to mine, said my was dangerous and need to be pts, I would reply with "u are an idiot and should not own a dog" if u cannot control it, mine is on a lead for a reason"

If the dogs where going at the fence, then basically they where being defensive as she was only they where behind a fence and she was on a lead, so the same could apply for them too.

I don't not believe a dog that makes someone feel threatened is dangerous
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my rotti frightens the crap out of people and they feel very threatened by her, and she is doing nothing at all....she is just a rotti and many people are scared by them.

What she needs from you is confidence and guidance, a hell of a lot of dogs will be defensive when on a lead and being approached by another regardless of their intentions, they are restricted on a lead and have no way to avoid the invasion of their space, there is therefor no flight....only fight!

You need a good trainer to help you to socialise her with dogs, ones of the non threatening calm variety...I take on severely aggressive dogs, akitas, shepherds staffs, and have succesfully intergrated them within a calm pack and taught them to accept the presence of other dogs, however I cannot control stupid dog owners that don't control their dogs.
 
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Keep going, stick with the training and possibly look up someone who is used to dealing with bolshy dogs, as I just said on another thread, not all behaviourists can deal with true aggression.

You've had some great advice here ^^^


They key thing is your attitude - if you tense up when you see another dog coming, which is totally understandable, you are doomed already because you will have put her on the alert.

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yeah some peeps have given some great pointers- but others have also pointed out that we might not be good enough dog owners for her- and I'd rather not 'ruin' the dog if Im not good enough. Will look for some proper trainers- but you have given me heart knowing that your dog has been 'turned around' and is now good with others.
 
thanks CAYLA - its good to know that these dogs can be helped as I would be beside myself if she caught/injured someones dog! Do you know any people that you could recomemnd who deal with such dogs - as you seem to have good knowledge and contacts
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You won't ruin her, you are good enough - it is not even about being good enough, it is about you having the confidence to be able to give her confidence, if that makes any sense - give it time, she hasn't been with you that long, there were plenty of times when I thought about throwing in the towel but fingers crossed, you will get there x
 
I think you need to boost your confidence, you don't tolerate any growling, you are the leader, if anybody growls at anybody it is you! Put on her a Halti, choke chain and harness all at once, if you feel you need it to have control. Treat her as if she is a little puppy, wash her bottom, hand feed her, comb her fur, tell yourself that she is a little puppy that you have to make all the decisions for.

And if this dog club is not experienced enough to help you, find one that is! Okay, hypothetically if Cayla, after meeting you both in person told you that it is a lost case, then that is one thing but I don't know the people on this club and I know that not all dog clubs in Sweden really knows how to handle anything else than Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and similar.
 
To give you some confidence whilst you address this issue would you consider muzzling her whilst out walking? As well as being a physical restraint, a muzzled dog can be enough to stop even quite dumb owners allowing their precious darlings to go steaming up to yours....
 
we wondered about this- but haven't done so for a specific reason- the dog trainer told me it antagonises the aggressive dog and makes them feel even more vulnerable and hence they act in a more aggressive manner. Not sure if there is any truth in it now
 
Oh I reckon you could be a damn good owner for her I just bawked a bit when you mentioned possibly having her PTS, I`m a little sensitive when it comes to mooties lol lol
She looks very happy with you in the pics you posted the other day.
I`m looking forward to hearing about her progress and yours, they are an amazing breed and so so worth it
 
I never muzzled my fella, because it would have been taking the control away from me - I didn't want to lull myself into a false sense of security - it would have been a metal, leather, plastic thing stopping him from actually connecting with another dog, not me or my vigilance, strength, voice.

Just my opinion, and I agree a dog that feels 'curtailed' would probably get frustrated easier. It would be hard for other dogs to read her facial signals too, I'd wager.
 
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thanks CAYLA - its good to know that these dogs can be helped as I would be beside myself if she caught/injured someones dog! Do you know any people that you could recomemnd who deal with such dogs - as you seem to have good knowledge and contacts
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Where abouts are you?
 
You are an astounding 4 hours from me
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so my offer of help would be useless
But the post above re aggression shropshire, there are behavioursits mentioned in that..obs I could not recommend, as I don't know them, but they are being recommended...lol
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yeah some peeps have given some great pointers- but others have also pointed out that we might not be good enough dog owners for her- and I'd rather not 'ruin' the dog if I'm not good enough. Will look for some proper trainers- but you have given me heart knowing that your dog has been 'turned around' and is now good with others.

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In case that was how you interpreted it, I did not intend to say that you are categorically not a good enough dog owner for her, it is just that I like a lot of breeds and I think that I am a good owner of my Finnish Lapphunds but for me, it still does not mean I think I would be able to live with/own a dog of just anyone of all the other breeds in the world. Hence what I said about that only because GSD and Springers was suitable, Alaskan Malamute might not be.

Especially since it sounded as if you had lost your confidence in yourself to control her and if so, I think you can agree about this, it is not the best breed to own if you loose confidence in yourself. I believe that an Alaskan Malamute needs a strong leader or they will take care of things/the situations themselves, however if you can find a boost in e.g. CaveCanem's post, and get your confidence back, then you can still be a suitable owner for your dog.




I saw a documentary some years ago about a year with the Danish Royal family, the crown prince was in Greenland and was out with a sled + Greenland Dogs, at a stop one dog tried to ''tell'' the dog next to it that it didn't like something about the other one, the ''ordeal'' sounded quite terrible but the crown prince who was the one standing closest, reacted instantly and gave the offending dog one kick with his leg (not aiming and kicking the hardest he could, without more just a reflex kick) which separated the dogs, before grabbing it by it scruff and telling it that that was enough. The owner of the dogs and the other Greenlanders was so impressed and almost congratulated the crown prince for his knowledge of Greenland Dogs!

If he instead had done as some fluffy bunny-huggers might have wanted and instead stood beside the dogs saying ''Naughty dog, stop that now'', that dog would not have listened one bit. But then those Greenland Dogs have not been bred for their ability to socialize with <u>all</u> other dogs no matter what and where, they are bred to pull a sled and survive in the harsh climate. And they tend to not listen to someone who does not act as if they believe they are in control.




The trick is that you don't need to know what to do at all times, as long as you <u>act</u> as if you believe that whatever you do is right. You can beat yourself up for your stupidity later if you make a cock up but never then and there, because the important thing is not that you always are right, <u>the important thing is that you make her believe that you always knows best, that you can handle everything and that you don't tolerate any nonsense</u>.


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